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What tier is WW2 in this game?

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I am curious why the Yamato is tier X and has to fight post WW2 ships and many imaginary ships.

Is there is posted Wargaming guideline for ship tiers vs historical ship usage? It seems vague!

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This game's tiers, and gameplay for that matter, have only minor coincidental resemblance to anything remotely resembling history or reality. 

It can be a lot of fun, but historical, it ain't. The sooner one realizes that, the less angst and the more fun one experiences, imo.

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T4 to T9 with Yamato and Gearing as the only valid T10s. Midway commissioned late in the war but never fought. Montana was cancelled. Most ships above T8 in the German and T6 Russian lines never existed except on paper. The RN real-life BBs and cruisers stop at Vanguard and Edinburgh, Monarch was a design exercise, and only 4 T9 Battle-class DDs saw any real wartime service. The Darings, while designed during the war, are postwar ships. The French lines have a significant number of ships that did not exist. Same for Italy. This is, after all, an FTP arcade game designed to make you spend money on pixel ships...

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World War 2 starts with the tier 3 Tenryu (IJN Cruiser) that sunk a New Orleans class cruiser at the Battle of Savo Island.

We're talking FRONT LINE units.  Also early on was the Tier 4 Clemson class destroyers that served in both the Atlantic and Pacific in front line use.
The tier 3 Wickes destroyers were lend-leased out for secondary duties, such as escort and suicide bombing French dry docks.

The TIER 1 boats were patrol craft in WW2.  The USS Erie actually had a floatplane (but no launcher).

So

Tier 1 had a lot of WW2 boats.
Tier 2 was pretty much scrap metal and barely made it into WW1 let alone WW2.
Tier 3 was mostly scrap metal or secondary ships with a few notable exceptions of upgraded ships (Tenryu and Vampire)
Tier 4 ships were upgraded.  Most  were secondary, but a few were front-line at the beginning of the war.
Tier 5 has a larger percentage as front-line combatants at the beginning of the war.  Some stayed front line throughout the war, like the Kongo Class.
Tier 6-7 is where we find most of the older pre WW2 ships that served throughout the war as front line.
Tier 8 is where we start to see ships manufactured and launched DURING WW2.
Tier 9 and 10 are ships designed immediately before or during WW2.  Some, like the Yamato, Midway, Fletcher, and Gearing made it into hardware, while most others were vaporware.

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37 minutes ago, hammer_1 said:

I am curious why the Yamato is tier X and has to fight post WW2 ships and many imaginary ships.

Is there is posted Wargaming guideline for ship tiers vs historical ship usage? It seems vague!

Typically, ships that fought in WW2 go from 4-10. 

The tiering is more intended to be a timeline within the line, and to have ships comparable in power.

In game terms, nobody quite has as powerful a "real" BB as Yamato. 

The only solution would be to artificially buff some ships to have T10 power.

The other problem is WW2 itself. The war (and how it progressed) is what made many of the ships "post war". A number of them were designed, and laid down just prior to, or in the early stages of the war, and situations beyond the scope of this game halted progress. For example, the Russian ship Chapayev was launched just prior to the German invasion, but due to the siege of Leningrad, and the resource requirements of the ensuing war, plus necessary reconstruction of the nation, she wasn't commissioned until 1950.

Most of the post-war ships have similar stories. It's no different than a lot of the tanks in WoT.

WG basically assumes that, if a ship was designed, the nation could, in a vacuum, build it in the intended timeframe.

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21 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Typically, ships that fought in WW2 go from 4-10. 

The tiering is more intended to be a timeline within the line, and to have ships comparable in power.

In game terms, nobody quite has as powerful a "real" BB as Yamato. 

The only solution would be to artificially buff some ships to have T10 power.

The other problem is WW2 itself. The war (and how it progressed) is what made many of the ships "post war". A number of them were designed, and laid down just prior to, or in the early stages of the war, and situations beyond the scope of this game halted progress. For example, the Russian ship Chapayev was launched just prior to the German invasion, but due to the siege of Leningrad, and the resource requirements of the ensuing war, plus necessary reconstruction of the nation, she wasn't commissioned until 1950.

Most of the post-war ships have similar stories. It's no different than a lot of the tanks in WoT.

WG basically assumes that, if a ship was designed, the nation could, in a vacuum, build it in the intended timeframe.

Thanks, but the solution to me is to move Yamato down to tier 8 with the Kaga etc. She was formidable and so be it! Having the Yamato fight post war ships seems unreal to my historical mind anyways... she would still sometimes fight them in MM as would my WW2 BBs.

In general I think WW2 ships range is 6-8 but IS IT A PUBLISHED GUIDELINE?

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47 minutes ago, CapnCazuul said:

This game's tiers, and gameplay for that matter, have only minor coincidental resemblance to anything remotely resembling history or reality. 

It can be a lot of fun, but historical, it ain't. The sooner one realizes that, the less angst and the more fun one experiences, imo.

Thank you, that idea that they are pushing History in this game is EXTREMELY loose.

And it IS an Arcade game, NOT a simulator

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29 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

The other problem is WW2 itself. The war (and how it progressed) is what made many of the ships "post war". A number of them were designed, and laid down just prior to, or in the early stages of the war, and situations beyond the scope of this game halted progress. For example, the Russian ship Chapayev was launched just prior to the German invasion, but due to the siege of Leningrad, and the resource requirements of the ensuing war, plus necessary reconstruction of the nation, she wasn't commissioned until 1950.

It gets even more complicated when you compare Amagi and Vanguard. Amagi was laid down in the early 1920s before the Washington Treaty forced her conversion to a carrier (and then she was wrecked by an earthquake before completion), while Vanguard wasn't even started for another 20 years. Then there are Richelieu and Jean Bart. They are sister ships, but Richelieu joined and fought on the Allied side as a completed ship, while Jean Bart actually fired her guns in anger for Vichy France as an uncompleted ship in a dockyard but wasn't completed until well after the war. 

3 minutes ago, hammer_1 said:

that idea that they are pushing History in this game is EXTREMELY loose.

MOST of the ships, including the paper ones, got as far as advanced design study or blueprint stage. Some of the paper ones got as far as being ordered, and a few (e.g. Lion, Graf Zeppelin) were laid down or even floated-out but never finished. Part of what makes this game fun for me is that I DO get to play the what-if ships, the ones which got cancelled, diverted or never completed for whatever reason, or play historical built-in-steel ships against opponents they would normally not have faced (because they were on the same side in the war).

Where I accept a lot of us differ is in the early design study proposals that WG takes a look at and extrapolates into how they might have served (e.g. Constellation), or in the straight-out creations (I'm not sure there are serious design studies extant for Smolensk or the upcoming Kearsarge, for instance). My call on that is if it's fun and useful, and particularly if it can be had for a freely-available currency (coal, steel, FXP etc.), I'll get it.

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2 hours ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

T4 to T9 with Yamato and Gearing as the only valid T10s. 

Why is Shimakaze not valid?  She entered service in 1942.....

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45 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

Why is Shimakaze not valid?  She entered service in 1942.....

Same for Somers

2 hours ago, hammer_1 said:

Thanks, but the solution to me is to move Yamato down to tier 8 with the Kaga etc. She was formidable and so be it! Having the Yamato fight post war ships seems unreal to my historical mind anyways...

Solution to what?

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There is no way Tiger '59 could ever be a T10 ship, even though it was made more than a decade after WW2.

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4 hours ago, hammer_1 said:

I am curious why the Yamato is tier X and has to fight post WW2 ships and many imaginary ships.

Is there is posted Wargaming guideline for ship tiers vs historical ship usage? It seems vague!

Players want variety. WG makes money by providing more ships. For in-game purposes, nations are grouped as the Allied & Axis nations of WW2.  With the scenarios becoming this game's red-headed stepchild, there is little reason to divide the nations in this manner.

There isn't any guideline, just a money trail, for historical ship usage.

FYI: I'm not blasting WG for turning a profit. I'm making the point profit outweighs history, which is why there aren't any guidelines for the historical pairing of ships in battle.

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6 hours ago, Gemlin said:

None. Your going to fight paper ship at T7+

Yeah, I'd say if you're going for MOSTLY historical ships, Tier 8 or below. MOSTLY. Just grind the tiers you think has the most historical ships I guess....

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5 hours ago, hammer_1 said:

Thanks, but the solution to me is to move Yamato down to tier 8 with the Kaga etc. She was formidable and so be it!

Doesn't work that way, balance is key.

Besides, what then would you do with Amagi and Izumo?

5 hours ago, hammer_1 said:

Having the Yamato fight post war ships seems unreal to my historical mind anyways...

I agree, but that's really only the tip of the iceberg. What does your historical mind think of ships from enemy nations fighting alongside each other, and ships from the same nation shooting each other? Or Yamato having the fuel to fight battle after battle?

5 hours ago, hammer_1 said:

In general I think WW2 ships range is 6-8 but IS IT A PUBLISHED GUIDELINE?

No, there is no published guideline, because as far as this game is concerned, what actually happened IRL is irrelevant.

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6 hours ago, hammer_1 said:

I am curious why the Yamato is tier X and has to fight post WW2 ships and many imaginary ships.

Is there is posted Wargaming guideline for ship tiers vs historical ship usage? It seems vague!

You're going by the historical war.  There are alternative scenarios that would have extended the war for at least a couple of years.  E.g. Yamato vs. Montana might well have happened. Paper ships might have been built.

At the end of the day, the willing suspension of disbelief is important to all games.

 

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6 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

You're going by the historical war.  There are alternative scenarios that would have extended the war for at least a couple of years.  E.g. Yamato vs. Montana might well have happened. Paper ships might have been built.

At the end of the day, the willing suspension of disbelief is important to all games.

 

Or consider the ships that were intended to be completed during the timeframe of WW2, but we're interrupted by the war.

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1 hour ago, kgh52 said:

For in-game purposes, nations are grouped as the Allied & Axis nations of WW2

+Svensken navy

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3 hours ago, black_hull4 said:

+Svensken navy

Okay, plus one nation left out in the cold.

 

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Actually, WG never said that this was a WWII-only game, that's a myth perpetuated by some players. Think of WOWS as a mid-20th Century warship game set in an alternate timeline where the WWII conflict stayed hot for another five years and jet engine development lagged.

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On 7/10/2021 at 9:38 AM, hammer_1 said:

I am curious why the Yamato is tier X and has to fight post WW2 ships and many imaginary ships.

Is there is posted Wargaming guideline for ship tiers vs historical ship usage? It seems vague!

Anything after t6 is basiclly fake

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1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

Anything after t6 is basiclly fake

Do you mean due to gimmicks or do you mean never built?  If the former, sure, that’s fair enough, but if you mean the latter, you’re pretty far off base.  A substantial majority of Tier VII was built in steel and, off hand, I’d guess over half of Tier VIII was built in steel.  Tier IX and X do get pretty dang never finished, paper and fantasy heavy, that is true.  Particularly Tier X.

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1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

Anything after t6 is basiclly fake

Nicholaus and Dallas would like to have a word with you..

As well as the Hermelin, Orlan, Storozhevoi, Suvorov, Ishizuchi, Myogi, Rhein, Kotovski, Okhotnik, Velikiy, Loewenhardt, Weser, Vasteras, Izmail, Budyonny, and De Grasse, 

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As mentioned, WoWS isn't really a WW2 naval game so much as it is a naval game covering roughly 1900 - 1950. Most focus in on the higher tiers though which is pretty much all late WW2 or just post war.

If you look at the various tiers, they mostly fall into certain categories but there are exceptions since the tiers are really more for balance than any sort of Temporal sorting. It's just that most navies mostly kept abreast of naval technology changes and came out with warships of similar power at roughly the same 5-10 year spread. 

Tier 1 is mostly 30s and 40s escorts or patrol boats.

Tier 2 roughly corresponds to 1900-1910. 

Tier 3 is generally the ships that were just entering service prior to and early in WW1. The exception is the battleships which mostly fall between 1906 and 1910.

Tier 4 is where you'll find the cruisers and DDs are mid to late WW1. The battleships on the other hand are all still pre-WW1 second generation designs and the carriers are all post WW1 early 1920s 1st gen carriers, mostly conversions. 

Tier 5 cruisers and DDs are late WW1 or ships completed or designed just after WW1 with the lessons learned. The BBs are the ships that completed just before or early into WW1. A lot (but not all) of these would survive to fight on in WW2 with various refits.

Tier 6 cruisers and DDs are interwar designs, built around 1930ish. The cruisers would also be affected by the various naval treaties. The carriers are still mostly conversions with refits (Furious) but with some purpose built designs in there as well, also from around 1930ish. The BBs are now mostly WW1 designs, commissioning ranging from just before to during to the conflict. Almost all of these would survive and fight in WW2 with the obligatory refits.

Tier 7 cruisers and DDs are also interwar designs mostly but edging close to the start of WW2. Cruisers are mostly 2nd or even 3rd gen treaty cruisers, the designers having figured out mostly the best combinations that would meet treaty limits (or how they could cheat those limits). BBs are the last generation of battleships completed just post WW1 before the Battleship Holiday that stopped most powers from building any new BBs until the mid 1930s with the exception of the KGVs which are mid-1930 designs that commissioned just at the start of WW2. Everything here would have fought in WW2 (not counting the paper designs of course). 

Tier 8 cruisers and DDs are ships coming into service just before or early WW2. Some cruisers are still constrained by treaty limits. Carriers are the final refits of the some of the bigger conversions of the 1920s but also with some of the first big purpose built Carriers from the 1930s that took the lessons learned from the earlier conversions and lighter carriers. BBs are a bit weird, they are a mix of what-if designs from the 1920s and the first real BBs to be built at the end of the Battleship Holiday, designed mid 30s and commissioning late 30s or early 40s.

Tier 9 cruisers, DDs and BBs are ships that were designed early WW2 and brought into service for that conflict, often taking lessons from the early engagements. The carriers that used to be at this tier were also in the same time frame for the most part. 

Tier 10 ships are almost all late to post WW2 ships, designed early to mid WW2 and either just got the tail end of the conflict or missed it due to construction delays cause by the war. The Yamato class ships are the oldest in this category but only by a few years, commissioning between 1941 and 1944 if you count Shinano. 

 

All of these are just rough guidelines and you'll find exceptions throughout. For example, the French tier 3 and 4 cruisers are really much later designs than most of the rest of those tiers. The Russian Tier 5 cruiser was a lot later than most off its tier mates. The Battleships designs really jump around a bit at the higher tiers, ships that were interrupted by either WW1 or WW2 or even never started construction are also all over the place.

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1 hour ago, Jemention said:

As mentioned, WoWS isn't really a WW2 naval game so much as it is a naval game covering roughly 1900 - 1950. Most focus in on the higher tiers though which is pretty much all late WW2 or just post war.

If you look at the various tiers, they mostly fall into certain categories but there are exceptions since the tiers are really more for balance than any sort of Temporal sorting. It's just that most navies mostly kept abreast of naval technology changes and came out with warships of similar power at roughly the same 5-10 year spread. 

Tier 1 is mostly 30s and 40s escorts or patrol boats.

Tier 2 roughly corresponds to 1900-1910. 

Tier 3 is generally the ships that were just entering service prior to and early in WW1. The exception is the battleships which mostly fall between 1906 and 1910.

Tier 4 is where you'll find the cruisers and DDs are mid to late WW1. The battleships on the other hand are all still pre-WW1 second generation designs and the carriers are all post WW1 early 1920s 1st gen carriers, mostly conversions. 

Tier 5 cruisers and DDs are late WW1 or ships completed or designed just after WW1 with the lessons learned. The BBs are the ships that completed just before or early into WW1. A lot (but not all) of these would survive to fight on in WW2 with various refits.

Tier 6 cruisers and DDs are interwar designs, built around 1930ish. The cruisers would also be affected by the various naval treaties. The carriers are still mostly conversions with refits (Furious) but with some purpose built designs in there as well, also from around 1930ish. The BBs are now mostly WW1 designs, commissioning ranging from just before to during to the conflict. Almost all of these would survive and fight in WW2 with the obligatory refits.

Tier 7 cruisers and DDs are also interwar designs mostly but edging close to the start of WW2. Cruisers are mostly 2nd or even 3rd gen treaty cruisers, the designers having figured out mostly the best combinations that would meet treaty limits (or how they could cheat those limits). BBs are the last generation of battleships completed just post WW2 before the Battleship Holiday that stopped most powers from building any new BBs until the mid 1930s with the exception of the KGVs which are mid-1930 designs that commissioned just at the start of WW2. Everything here would have fought in WW2 (not counting the paper designs of course). 

Tier 8 cruisers and DDs are ships coming into service just before or early WW2. Some cruisers are still constrained by treaty limits. Carriers are the final refits of the some of the bigger conversions of the 1920s but also with some of the first big purpose built Carriers from the 1930s that took the lessons learned from the earlier conversions and lighter carriers. BBs are a bit weird, they are a mix of what-if designs from the 1920s and the first real BBs to be built at the end of the Battleship Holiday, designed mid 30s and commissioning late 30s or early 40s.

Tier 9 cruisers, DDs and BBs are ships that were designed early WW2 and brought into service for that conflict, often taking lessons from the early engagements. The carriers that used to be at this tier were also in the same time frame for the most part. 

Tier 10 ships are almost all late to post WW2 ships, designed early to mid WW2 and either just got the tail end of the conflict or missed it due to construction delays cause by the war. The Yamato class ships are the oldest in this category but only by a few years, commissioning between 1941 and 1944 if you count Shinano. 

 

All of these are just rough guidelines and you'll find exceptions throughout. For example, the French tier 3 and 4 cruisers are really much later designs than most of the rest of those tiers. The Russian Tier 5 cruiser was a lot later than most off its tier mates. The Battleships designs really jump around a bit at the higher tiers, ships that were interrupted by either WW1 or WW2 or even never started construction are also all over the place.

^^^^This. 

To the OP, the man above speaks wisdom and answers your question the best. 

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