Ahskance Reacts: 2 CVs Allowed in Clan Battles?!

[Ahskance]

It's happened!  It's all downhill from here!  Cats and Dogs have overtaken Martians for rule of Orion!

Wow, it's definitely 3 AM~

So... the upcoming Clan Battle season will allow up to 2 Aircraft Carriers per 7 man team.  We're going to explore what that means, and all the implications as such.  There are Pros!  There are Cons!

Note:  Language Warning.  I doth do swears~

Raw Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NyCqO_8rlc

[Ahskance]

Also, I was requested to rank the Tier 6 CVs, so I did an outlined list/description thingy.

Note:  Language Warning.  I doth do swears~

Raw Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GojpdvWj81M

[Wolfswetpaws]

Bookmarked for later viewing.

[ArIskandir]

Nice vids. Will post more extensively later, wanna check with you the viability of double Ise comps

[Padoru_]

nice analysis!

 

[dadeoo]

7 hours ago, Ahskance said:

It's happened!  It's all downhill from here!  Cats and Dogs have overtaken Martians for rule of Orion!

Wow, it's definitely 3 AM~

So... the upcoming Clan Battle season will allow up to 2 Aircraft Carriers per 7 man team.  We're going to explore what that means, and all the implications as such.  There are Pros!  There are Cons!

Note:  Language Warning.  I doth do swears~

Raw Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NyCqO_8rlc

Its mean i not playing clan....

[iRA6E]

Good Ranking breakdown  Ahskance..  I do wonder however if the fact that you can bring two carriers together doesn't change the way that they all can be valued.  This opens up a lot of new things to think about.  Furious/Ark Royal is two that catch my eye..   Double carpet bombs stacked on a target.    The amount of fires the UK CVs loaded with signals can rain down on just about anything could be insane if stacked.  Two good CV players communicating on  cooldowns with those two could be a thing.  Not to mention that they both can deal with DDs better by miles than any other CV in the tier.      Of course dbl Ryujo cross dropping torps.. no joke for sure..  Two of those working together can make very short work of a BB without some AA support.  

[Merc85]

26 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

...........................................  Of course dbl Ryujo cross dropping torps.. no joke for sure..  Two of those working together can make very short work of a BB without some AA support.  

What BBs?

[Helstrem]

9 hours ago, Ahskance said:

Also, I was requested to rank the Tier 6 CVs, so I did an outlined list/description thingy.

Note:  Language Warning.  I doth do swears~

Raw Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GojpdvWj81M

I suspect the reason people, at least non CV player people, thought Ark Royal was going to dominate is that there is a common belief that CV's can hit anyplace on the map instantly.  Content creators like Flamu and Potato Quality frequently says stuff to that effect, including the word "instantly".  There seems to be a portion of the community that doesn't really seem to understand that while CV planes are faster, they cannot effectively teleport and so you aren't looking at instantly and slower instantly, which is still effectively instantly.  You're looking at 4-5 times faster than a DD compared to 3ish times faster than a DD when looking at, say, Ryujo compared to Ark Royal.  While 3ish times faster than a DD really is significantly faster, you also really bring a lot less pain when you get there than a surface ship can in terms of real damage and in terms of territory holding that the enemy ships have to deal with if they want to move into that part of the map.

I am not a CV main, not remotely, but every match I play a CV in there is at least some of it that I am desperately trying to get my planes somewhere and the trip is simply taking too  long.

[El2aZeR]

48 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

I suspect the reason people, at least non CV player people, thought Ark Royal was going to dominate is that there is a common belief that CV's can hit anyplace on the map instantly.

Who actually thought Ark is going to dominate? It is generally acknowledged that it isn't even the best T6 CV at least in my circles.

[Helstrem]

18 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Who actually thought Ark is going to dominate? It is generally acknowledged that it isn't even the best T6 CV at least in my circles.

Your circles are pretty rarefied, but honestly I was simply going off of what Ahskance said the expectation was. 

[El2aZeR]

8 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

Your circles are pretty rarefied, but honestly I was simply going off of what Ahskance said the expectation was. 

EU forum and multiple discord servers which include both CV and non-CV players across multiple skill levels seems pretty diverse to me, best I've ever see is that Ark may be an alternative to Ryujo which was also my opinion. Turns out I was wrong ofc.

No idea where he got that from then.

[Bandi73]

1 hour ago, Helstrem said:

I suspect the reason people, at least non CV player people, thought Ark Royal was going to dominate is that there is a common belief that CV's can hit anyplace on the map instantly.  Content creators like Flamu and Potato Quality frequently says stuff to that effect, including the word "instantly".  There seems to be a portion of the community that doesn't really seem to understand that while CV planes are faster, they cannot effectively teleport and so you aren't looking at instantly and slower instantly, which is still effectively instantly.  You're looking at 4-5 times faster than a DD compared to 3ish times faster than a DD when looking at, say, Ryujo compared to Ark Royal.  While 3ish times faster than a DD really is significantly faster, you also really bring a lot less pain when you get there than a surface ship can in terms of real damage and in terms of territory holding that the enemy ships have to deal with if they want to move into that part of the map.

That's really good  Made my chuckle..:)

[Fel0niusMonk]

11 hours ago, Ahskance said:

Also, I was requested to rank the Tier 6 CVs, so I did an outlined list/description thingy.

Note:  Language Warning.  I doth do swears~

Raw Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GojpdvWj81M

Think you might have been running a captain with Hidden Menace on Ark Royal when you checked the detection.  Base detect on Ark is 14 km; Loewenhardt is 13.1 km.

[lloyd1701]

Honestly I expect a kind of rock paper scissors meta to develop since a 2 CV team can probably whack a 1 of each team while 2 BB's just run over it. OTOH, 1 of each counters 2 BB's at that tier as the previous CB season showed since none of the BB's are particularly great.

2x Ise will either be a joke or restricted / banned in the first pass.

[Ahskance]

52 minutes ago, Fel0niusMonk said:

Think you might have been running a captain with Hidden Menace on Ark Royal when you checked the detection.  Base detect on Ark is 14 km; Loewenhardt is 13.1 km.

I literally just double checked it in game.  In port it had surface detection 11.9km.  I even did a training room to see if it was a port bug because I -knew- it was wrong...

Turns out...

I checked the commander, and it actually did have Hidden Menace selected... but my 2am brain just didn't even see it.  I was SO CONFUSED.

[Ahskance]

2 hours ago, Helstrem said:

Your circles are pretty rarefied, but honestly I was simply going off of what Ahskance said the expectation was. 

I believe the Tier 6 season happened before I started streaming.  While I knew some people, I didn't know nearly as many I do now.

In the places I did participate in, the 3 Torp Drop of the Ark was considered the thing that simply outclassed every other CV.  It's a small piece of the whole to focus on, but it was the outlier that most people seemed to cite.

Also, TNG (which I was in at the time) did a podcast on the newly arrived German CVs with guests Cableguy and Reimu, who commented on the idea around 20 minutes into the podcast.  They both cited a mix of damage, toolkit versatility, and regen.

https://anchor.fm/the-new-guys/episodes/Episode-037-How-to-KM-CV--Meet-the-JEDI--Clan-egogtl

[Ahskance]

25 minutes ago, lloyd1701 said:

Honestly I expect a kind of rock paper scissors meta to develop since a 2 CV team can probably whack a 1 of each team while 2 BB's just run over it. OTOH, 1 of each counters 2 BB's at that tier as the previous CB season showed since none of the BB's are particularly great.

2x Ise will either be a joke or restricted / banned in the first pass.

I don't think Ise is going to dominate simply because it can aerially torp things.

Things to consider:

1) Ise planes are SLOW.  Unless you're within 5-7km of something, you're lumbering to where you're going at a painfully low speed (for planes).  The entire time you're in plane mode, you aren't firing your guns.  In a 7v7, you need to be contributing.

2) Ise planes are low damage.  On average, you can expect around 6k damage per strike.  While you can achieve more, the reticle is not small so it's not reliable.

3) Any plane loss during flight is a direct reduction in damage output.  Also, the plane size of 4 means a well placed fighter consumable will forcibly latch and kill 75% of the squadron making it more worthwhile to abandon the planes and return to the BB hull.

That being said, having access to a function other Battleships do not can absolutely be used to an advantage, particularly in terms of spotting.  The initial scout run would be delayed by 2 minutes before the planes could take off, and then another 1-2 minutes while the planes are trying to fly somewhere to see something.  Still, it's nice to "Have and Not Need, instead of Need and Not Have"

[ArIskandir]

48 minutes ago, Ahskance said:

I don't think Ise is going to dominate simply because it can aerially torp things.

Things to consider:

1) Ise planes are SLOW.  Unless you're within 5-7km of something, you're lumbering to where you're going at a painfully low speed (for planes).  The entire time you're in plane mode, you aren't firing your guns.  In a 7v7, you need to be contributing.

2) Ise planes are low damage.  On average, you can expect around 6k damage per strike.  While you can achieve more, the reticle is not small so it's not reliable.

3) Any plane loss during flight is a direct reduction in damage output.  Also, the plane size of 4 means a well placed fighter consumable will forcibly latch and kill 75% of the squadron making it more worthwhile to abandon the planes and return to the BB hull.

That being said, having access to a function other Battleships do not can absolutely be used to an advantage, particularly in terms of spotting.  The initial scout run would be delayed by 2 minutes before the planes could take off, and then another 1-2 minutes while the planes are trying to fly somewhere to see something.  Still, it's nice to "Have and Not Need, instead of Need and Not Have"

I consider the double Ise to be a very attractive option because: 

* AA power 

* On demand Spoting ability with side dish of smoke flushing torps 

* Still a BB with punchy AP, plenty HP and regen 

 

[Ahskance]

6 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I consider the double Ise to be a very attractive option because: 

* AA power 

* On demand Spoting ability with side dish of smoke flushing torps 

* Still a BB with punchy AP, plenty HP and regen 

I would imagine we'll see a lot of her.  She's not a bad ship, and having access to planes is a lot of versatility which can go a long way in a reduced size team.

[jags_domain]

14 hours ago, Ahskance said:

Also, I was requested to rank the Tier 6 CVs, so I did an outlined list/description thingy.

Note:  Language Warning.  I doth do swears~

Raw Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GojpdvWj81M

You always do amazing work.

If every CC would do the work you do the community would be so much better.

[Bandi73]

 

3 hours ago, lloyd1701 said:

2x Ise will............ be.... restricted / banned in the first pass.

Oh sweet summer child ......No it won't :) Remember that they are actually sold......Ya know......WeGreed........

[Bandi73]

1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

If every CC would do the work you do the community would be so much better.

Denied.

[lloyd1701]

1 hour ago, Bandi73 said:

Oh sweet summer child ......No it won't :) Remember that they are actually sold......Ya know......WeGreed........

They banned FDR / Hak and restricted the problem cruisers for this CB season and I doubt they'll outright ban Ise but rather restric to one if they are too problematic.

[ArIskandir]

34 minutes ago, lloyd1701 said:

They banned FDR / Hak and restricted the problem cruisers for this CB season and I doubt they'll outright ban Ise but rather restric to one if they are too problematic.

I basically agree with your assesment, but I don't think they will be banned because the double Ise comp probably won't be as dominant in all scenarios. They'll probably do best against dual CV, against mixed comps it probably would be suboptimal, against dual BB/heavy comps I can't say... the spotting can be very lethal to DDs, but you are bringing less barrels to the fight.