Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
RL74

CV delayed attacks ?why?

32 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

11
Members
19 posts
6,788 battles

why not just take them all out instead of making them unplayable? i love playing cv but if youre going to make them this horrible to use as a player might as well just remove them all 

also if youre going to constantly make changes that hurt one class of ships or specific ships at least take the time to add  changes features or rewards for teamwork cuz i sure as sh!t dont see much teanwork since um let me think ... ever?

ive also noticed even more people are using add of features that are not part of this game to begin with 

why on earth would you allow people to use any add on mods that can easily be used to disguise hacks scripts whatever you like calling them

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,528
Members
4,274 posts
4,649 battles
12 minutes ago, goldenpollywog said:

I guess all the other class having to lead their target is to much to ask for cv players?

It's kinda confusing because CVs have to lead with torpedoes anyway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,772
[SR-_-]
Members
5,505 posts
53,162 battles
8 minutes ago, goldenpollywog said:

I guess all the other class having to lead their target is to much to ask for cv players?

All three plane types already had a lead to begin with.

Bombs were still subject to RNG spread.

Torpedoes were nerfed and yet those have no lead aid whatsoever like DDs.

Maybe take that lead indicator away from DDs? That should be fair.

CV players rely on their eyes and team work to be of any use to a team.

 

Please don't talk about CVs if you never played them.

Because if you did, then what you said is absolutely wrong.

I urge WG to look into remedy one way or another. But CV players probably won't complain if DD surface detection or lead indicator was removed from their precious torpedoes.

I usually shoot whether my torpedo indicator is of use or not when sailing DDs. And let me tell you, I am not going to miss the lead indicator one bit.

I play all ships. So I would know right?

 

  • Thanks 1
  • Meh 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,555
[GWG]
Members
8,018 posts
15,880 battles

Here's my chart again...

Some were nerfed more than others.

Fighter Delay - second LMB to impact        
Nation 4 6 8 10
US 3.9 4.1 4.5 4.6
IJN 4.6 4.6 4.6 4.8
RN 4 4 4 4.2
KM 2.5 2.5    
Loewenhart 2.5      
Ark Royal 3.9      
Enterprise 4.3      
Graf Zep 5      
Kaga 5.7      
Saipan (TT) 6      

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,019
[O7]
Supertester
586 posts
15,540 battles

You could take some time to re-learn how to lead with rockets. CV players had it way too easy with literal left click on DD for free damage. Now you have to put some thought into leading your target like everyone else. 

There are 2 main modpacks approved by WG, Aslains and the official Modstation. Only WG approved mods are allowed in these packs. 

Just now, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

All three plane types already had a lead to begin with.

Bombs were still subject to RNG spread.

Torpedoes were nerfed and yet those have no lead aid whatsoever like DDs.

Maybe take that lead indicator away from DDs? That should be fair.

CV players rely on their eyes and team work to be of any use to a team.

Old rockets had very minimal lead. Even if a DD saw them coming, there was little he could do but accept he is taking damage. New rockets allows DDs to try and maneuver to dodge the rockets. 

DD torp salvoes usually have at least 20s+ travel time. Upwards of 30-40s is fairly common with longer range and slower torps. On the other hand, CV attacks take ~5-10s at most from start of attack to when the rockets or torps hit. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,772
[SR-_-]
Members
5,505 posts
53,162 battles
5 minutes ago, Noshiro_ said:

It's kinda confusing because CVs have to lead with torpedoes anyway

You even lead with bombs and rockets anyway before this nerf.

 

Unless a player camps their ship, then a CV player needs no lead.

But if players think leading ordinance at a moving target with no target data is hard, then maybe they should try it?

Maybe WG should remove all target data aide from BBs, cruisers, and DDs too?

Then everyone is equal right?

Some players are unaware of this issue because they don't sail the ship.

But they need to be careful with that as WG could remove all forms of aim assist in game and make it completely rely on RNG.

The games will be longer and comical for certain.

DD players have binocular mode, let them use it old school and guess? I am sure most will be fine if they know that skills trump any targeting computer.

Imagine those cruiser players also without target data? Can they cope like CV players since the very beginning?

How about BB players?

Can they hit anything beyond 20km without any help? Or do they need to use the Force.

CV players, of which I am a part timer, using the Dark Side of the Force since day 1.

Maybe it is not about the Dark Side that is the issue? Maybe the Jedi players have weak Force power to begin with?

After all, those ship types are getting targeting computers to help them.

Darth Vader: "Your powers are weak old man."

Dark Helmut: "Don't ever barge in while I play with my dolls!"

CVs= The Force

Other ship types= The Schwartz.

Ming: " They are called DD tears, it is a sign that CVs are getting nerfed again."

*Eats raspberry toast from my Cylon toaster while watching Flash Gordon....

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,598
[PVE]
Members
10,597 posts
32,116 battles
14 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

Here's my chart again...

Some were nerfed more than others.

Fighter Delay - second LMB to impact        
Nation 4 6 8 10
US 3.9 4.1 4.5 4.6
IJN 4.6 4.6 4.6 4.8
RN 4 4 4 4.2
KM 2.5 2.5    
Loewenhart 2.5      
Ark Royal 3.9      
Enterprise 4.3      
Graf Zep 5      
Kaga 5.7      
Saipan (TT) 6      

I'm assuming the 4-6-8-10 are the tiers. If so you need to move all those premium stats to the appropriate column because I don't think any of them are T4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,438
[GWG]
[GWG]
Alpha Tester
29,211 posts
15,770 battles
36 minutes ago, goldenpollywog said:

I guess all the other class having to lead their target is to much to ask for cv players?

 

23 minutes ago, Noshiro_ said:

It's kinda confusing because CVs have to lead with torpedoes anyway

 

9 minutes ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

You could take some time to re-learn how to lead with rockets. CV players had it way too easy with literal left click on DD for free damage. Now you have to put some thought into leading your target like everyone else. 

There are 2 main modpacks approved by WG, Aslains and the official Modstation. Only WG approved mods are allowed in these packs. 

Old rockets had very minimal lead. Even if a DD saw them coming, there was little he could do but accept he is taking damage. New rockets allows DDs to try and maneuver to dodge the rockets. 

DD torp salvoes usually have at least 20s+ travel time. Upwards of 30-40s is fairly common with longer range and slower torps. On the other hand, CV attacks take ~5-10s at most from start of attack to when the rockets or torps hit. 

 

 

 

The rocket planes had to lead their target and once the attack run was started the amount of maneuvering they could do was minimal. You just had to be maneuvering even before the fighter started its run and it could really FUBAR the attack. Now depending on what CV the shot is delayed by up to 6 seconds which is an eternity allowing the DD to be anywhere but in the impact zone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,528
Members
4,274 posts
4,649 battles
10 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

You even lead with bombs and rockets anyway before this nerf.

 

Unless a player camps their ship, then a CV player needs no lead.

But if players think leading ordinance at a moving target with no target data is hard, then maybe they should try it?

Maybe WG should remove all target data aide from BBs, cruisers, and DDs too?

Then everyone is equal right?

Some players are unaware of this issue because they don't sail the ship.

But they need to be careful with that as WG could remove all forms of aim assist in game and make it completely rely on RNG.

The games will be longer and comical for certain.

DD players have binocular mode, let them use it old school and guess? I am sure most will be fine if they know that skills trump any targeting computer.

Imagine those cruiser players also without target data? Can they cope like CV players since the very beginning?

How about BB players?

Can they hit anything beyond 20km without any help? Or do they need to use the Force.

CV players, of which I am a part timer, using the Dark Side of the Force since day 1.

Maybe it is not about the Dark Side that is the issue? Maybe the Jedi players have weak Force power to begin with?

After all, those ship types are getting targeting computers to help them.

Darth Vader: "Your powers are weak old man."

Dark Helmut: "Don't ever barge in while I play with my dolls!"

CVs= The Force

Other ship types= The Schwartz.

Ming: " They are called DD tears, it is a sign that CVs are getting nerfed again."

*Eats raspberry toast from my Cylon toaster while watching Flash Gordon....

 

 

 

Torpedo lead indicators for surface ships are not comparable. Having to actually mentally process the lead by just looking at the enemy ship and thinking where the torpedo will be in the next 40 seconds is INSANE. You as a CV have to think 5 seconds in advance. It is not comparable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,772
[SR-_-]
Members
5,505 posts
53,162 battles
7 minutes ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

You could take some time to re-learn how to lead with rockets. CV players had it way too easy with literal left click on DD for free damage. Now you have to put some thought into leading your target like everyone else. 

There are 2 main modpacks approved by WG, Aslains and the official Modstation. Only WG approved mods are allowed in these packs. 

Old rockets had very minimal lead. Even if a DD saw them coming, there was little he could do but accept he is taking damage. New rockets allows DDs to try and maneuver to dodge the rockets. 

DD torp salvoes usually have at least 20s+ travel time. Upwards of 30-40s is fairly common with longer range and slower torps. On the other hand, CV attacks take ~5-10s at most from start of attack to when the rockets or torps hit. 

 

 

 

So you are saying that an object approaching you at 5 seconds is impossible to dodge? Did someone not see The Matrix?

Unless you are on qualudes, you should be able to hit the brake with full reverse, cut in or out, and accelerate again since DDs have a short engine telegraph response time. There is an upgrade stock for that and some players use that when drunk. It compensates for "I can't stop! I have DD beer goggles on and can't turn while downshifting speed to dodge!"

I mean, I can do it sober. I dodged a lot before and after the nerf from bombs. Any sudden changes in heading or speed throws off rockets before the nerf.

All WG did is make me more dangerous when I play DDs.

And I sail CVs too. I just use the rocket planes to spot the DDs instead because starting the attack is like adding a heal. Duration of spotting has gone up for me and I am getting good spot damage on DDs.

Add to that, I was already using torpedoes and bombs on DDs anyway.

Nothing is more devastating than HE bombs, but I suppose when I clip a DD with a torpedo, that health drops like pants at a porno.

One torp hit, one HE drop, and a clever spot is the new tactics.

DD players probably should have at least try to understand CV play by playing the ship.

Because I sail all the ships. I know their strengths and weaknesses.

And if a CV player knows that, then you better sink that player first.

A lot of players do play other ships. And you will find that they are a force to be reckoned with because they know their opponents bote.

If a player overspecializes, then they are vulnerable to change.

But a player that has knowledge in all ship types can and will adapt.

It is up to the player if they want to adapt. No one can make them.

But they are missing out on an opportunity to improve their game play.

That is called continuous improvement.

It is applied in industry, government, science, and the arts.

Even countries do a variation of it on their own. It comes from learning something and then building upon it. Sometimes you succeed, sometimes you don't. But eventually the hard work yields beneficial change.

Change is good when it is carefully considered for all parties involved.

But exclude a party and it is exclusive.

Change has to apply to everyone.

Captain Kirk: "These Laws have to Apply to Everyone or they mean Nothing."

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,772
[SR-_-]
Members
5,505 posts
53,162 battles
19 minutes ago, Noshiro_ said:

Torpedo lead indicators for surface ships are not comparable. Having to actually mentally process the lead by just looking at the enemy ship and thinking where the torpedo will be in the next 40 seconds is INSANE. You as a CV have to think 5 seconds in advance. It is not comparable. 

Are you saying that mathematics is hard? I do some math when firing torpedoes outside of my max range to anticipate a team turning and sailing at them. This is in any ship.

 

A CV has to look at the target ship itself before a drop and guess if a player is going to turn, stop, or sail ahead in a straight line within that five seconds.

The visual cues are the smoke from the funnel, the bow or stern wake, and the behavior observed if it is a second strike.

Players that vary their moves survive.

Players that don't, well...

So, you are saying a CV can calculate an attack with no targeting assist whatsoever within 5 seconds?

But a player that has 40 seconds to work with can't use binoculars?

I don't understand. Are you saying CV players can shoot better from the hip?🤔

Just imagine what they can do in a BB 😏scary.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,555
[GWG]
Members
8,018 posts
15,880 battles
1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

I'm assuming the 4-6-8-10 are the tiers. If so you need to move all those premium stats to the appropriate column because I don't think any of them are T4.

Should actually be a different chart.  Didn't transfer over.  Better?

 

Fighter Delay - second LMB to impact

Nation 4 6 8 10
US 3.9 4.1 4.5 4.6
IJN 4.6 4.6 4.6 4.8
RN 4 4 4 4.2
KM 2.5 2.5    
Loewenhart   2.5    
Ark Royal   3.9    
Enterprise     4.3  
Graf Zep     5  
Kaga     5.7  
Saipan (TT)     6  
Edited by AVR_Project

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,776
[RLGN]
Members
19,167 posts
35,208 battles

Ninja’d by @SteelRain_Rifleman.

Who said everything better than I could anyway.

In any case; my observation, in PvP modes and in all types of ships, is that outside unicums, who will stomp others no matter what they do; is that carriers for the most part are only as good as the target lets them be.

Two nights ago, dodging multiple attacks by two carriers in a Klas Horn. You know, a DD with no smoke? Carriers lost; too busy chasing me.

Last night. Focused again in a Gangut. Pathetic AA, a coal barge? Lots and LOTS of torpedoes...

Except I didn’t let them just sail up and torp me. Misses by WASD, misses by not armed yet, not enough hits to matter. Carriers lost; to busy worrying about me.

Oh, by the by, also fighting several enemy ships at the same time?

It’s not just a T4 thing, it’s an all tiers thing. You go out of your way NOT to try to mitigate carrier attacks, then don’t blame the carrier for waltzing up and dropping on you.

This from a person than even now thinks WG’s CV rework can go to hell. (0.8.0.)

I enjoyed RTS, and absolutely HATE the rework; but I still play as I can, and at least have a basic understanding of how the FPS carriers work, even if I can’t use them beyond maybe 30-40% effectively. (Torpies, the rest might as well not even be on my carriers.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
150 posts
14,392 battles

Because the lower skilled players can't defend against the CV and cry a river.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,772
[SR-_-]
Members
5,505 posts
53,162 battles
27 minutes ago, Ronin69 said:

Because the lower skilled players can't defend against the CV and cry a river.

It all comes down to team work. If a CV spots for you, the best way to say thanks is taking advantage of that opportunity to hit a ship that normally is sailing quietly to a cap to set up.

This is element of surprise. But it still takes observant players to sieze that free citadel or lay down that torpedo ambush earlier.
While CVs can't always go full Super Saiyan for a team, it is the preliminary moments of the match that is critical.
Spotting does in fact do more damage if brilliantly coordinated.
I spotted for some BBs this past week and they crushed red team's CV after two salvos. One from each BB that I spotted for.
I didn't have to mention what I was doing either. I just simply gave 2 BBs on my flank a darn good look. And that was all it took.
Other times, I just spot to death ships that are hiding in smoke and a dropped fighter well away from their AA is a big surprise.
Spotting DDs is just the tip of the iceberg.
Supporting cruisers that way is fun for cruiser players because they don't have to use their radar or hydro as much.
 They can use it chasing the DD down after the DD is reloading.
Timing is everything. And what is said in game to help the team should be considered. Because the damage numbers do go up with the wins and everyone eats.
Even a CV player can late game hit weaker ships. But sometimes just the spotting alone is the most dangerous.
But that all hinges on a team that sees the opportunity and capitalizes on it.
I am often in games where that seldom happens, but I can't control that. That is random.
But games I win, are entirely dependent on team work. Bar none.
I may occasionally do some Sith like Dark Force wins and occasionally crush a team. But again, I consider that a case of red team not recognizing the danger, or lack of experience.
Experience with ships of any class helps all players.
Sure, they are crying 😭. But we are in the ocean 🌊 when it happens, so few can completely tell the difference.

It's akin to farting in an outhouse. The flies that fly around and in the outhouse don't complain, unless I am doing the farting.😏

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,366 posts
3,065 battles
14 hours ago, Noshiro_ said:

Torpedo lead indicators for surface ships are not comparable. Having to actually mentally process the lead by just looking at the enemy ship and thinking where the torpedo will be in the next 40 seconds is INSANE. You as a CV have to think 5 seconds in advance. It is not comparable. 

13 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Are you saying that mathematics is hard? I do some math when firing torpedoes outside of my max range to anticipate a team turning and sailing at them. This is in any ship.

So, you are saying a CV can calculate an attack with no targeting assist whatsoever within 5 seconds?

But a player that has 40 seconds to work with can't use binoculars?

40 seconds to work with doesn't make it easier. A lot can happen in 40 seconds, even though it's a short time. The helmsman has many more options available. The 5 seconds isn't hard because there isn't a lot to do in that timespan. You don't need any aim assist.

On the other hand, I don't find it insane to lead an enemy 40 seconds in advance. It's not that hard. However, that might just be me(I play Silent Hunter 4, a subsim where torpedo leading without aim assist is routine).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
99 posts
9,437 battles
20 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

Should actually be a different chart.  Didn't transfer over.  Better?

 

Fighter Delay - second LMB to impact

Nation 4 6 8 10
US 3.9 4.1 4.5 4.6
IJN 4.6 4.6 4.6 4.8
RN 4 4 4 4.2
KM 2.5 2.5    
Loewenhart   2.5    
Ark Royal   3.9    
Enterprise     4.3  
Graf Zep     5  
Kaga     5.7  
Saipan (TT)     6  

Ok I know what everything else is but what does the "KM" and the "RN" mean?  I would think that the "KM" would mean the kriegsmarine but the "RN" IDK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,168
[WOLFG]
Members
17,141 posts
20,565 battles
11 minutes ago, Samuel_Stevens_destroyer said:

Ok I know what everything else is but what does the "KM" and the "RN" mean?  I would think that the "KM" would mean the kriegsmarine but the "RN" IDK

Royal Navy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
271
[_TKS_]
Members
588 posts
43,797 battles

Finally after 2.5 years of rocket plane abuse that never should have been introduced to the game in the first place they are finally reigning these wretched thing in 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,864
[BONKS]
Members
4,827 posts
52 battles
22 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

So you are saying that an object approaching you at 5 seconds is impossible to dodge? Did someone not see The Matrix?

22 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

The rocket planes had to lead their target and once the attack run was started the amount of maneuvering they could do was minimal. You just had to be maneuvering even before the fighter started its run and it could really FUBAR the attack. Now depending on what CV the shot is delayed by up to 6 seconds which is an eternity allowing the DD to be anywhere but in the impact zone.

Previously rockets took at most ~2 seconds to reach their target. How early the planes are spotted is completely irrelevant, the actual attack was impossible to evade barring RNG if the enemy CV just put the reticle on the ship when initiating the attack.

Now the attack is... still impossible to evade if the enemy CV has picked the lead correctly but at least they actually have to lead correctly.

So in essence yes, you have literally just admitted that leading for an additional few seconds is too difficult for you and that it was even too difficult before. Congratulations, perhaps you should consider that you deserve to fail if you cannot pull off something so simple.

Edited by El2aZeR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,555
[GWG]
Members
8,018 posts
15,880 battles
1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Previously rockets took at most ~2 seconds to reach their target. How early the planes are spotted is completely irrelevant, the actual attack was impossible to evade barring RNG if the enemy CV just put the reticle on the ship when initiating the attack.

Now the attack is... still impossible to evade if the enemy CV has picked the lead correctly but at least they actually have to lead correctly.

So in essence yes, you have literally just admitted that leading for an additional few seconds is too difficult for you and that it was even too difficult before. Congratulations, perhaps you should consider that you deserve to fail if you cannot pull off something so simple.

I do the naval battles in Co-Op..   So it's one for each branch.

So immediately, before each battle, I go into a training room and practice with the fighters so I can adjust my target lead and calibrate my brain.
Going straight into battle is no place to learn, since planes get shot down and AA tears up the planes.
Usually takes about 8 tries before I get it.  Actual battles are no place to do this.  By then, my team has lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,772
[SR-_-]
Members
5,505 posts
53,162 battles
17 hours ago, black_hull4 said:

40 seconds to work with doesn't make it easier. A lot can happen in 40 seconds, even though it's a short time. The helmsman has many more options available. The 5 seconds isn't hard because there isn't a lot to do in that timespan. You don't need any aim assist.

On the other hand, I don't find it insane to lead an enemy 40 seconds in advance. It's not that hard. However, that might just be me(I play Silent Hunter 4, a subsim where torpedo leading without aim assist is routine).

I played silent service. Same situation. I just snapshot the spread and hopefully hit that convoy. And I did really well with that. Sank my fair share of DDs that chased me too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,772
[SR-_-]
Members
5,505 posts
53,162 battles
9 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Previously rockets took at most ~2 seconds to reach their target. How early the planes are spotted is completely irrelevant, the actual attack was impossible to evade barring RNG if the enemy CV just put the reticle on the ship when initiating the attack.

Now the attack is... still impossible to evade if the enemy CV has picked the lead correctly but at least they actually have to lead correctly.

So in essence yes, you have literally just admitted that leading for an additional few seconds is too difficult for you and that it was even too difficult before. Congratulations, perhaps you should consider that you deserve to fail if you cannot pull off something so simple.

You failed to troll me is what I see 😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×