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PQ & Flamu BB Skill Update Impressions July 2021

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Quick Video Highlighting Potato Quality and Flamu's reactions to the main BB updates from the latest devblog post.

Superb game knowledge and experience apparently doesn't mean you would agree..

DevBlog: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/175

PQ Secondary Gun Change: https://youtu.be/oFfwNpg9rZI?t=562

Flamu Secondary Gun Change/FAQ: https://youtu.be/nth9l-oBoXw?t=1161

EDIT: If either request I take this down, it's down; just found their different takes entertaining.

 

Edited by Merc_R_Us
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I'm with Potato Quality on this one, the CONCEPT of improving accuracy the longer the guns fire is great, the perma-buffs (dispersion and reload) are also nice, and the changes are honestly pretty exciting and I can't wait to test it! It's nice to see that Wargaming saw fit to address the concerns regarding poor secondaries accuracy, and that they're thinking of interesting ways of applying the buffs. I have to admit, the "adjustment firing" mechanic is rather interesting to apply here.

So I think the ultimate question is, is the -35% priority target buff we ALREADY have on ISBA staying or going? 

Edited by SaiIor_Moon

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5 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

I'm with Potato Quality on this one, the CONCEPT of improving accuracy the longer the guns fire is great, the perma-buffs (dispersion and reload) are also nice, and the changes are honestly pretty exciting and I can't wait to test it! It's nice to see that Wargaming saw fit to address the concerns regarding poor secondaries accuracy, and that they're thinking of interesting ways of applying the buffs. I have to admit, the "adjustment firing" mechanic is rather interesting to apply here.

So I think the ultimate question is, is the -35% priority target buff we ALREADY have on ISBA staying or going? Flamu is saying it's added...

It is replaced:

Changed the mechanics of the bonus to the maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells fired at a priority target:

  • Activated effect: the accuracy of the secondary battery on a priority target gradually increases with the continuous firing of the secondary battery. The maximum bonus to the secondary battery from this activated effect is +50%. This can be achieved if the secondary battery was continuously firing for 45 seconds.

 

 

They specified that the mechanics is changed. And leaving the 35% would just make it over powered: 95% accuracy buff for one skill is not logical.

 

Overall, I think that PQ give a better review, even if a tad too optimistic. Flamu is fueled by drama and tend to see everything WG does as a trap.

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2 minutes ago, Karstodes said:

It is replaced:

Changed the mechanics of the bonus to the maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells fired at a priority target:

  • Activated effect: the accuracy of the secondary battery on a priority target gradually increases with the continuous firing of the secondary battery. The maximum bonus to the secondary battery from this activated effect is +50%. This can be achieved if the secondary battery was continuously firing for 45 seconds.

 

 

They specified that the mechanics is changed. And leaving the 35% would just make it over powered: 95% accuracy buff for one skill is not logical.

 

Overall, I think that PQ give a better review, even if a tad too optimistic. Flamu is fueled by drama and tend to see everything WG does as a trap.

Yeah, I'm watching both right now, but it IS as I originally thought, replacing the insta-buff on priority target. so it's worse from the get-go, but it gets much better over time...it should be interesting, honestly.

 

Yeah, I WAS thinking that leaving in the -35% buff WOULD probably be overpowered with a 50% bonus available lols! that would be even more powerful than the old Manual Secondaries XD I almost want to see how that would be, but I mean, game balance will say no to that of course, and that's fair ;P

Edited by SaiIor_Moon

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28 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

I'm with Potato Quality on this one, the CONCEPT of improving accuracy the longer the guns fire is great, the perma-buffs (dispersion and reload) are also nice, and the changes are honestly pretty exciting and I can't wait to test it! It's nice to see that Wargaming saw fit to address the concerns regarding poor secondaries accuracy, and that they're thinking of interesting ways of applying the buffs. I have to admit, the "adjustment firing" mechanic is rather interesting to apply here.

So I think the ultimate question is, is the -35% priority target buff we ALREADY have on ISBA staying or going? Flamu is saying it's added...

I'm not so sure; I like the thought of the mechanic, but the numbers seem to suck: Used to be -45%, now -35%:

soon -10% until I hit around 28 secs continuous, then I get the -35% I get now, then another 12 secs before I get the old -45% then another 5 secs before I get the magic -50%. 

I thought the old secondaries were good because I believe they assisted in combatting the most dangerous counter to a BB pushing forward in support: the smaller ships with torps. Now that smaller ship has even more of a chance of ambush as it seems he's going to have 28 secs before my guns become as effective as they are now.

 

Oh well, I look forward in seeing how it works out. :Smile_honoring:

 

Edit: Ok just looked at the Flamu vid and it seems that it is going back up to -45% and then the additional 5% (to 50%) happens over another 45 secs, now that isn't bad at all (if that is what it is about)? I think I need to wait and test lol.

Edited by _WaveRider_

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1 minute ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I'm not so sure; I like the thought of the mechanic, but the numbers seem to suck: Used to be -45%, now -35%:

soon -10% until I hit around 28 secs continuous, then I get the -35% I get now, then another 12 secs before I get the old -45% then another 5 secs before I get the magic -50%. 

I thought the old secondaries were good because I believe they assisted in combatting the most dangerous counter to a BB pushing forward in support: the smaller ships with torps. Now that smaller ship has even more of a chance of ambush as it seems he's going to have 28 secs before my guns become as effective as they are now.

 

Oh well, I look forward in seeing how it works out. :Smile_honoring:

No, it used to be -35% dispersion buff on priority target instantly applied. Now, it'll be -10% permabuff (this is nice, this affects BOTH sides, regardless of priority target...) and then the "adjustment firing mechanic" applies the -25% buff in 10s (so in 10s we get to the ISBA buff we currently have, so this part IS objectively worse) HOWEVEr, after that, we get more accuracy buffs....and with continuous fire for 35s we get to that Manual Secondaries-level of buff, which is very nice. So yeah, testing will indicate how good this ramp-up system actually is. 45s of continuous secondaries fire though....in Randoms? Hmmm. We'll have to see.

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3 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

soon -10% until I hit around 28 secs continuous, then I get the -35% I get now, then another 12 secs before I get the old -45% then another 5 secs before I get the magic -50%. 

Not really 28 seconds.  From the FAQ:

'' 25% bonus from the effect will accumulate in the first 10 seconds of continuous secondary battery firing, and another 25% - in the remaining 35 seconds. Thus a 35% bonus to the accuracy on the priority target the skill used to give before the change will get accumulated in the first 10 seconds of secondary battery firing (25% from the activated effect and 10% from the permanent effect)  ''

So basically it is 10 seconds to get to 35% overall (unless the 10% base bonus is counted as a separate bonus).  Overall it will for sure be better against cruisers. But if you succeed to get your secondaries firing on ships for 45 seconds, a DD popping out in front of you that you select as prime target will still grand you a 47.5% accuracy buff from the get go.  It will not be as ''brain dead'' as the OG manual secondaries, but if you play well you can get more DPM out of it.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

No, it used to be -35% dispersion buff on priority target instantly applied. Now, it'll be -10% permabuff (this is nice, this affects BOTH sides, regardless of priority target...) and then the "adjustment firing mechanic" applies the -25% buff in 10s (so in 10s we get to the ISBA buff we currently have, so this part IS objectively worse) HOWEVEr, after that, we get more accuracy buffs....and with continuous fire for 35s we get to that Manual Secondaries-level of buff, which is very nice. So yeah, testing will indicate how good this ramp-up system actually is. 45s of continuous secondaries fire though....in Randoms? Hmmm. We'll have to see.

:Smile_teethhappy: I just edited as you replied as I hadn't watched the Flamu vid yet.

 

Thank you, the way you explained it seems good, in fact I like it: If the DD does ambush (properly) then good on him. If the BB uses the mini-map and tries to counter the ambush, he has more time to make his secondaries work for him. Yeah, sounds good! :Smile_great:

 

*I say him a lot but Him=Her=Him (we're all part of the same community lol.

@Karstodes Thank you too! :Smile_honoring:

Edited by _WaveRider_

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If that changed up secondary battery aiming skill is as powerful as PQ hopes/think, expect WG to dial it back either in testing or shortly after it goes live.  I find it difficult to be excited by most anything WG reveals these days.

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1 minute ago, _WaveRider_ said:

:Smile_teethhappy: I just edited as you replied as I hadn't watched the Flamu vid yet.

 

Thank you, the way you explained it seems good, in fact I like it: If the DD does ambush (properly) then good on him. If the BB uses the mini-map and tries to counter the ambush, he has more time to make his secondaries work for him. Yeah, sounds good! :Smile_great:

 

*I say him a lot but Him=Her=Him (we're all part of the same community lol.

Yeah, it DOES sound promising, and honestly, I also like the -10% permabuff affecting BOTH sides. That, plus the falg, gives you a -15% perma dispersion buff, so basically the same buff ships under Tier 7 got when Manual Secondaries was a thing. Interesting! that and the reload buff, I love that being moved to ISBA, it makes the skill more worth the 4 points imo.

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2 minutes ago, landcollector said:

If that changed up secondary battery aiming skill is as powerful as PQ hopes/think, expect WG to dial it back either in testing or shortly after it goes live.  I find it difficult to be excited by most anything WG reveals these days.

tbh, I'm a bit concerned that it WON'T be as good as expected, due to requiring a whopping 45s of continuius firing time to get the full buff. I think the ramp-up time MAY need to be adjusted, but again, testing and time will tell.

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The secondary change feels like an overall nerf.  I agree with Sailor Moon 45s ramp up is a really long time.  

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3 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

Yeah, it DOES sound promising, and honestly, I also like the -10% permabuff affecting BOTH sides. That, plus the falg, gives you a -15% perma dispersion buff, so basically the same buff ships under Tier 7 got when Manual Secondaries was a thing. Interesting! that and the reload buff, I love that being moved to ISBA, it makes the skill more worth the 4 points imo.

It actually sounds like what I was after in the other thread: Back to 45% for the focused, but the other side still firing too (at normal rate).

They just changed it to the -10% disp all round and the 45% taking a little bit to get to on the focus side which then exceeds that  the longer you're brawling. I like the sound of that! :Smile_honoring:

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3 minutes ago, Rothgar_57 said:

The secondary change feels like an overall nerf.  I agree with Sailor Moon 45s ramp up is a really long time.  

Ok, so it's NOT a nerf, it's definitely a change, actually I'd argue that ultimately it's a buff. It's not an AMAZING buff, but it IS a buff. the 10s ramp-up time to ISBA levels of dispersion IS a nerf, effectively. But after that, you're just surpassing that in terms of accuracy buffs, so it is better.the perma-buffs are great, and are flat buffs, so no problems there. I AM just a LITTLE concerned about the ramp-up time (45s of continuous fire IS a long time in terms of how battles usually play out and at what ranges and stuff in Randoms) but we'll see how it goes in testing.

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Also keep in mind that the French and German secondaries got about a 20% built in accuracy buff with the captain skill rework, so unless WG removes that, which they haven't suggested doing, then French and German BBs will be able to, with current planned numbers, exceed the accuracy they had under the old pre-rework skill.

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I'll just copy and paste what I said earlier about the secondaries change, which I consider to be pretty pointless.

21 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

It's a bad idea, IMO.  If you are at a point where you need to drop a DD sooner, rather than later, due to the threat of torpedoes, improved secondary accuracy to only arrive later is kind of pointless.

"The maximum bonus to the secondary battery from this activated effect is +50%. This can be achieved if the secondary battery was continuously firing for 45 seconds."

 

45 seconds with a DD after your Battleship's behind, and only then will your secondaries get the +50% accuracy bonus?  That's way too late.  You'll be hitting "Exit to Port" before that bonus ever arrives.

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1 hour ago, Merc_R_Us said:

snip

Liked the montage, fun to watch. :cap_like:

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I'll leave all the pro-con chatter to the experts. However, I will say I did find this video very much entertaining. The difference between personalities, along with the yes-no-yes concepts, is pure comedic gold. + 1 @Merc_R_Us   :cap_win: 

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26 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I'll just copy and paste what I said earlier about the secondaries change, which I consider to be pretty pointless.

 

I'll admit, the ramp-up period concerns me, it might be better if we get say, 25% bonus RIGHT away, then the 25% bonus over time? that way we get the ISBA level quick, then as time goes on, you tighten your dispersion.

Still though, Wargaming IS looking into improving secondaries, so I AM (cautiously) optimistic about that, the permabuffs are a good addition, for sure.

Edited by SaiIor_Moon
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33 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

Also keep in mind that the French and German secondaries got about a 20% built in accuracy buff with the captain skill rework, so unless WG removes that, which they haven't suggested doing, then French and German BBs will be able to, with current planned numbers, exceed the accuracy they had under the old pre-rework skill.

Oh hey, I didn't know French BBs got that buff too, I thought it was JUST German BBs that got the 22.5% accuracy buff...

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2 hours ago, Merc_R_Us said:

 

Quick Video Highlighting Potato Quality and Flamu's reactions to the main BB updates from the latest devblog post.

Superb game knowledge and experience apparently doesn't mean you would agree..

DevBlog: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/175

PQ Secondary Gun Change: https://youtu.be/oFfwNpg9rZI?t=562

Flamu Secondary Gun Change/FAQ: https://youtu.be/nth9l-oBoXw?t=1161

EDIT: If either request I take this down, it's down; just found their different takes entertaining.

 

Gotta say, I like PQ very much and watch all his videos, but I definatly have to agree with Flamu on most of these points.

  • Brisk for 2 points instead of PT, EM or even Vigilance is pretty dumb. 
  • The Dispersion skill just like Flamu said. It might have a very small effect on Thunderer and Conquerors fire spamming you but with their fire chance and Conqs amount of shells you still burn to death. Cruisers like Henri, Hinden, Wooster, DM and DDs like Haru, Kita etc wont care much about dispersion. So waste 4 points for this?
  • Secondary working up is a good thing but must agree with Flamu that it should stay a bit longer after changing targets if it took you 45 sec to gain bonus, and also his point, was old Secondary build ever considered being OP?! Did they really have to nerf it in the first place? It was still only a few ships in the entire game that it was good on?!
  • And also his point, what of all else? DDs had one cap skill reworked? So Dazzle is that good is it? Cant remember the rest he pointed out, just lazy work as usual from WG. So this is the second rework of the actual rework and many skills are still questionable or just crap? Good thing we got this rework right? Wonder what it cost us all?
  • And also his point, WG cant even tell us ingame IF we actually proc one of these situational buffs? So we could actually get Fooook-all by investing all our skill points in these well tested well thought out skills, because WG cant even fix lock on bug/ island bug /torp aiming bug etc etc etc. So why would I think I actually get the buff when I get burned down by fire spammers, or faster secondarys after different amount of seconds etc etc. Who would know? This could all just be another way of WG cheating us out of captain XP or dabloons?

I also didn't really like the "Pro-WG tune" of PQ in this video. Is he hard trying to get into the CC program or something? Almost got a No Zoup Flashback.

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38 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I'll just copy and paste what I said earlier about the secondaries change, which I consider to be pretty pointless.

 

It depends a lot. The 45 second of time is not about having a target selected being shot at, but secondaries firing in general. So yes, if you stay in the back and your secondaries aren't shooting, you would get worst accuracy. But if you are a 12km from the enemy ''front line'' with all secondaries blazing, that rushing DD would face something around a 45% accuracy buff from the start, thus higher accuracy than the current skill.

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zero seconds plus 10% accuracy (base bonus or permanent effect)

10 seconds 35% (base plus 25%)

45 seconds 60% ( ramping up from 35% or permanent effect plus max activated effect.)

or think of it as 10% permanent plus 50% activated effect over time. 10 + 25 + 25

This is assuming the bonus are strait up additive. If not end bonus would be more like 47% instead of 60% so will need to see.

How will the bonus to the accuracy accumulate? 25% bonus from the effect will accumulate in the first 10 seconds of continuous secondary battery firing, and another 25% - in the remaining 35 seconds. Thus a 35% bonus to the accuracy on the priority target the skill used to give before the change will get accumulated in the first 10 seconds of secondary battery firing (25% from the activated effect and 10% from the permanent effect) 

I dig it. Basically gets accuracy part back to what it was pre nerf... but it takes some time to get there.

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12 minutes ago, CAPT_CORNHOLIO said:

Priority target against DDs seems useless?  DDs don't usually appear for just a few seconds at a time. 

Yeah, if the 25% bonus isn't applied right away, it IS useless against DDs, that is true. So hopefully, there may be some adjustments to the new mechanic, as I said above, 25% bonus straight away then 25% bonus over 30s might be optimal.

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