Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Cavethug

Why does wargaming hate Germany?

13 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

11
[5D]
Members
10 posts
3,890 battles

I'd just like to know why Wargaming hates Germany? They seem to think that Germans didn't know how to make long range accurate guns. We're talking about the country that made the largest artillery piece in history. The country that had the largest artillery of the war, the K5 rail guns were extremely accurate, just ask the guys who landed at Anzio. 

Then we have the Bismarck, which.... you can argue that it was a lucky shot, but you have to hit your target for it to be a lucky shot. 

I get that this isn't a "simulation" and is more arcade than anything else, but we have basically every country in the game given an accurate long range BB, except Germany. Even the Russian, who didn't even have a modern BB get the Slava. Where's the German equivalent? Now with the latest news we get word that they're going to add some new German BB's which will differ from the ones we have in game because they'll have limited range on their mains, and great secondaries.... oh wait, my bad, I forgot... WE ALREADY HAVE THAT ON THE MAIN LINE OF GERMAN BBs. So they're making more of the same... oh wait, I forgot, they're adding torp launchers to those ships... wonderful. I just wonder if they'll have real long range torps, or if they consider long range 6km because every ship except the DDs has a max torp range of 6km. It makes one wonder how Germany could have came so close to winning the battle of the Atlantic when they had such horrible short range torpedoes, at least according to wargaming. 

I get that wargaming is Russian, and Russians hate Germany so bad that they just can't stand making anything decent for them, but for christ's sake this is a game, and they're a company I thought that was interested in making money. Screwing over all the German ships because you have some ludicrous, insane, deslusional grudge just makes zero sense. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Meh 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,555
[GWG]
Members
8,018 posts
15,874 battles

I thought it was the other way around.

Since the USSR defeated Germany, they want to make them look like the toughest bruisers around.
And thus they make it look like their 'Heroes' faced insurmountable odds and technological terrors.  It's only with courage and spirited gallantry, they won the war.

And their stuff was tough, simple,  and accurate.  That's a Soviet thing.

This was also a Soviet thing:

Chernobyl (2019) - What Have They Done? - YouTube

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,746
[-THG-]
Members
2,620 posts
8,007 battles
17 minutes ago, Cavethug said:

I'd just like to know why Wargaming hates Germany? They seem to think that Germans didn't know how to make long range accurate guns. We're talking about the country that made the largest artillery piece in history. The country that had the largest artillery of the war, the K5 rail guns were extremely accurate, just ask the guys who landed at Anzio. 

Then we have the Bismarck, which.... you can argue that it was a lucky shot, but you have to hit your target for it to be a lucky shot. 

I get that this isn't a "simulation" and is more arcade than anything else, but we have basically every country in the game given an accurate long range BB, except Germany. Even the Russian, who didn't even have a modern BB get the Slava. Where's the German equivalent? Now with the latest news we get word that they're going to add some new German BB's which will differ from the ones we have in game because they'll have limited range on their mains, and great secondaries.... oh wait, my bad, I forgot... WE ALREADY HAVE THAT ON THE MAIN LINE OF GERMAN BBs. So they're making more of the same... oh wait, I forgot, they're adding torp launchers to those ships... wonderful. I just wonder if they'll have real long range torps, or if they consider long range 6km because every ship except the DDs has a max torp range of 6km. It makes one wonder how Germany could have came so close to winning the battle of the Atlantic when they had such horrible short range torpedoes, at least according to wargaming. 

I get that wargaming is Russian, and Russians hate Germany so bad that they just can't stand making anything decent for them, but for christ's sake this is a game, and they're a company I thought that was interested in making money. Screwing over all the German ships because you have some ludicrous, insane, deslusional grudge just makes zero sense. 

the German navy in WW1 was notorious for being shorter ranged than the British, and even the Kriegsmarine tended to plan more for closer combat range when you look at Bismarck armor layout. Sure, German ship of WW2 had decent range, but it's a game: at some point you need different game play style and having some quick, sneaky close range brawler is not a bad concept.

 

Germany did not come that close to win the battle of the Atlantic, and Submarine were shooting at quite close range anyway so the 6km range of torps is not an issue.

 

And if you think that they hate Germany, keep in mind that  Germany will have 6 lines of ships, where the British only have 5 despite being the poster boy of the big guns era.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,198
[WOLF5]
Supertester
5,240 posts
4,523 battles
1 hour ago, Cavethug said:

I'd just like to know why Wargaming hates Germany? They seem to think that Germans didn't know how to make long range accurate guns. We're talking about the country that made the largest artillery piece in history. The country that had the largest artillery of the war, the K5 rail guns were extremely accurate, just ask the guys who landed at Anzio. 

Then we have the Bismarck, which.... you can argue that it was a lucky shot, but you have to hit your target for it to be a lucky shot. 

I get that this isn't a "simulation" and is more arcade than anything else, but we have basically every country in the game given an accurate long range BB, except Germany. Even the Russian, who didn't even have a modern BB get the Slava. Where's the German equivalent? Now with the latest news we get word that they're going to add some new German BB's which will differ from the ones we have in game because they'll have limited range on their mains, and great secondaries.... oh wait, my bad, I forgot... WE ALREADY HAVE THAT ON THE MAIN LINE OF GERMAN BBs. So they're making more of the same... oh wait, I forgot, they're adding torp launchers to those ships... wonderful. I just wonder if they'll have real long range torps, or if they consider long range 6km because every ship except the DDs has a max torp range of 6km. It makes one wonder how Germany could have came so close to winning the battle of the Atlantic when they had such horrible short range torpedoes, at least according to wargaming. 

I get that wargaming is Russian, and Russians hate Germany so bad that they just can't stand making anything decent for them, but for christ's sake this is a game, and they're a company I thought that was interested in making money. Screwing over all the German ships because you have some ludicrous, insane, deslusional grudge just makes zero sense. 

Why are you equating the German trait of being good at brawling with being terrible ships? Yes, they aren't good at long range, that doesn't make them bad.

The German flavor is close up brawling. Why exactly only WG knows, but it likely has to do with when they were introduced the IJN was the long range snipers, the USN was more midrange, so it made sense for the Germans to be close range ships. So they got good secondaries and what was at the time excellent armor especially at close range. The trade off was their main guns weren't good at long range, it's called balance.

And while there's no evidence the Germans were bad at long range gunnery IRL (aside from knocking out their own fire control radars, though that was a common problem with all navies) it's not like they had a reputation for it either. Bismark's hit on Hood was absolutely lucky, but it was at a pretty standard range and the RN was also scoring hits. Other than that there's really no example of German capital ships scoring amazing hits. So not sure why you're all bent out of shape.

German BBs aren't long range ships, but that certainly doesn't make them universally worse than other ships. Try brawling a GK in a Kremlin and see how well it goes for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,198
[WOLF5]
Supertester
5,240 posts
4,523 battles
1 hour ago, Karstodes said:

the German navy in WW1 was notorious for being shorter ranged than the British, and even the Kriegsmarine tended to plan more for closer combat range when you look at Bismarck armor layout. Sure, German ship of WW2 had decent range, but it's a game: at some point you need different game play style and having some quick, sneaky close range brawler is not a bad concept.

Pretty much this.

1 hour ago, Karstodes said:

Germany did not come that close to win the battle of the Atlantic, and Submarine were shooting at quite close range anyway so the 6km range of torps is not an issue.

Yeah they did, not with surface ships but spring/summer 1942 was not a fun time for the Allies. The Germans nearly managed to close the Atlantic with subs then, which would have been catastrophic for Great Britain. A lot of people think Dunkirk/Blitz was the closest the Germans got, but it was the next year. ASW was still coming online and aircraft had yet to be fully developed in that role so convoys were taking horrific losses. Pacific wasn't going well either, and the Russian front was still in doubt. Germans almost had it then, fortunately the US got it's ASW act together, got the convoys across and the tide started to turn.

1 hour ago, Karstodes said:

And if you think that they hate Germany, keep in mind that  Germany will have 6 lines of ships, where the British only have 5 despite being the poster boy of the big guns era.

That has more to do with the RN archives apparently being very hard to get access to, while WG I believe has access to the full set of German plans. Also the reason for so many Russian ships, it's easiest for them to pull those plans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,080
Alpha Tester
6,683 posts
3,338 battles
3 hours ago, Cavethug said:

I get that wargaming is Russian

You just answered your own question there, bud. Congratulations.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,080
Alpha Tester
6,683 posts
3,338 battles
3 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

Since the USSR defeated Germany, they want to make them look like the toughest bruisers around.
And thus they make it look like their 'Heroes' faced insurmountable odds and technological terrors.  It's only with courage and spirited gallantry, they won the war.

No, that's what the Americans did. The Soviets wouldn't waste a second trying to make anyone think that Germany stood a chance against the might of socialism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,746
[-THG-]
Members
2,620 posts
8,007 battles
7 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

Yeah they did, not with surface ships but spring/summer 1942 was not a fun time for the Allies. The Germans nearly managed to close the Atlantic with subs then, which would have been catastrophic for Great Britain. A lot of people think Dunkirk/Blitz was the closest the Germans got, but it was the next year. ASW was still coming online and aircraft had yet to be fully developed in that role so convoys were taking horrific losses. Pacific wasn't going well either, and the Russian front was still in doubt. Germans almost had it then, fortunately the US got it's ASW act together, got the convoys across and the tide started to turn.

they got close to momentarily inflict significant loss and force the UK to starve, but it is hard to see it as a definitive victory. The US industrial might was at that point in the war and soon they outproduce what the German could sink, while also improving their ASW capacity (tho, the main reason was some change in Germans codes that momentarily made British intelligence unable to localize wolfpacks.

 

7 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

That has more to do with the RN archives apparently being very hard to get access to, while WG I believe has access to the full set of German plans. Also the reason for so many Russian ships, it's easiest for them to pull those plans.

Well, a lot of British ships should be in the game since a while tho. And I guess WG do not like to push incomplete ship line, but it is fairly easy to do a British battlecruisers line up to tier 7 without even using archives stuff. Even the G3 design is easy to get drawing of. And for their British bb: they did made them especially squishy despite the British mindset of going protection above a lot, like they did with the KGV. I know it is for game balance, but still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12
[ENL]
[ENL]
Members
30 posts
30,640 battles

It's game balance. German battleships are the best brawlers (especially the torpedo armed ones) so they are not going to give them long range power too.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37
[PEW_]
Members
42 posts
6,740 battles

Well, let's look at the German T10s we have in game, and see how much validity there is to your statement.

Manfred von Richthofen:  Terrorized the competitive scene with its extremely powerful AP armaments and sturdy, well-armed hull.  Even after numerous nerfs, she's still fairly potent in randoms, though no longer the competitive monster she used to be.  The universal rocket nerf, and the very targeted AP DB dispersion nerf hurt her a lot.

Grosser Kurfurst:  Terrorized the competitive scene for a year or so when first released by hard-countering Yamato with her overmatch-proof bow.  Had her dispersion for all armaments and secondary firepower buffed over the course of the past year; while this hasn't brought her back into the clan battles meta, Kurfurst has never been a bad random battles ship, and the incoming secondary adjustments should allow her to maintain her status as a fun ship to use in randoms and ranked.

Hindenburg:  Has been toeing the line of OP since she came out due to reasonably sturdy armor, and the most reliable main battery guns of any cruiser.  Recently got a substantial fire rate buff, so much so that she's got one of the most effective main batteries of any cruiser.  The only reason she's not topping the competitive meta is that Stalingrad is busted, Moskva is somewhat tougher, and Petropavlosk is an indestructible abomination.

Z-52:  Never exactly a superstar, she's always had tools that let experienced players make her far excel what her paper stats suggest she should be able to do thanks to the 6 km hydro trap, good torpedoes, and good guns.  Said guns have recently gotten some pretty massive buffs with 32mm HE penetration and a faster fire rate, allowing them to do quite a lot of damage against any target you choose to engage, and the AP's solid if you get a broadside to pump it into.  Z-52 even sees a bit of play in King of the Sea and Clan Battles thanks to her versatile guns and enormous hydro range that lets her screen for torpedoes and dominate cap circles.

Elbing:  Saw one knock out a Satsuma's turrets with its AP earlier, and a different one citadel a freaking Sovetsky Soyuz.  It's hilarious.  One can't really understate how insane the guns on this thing are.  Put a full range build on it, and land 6 out of 6 shells every time you aim properly even at 18 km.  'Dead on arrival', and other lies Reddit tells you.

Max Immelmann:  The current German T10 terrorizing the competitive meta, with most of Richthofen's benefits in lightning-fast planes and a sturdy hull that can win gun fights against weakened opponents.  However, instead of the now nerfed AP armaments, she instead packs skip bombs and a large torpedo drop, which lets her pick on pretty much any ship she feels like without taking substantial plane casualties.  Sure, she's only being played because Hakuryu and FDR got banned, but being the third best CV in the game is still not a bad place to be.

 

Yes, clearly the German tech line is in a horrible place.  /s

Edited by masterfish
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
99 posts
9,404 battles

ok I'll just say this I completely understand of where the author is going like most people might not even play the German bbs because they aren't really accurate however the current line of them are meant for close range combat or close range brawls.  but I do get your point it would be nice to get some more accuracy for the German battleships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×