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40902nd

Proposal: French Carrier Line With Split

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I know that Carriers and Paper ships are perhaps the least popular ship types around. There is no getting around it. However, for France to be a ‘complete’ tech tree, it needs to have a Carrier branch. The issue is that for the time frame of the game, the French only built 1 carrier, Béarn, which used a converted Normandie hull. There were a pair ordered, the Joffre-Class, and only the Joffre herself was laid down and was only 28% complete with the Fall of France. So, it’s either paper or nothing.

For a while, I had difficulty finding information, but through persistent searching, I found ‘The Aircraft Carriers of the World’, by Simon Beerbaum. Volume 3 of the 10 volume series covers the French and I will be using this as my primary source for the majority of the information I use for this list. Should anyone find better or contradictory information, please let me know, including where you found it.

Onto the carriers, themselves, I managed to find enough for a split line, one of conventional carriers and one with large caliber secondaries. This second branch is heavily influenced by the discussion had centered around my abortive attempt to propose using one of the Lexington-Class Aircraft Carriers in their earlier configuration (specifically USS Saratoga from 1941) as a hybrid heavy cruiser. As people seemed to be more interested in a carrier with 8-inch secondaries than what I had designed, when I saw these proposals, I wanted to make a line of them. I have some ideas on how to make either worthwhile, like the conventional carriers having speed boost and both larger attacking flights and squadrons, while the PA-PC line (Porte-Avions Partout Cuirassé, or Aircraft Carrier Completely Armored), will feature better armor and secondaries, meaning they can be played closer to the front.

Another of the issues I had with developing this line was in choosing the aircraft and how to make them distinct from the other countries. I am having an issue with armament, at the moment, specifically in regards to bomb load, but I have the aircraft picked out. As a means of making these planes even more different, instead of using Rocket Attack Aircraft, I have opted to replace them with Reconnaissance Aircraft, where instead of attacking, the player can detach aircraft that will then circle the air for a set amount of time before returning to ship.

Now, without further ado, I present my vision for French Carriers.

 

 

Tier IV
Béarn

Bearn.thumb.png.3dce11a70129e9e57440b8b4be85a256.png

Spoiler

Displacement: 22,146t (standard), 28,400t (full)
Health: 36,200-38,400
Armor
     Main Belt: 83mm
     Upper Belt: 50mm
     Deck: 24mm
     Armored Deck: 40mm?
     Turtleback Slope: 70mm
     Citadel Bulkhead: 20mm
     Citadel Athwartship: 13mm
     Citadel Roof: 40mm
Length: 182.5m
Beam: 35.2m
Speed: 21.5kts
     Engine Upgrade: 60,000hp, 23.4kts (planned upgrade, never installed)
Rudder Shift: 20s
Turning Circle: 640m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 12.1km/7.0km
Air Wing
1 – Reconnaissance Planes

     Levasseur PL.10
     Hit Points: 1,500
     Cruising Speed: 70kts
     Max Speed: 120kts
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron:
4
     Loiter Time: 40s

     Detectability: 7.5km
     Aircraft on Deck: 8

     Restoration: 60s
2 – Torpedo Bomber
     Levassuer PL.7
     Hit Points:
1,400
     Cruising Speed: 70kts
     Max Speed: 92kts
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Ordnance: 40cm 26DA
     Payload: 1
     Max Damage: 5353
     Detectability: 7.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 12
     Restoration: 90s
3 – Bomber
     Loire-Nieuport LN.401
     Hit Points: 1,500
     Cruising Speed: 150kts
     Max Speed: 180kts (205kts in real life)
     Size of Flight:
2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Ordnance: [Unknown] (225kg, 165kg, or 10x 15kg)
     Payload: [TBD]
     Max Damage: [TBD]
     Detectability: 7.5km
     Aircraft on Deck: 12
     Restoration: 90s
Secondary Armament
8x1 155mm/50 Mle 1921 in casemates
     Reload: 9ss
     Max Damage: 2500
     Fire Chance: 9%
     Penetration: 19mm
     Range: 4.8km
     Muzzle Velocity: 785m/s
   Hull B
6x1 100mm/
45 Mle 1927
     Reload: 5s
     Max Damage: 1,400
     Fire Chance: 6%
     Penetration: 17mm
     Range: 4.8km
     Muzzle Velocity: 780m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
   Hull A
6x1 75mm Mle 1924
9x1 37mm Mle 1925
6x2 8mm CAD Mle 1914

Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 60
     Range: 3.0km
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 56
     Range: 1.5km
   Hull B
6x1 100mm/45 Mle 1927
9x1 37mm Mle 1925
6x2 13.2mm/76 CAD Mle 1929

Long Range AA
Flak Burst: 1
Flak Damage: 1050
Continuous Damage: 30
Range: 5.8km
Medium Range AA
Continuous Damage: 31
Range: 3.5km
Short Range AA
Continuous Damage: 77
Range: 2.5km
Consumables
Auto Damage Control Party
Auto Fighter

Hull A of Béarn represents her as she launched, while Hull B is her after 1935 reconstruction. While she is the most tanky of the Tier IV carriers, have the most health by far and some of the heaviest armor (she was built from a battleship, after all), she does suffer from poor mobility, being the second slowest, after Langley, and having a rudder ship befitting her battleship origins.

The planes are likewise lackluster, but this is in part to keep with the time period of the other tier IV carriers.

 

Carrier Branch: Conventional Carriers
For the most part, these are the least interesting to me, as they just offer traditional carrier gameplay. They also have something no other carrier has: a player activated ability. Namely, starting at Tier 6, they get the Engine Boost consumable which is standard for French Battleships. 8% speed boost for 180s with a 9s cool down and 3 charges.

 

Tier VI
Joffre
Joffre.thumb.png.c9c0a272b78815e253b9cb3a13da5f9d.png

Spoiler

Displacement: 18,000-20,000t
Health: 41,300-42,700
Armor
     Main Belt: 105mm
     Upper Belt: mm
     Extended Belt: mm
     Deck: 40mm
     Armored Deck: 40-70mm
     Turtleback Slope: mm
     Citadel Bulkhead: mm
     Citadel Athwartship: mm
     Citadel Roof: mm
Length: 236m
Beam: 24.6m
Speed: 33.5kts
Rudder Shift: s
Turning Circle: m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 15.5km/12.3km
Air Wing

1Reconnaissance Aircraft
     Bréguet Br.810
     Hit Points: 2,200
     Cruising Speed: 185kts
     Max Speed: 220kts (264.6kts historically)
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 6
     
Loiter Time: 80s
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 12
     Restoration: 45s
2Torpedo Bomber
      Bréguet Br.810
     Hit Points: 2,200
     Cruising Speed: 163kts
     Max Speed: 198kts
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Ordnance: 40cm 42DA
     Payload: 1
     Max Damage: 6,361
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 6
     Restoration: 100s
3 – Bomber
      Bréguet Br.810
     Hit Points: 2,200
     Cruising Speed: 163kts
     Max Speed: 198kts
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Ordnance: 450kg or 225kg or 150kg
     Payload: 1 or 2 or 4
     Max Damage: [TBD]
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 6
     Restoration: 90s
Secondary Armament
4x2 130mm/45 Mle 1932
     Reload: 5s
     Max Damage: 1900
     Fire Chance: 9%
     Penetration: 22mm
     Range: 5.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 840m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
4x2 130mm/45 Mle 1932
4x2 37mm/50 Mle 1933
7x4 13.2mm/76 CAQ Mle 1929

Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 5
     Flak Damage: 1330
     Continuous Damage: 70
     Range: 1.5km
Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 20
     Range: 3.0km
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 92
     Range: 6.0km
Consumables
Auto Damage Control Party
Auto – Fighter
T – Speed Boost

 

The only class of carrier France designed from the heel out as a carrier until after the Second World War, the Joffre-Class was order as a class of 2 ship. Only the lead ship, Joffre, was laid down and was only 28% complete when France capitulated. The ship was not completed by the Germans and it would later be scrapped. The second ship, Painlevé was never laid down.

The ship was named for Joseph Jacques Césaire Joffre, a commander from World War I, who regrouped the retreating Allied forces and defeated the Germans at the First Battle of the Mame.

 

Tier VIII
PA 28
Clemenceau

PA-28.thumb.png.4ecfd7480a1a30d266486062c328f4ad.png

Spoiler

Displacement: 25,000t
Health: 49,900
Armor (Guess based off Joffre)
     Main Belt: 105mm
     Upper Belt: mm
     Extended Belt: mm
     Deck: 40mm
     Armored Deck: 40-70mm
     Turtleback Slope: mm
     Citadel Bulkhead: mm
     Citadel Athwartship: mm
     Citadel Roof: mm
Length: 230m
Beam: 36m
Speed: 31.8kts
Rudder Shift: s
Turning Circle: m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 16.3km/12.7km
Air Wing
1
Reconnaissance Aircraft
     Nord 1500 Noréclair
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 167.5kts
     Max Speed: 202.5kts
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Loiter Time: 80s

     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 12
     Restoration: 45s
2Torpedo Bomber
     Nord 1500 Noréclair
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 190kts
     Max Speed: 225kts (Historically 290kts)
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Ordnance: 40cm 42DA
     Payload: 1
     Max Damage: 8,848
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 105
     Restoration: 105s
3 – Bomber

     Nord 1500 Noréclair
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 167.5kts
     Max Speed: 202.5kts
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Ordnance: 2000kg of ordnance
     Payload: x
     Max Damage: [TBD]
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 9
     Restoration: 90s
Secondary Armament
8x2 100mm/55 CAD Mle 1945
     Reload: 3s
     Max Damage: 1,400
     Fire Chance: 5%
     Penetration: 17mm
     Range: 7.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 855m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
8x2 100mm/55 CAD Mle 1945
8x2 57mm/60 ACAD Mle 1961
Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 5
     Flak Damage: 1330
     Continuous Damage: 70
     Range: 6.0km
Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 332
     Range: 3.0km
Consumables
Auto Damage Control Party
Auto – Fighter
T – Speed Boost

An after-war design that was nearly ordered, but ultimately cancelled, as the French did not know if there would be a place for carriers in a nuclear armed world. Might be kicked to a premium so it can be equipped with the NC.1070, which were designed specifically for her.

Named after Georges Clemenceau, called Le Tigre. He was Prime Minister from 1917 to 1920 and was a framer of the Treaty of Versailles.

 

Tier X
PA19

Maillé-Brézé

PA-19.png.a62d76e0755cb9e26bc008dd48806356.png

Spoiler

Displacement: 30,000t
Health: 58,000
Armor (Guess based off Joffre)
     Main Belt: 105mm
     Upper Belt: mm
     Extended Belt: mm
     Deck: 40mm
     Armored Deck: 40-70mm
     Turtleback Slope: mm
     Citadel Bulkhead: mm
     Citadel Athwartship: mm
     Citadel Roof: mm
Length: 260m
Beam: [Unknown]m
Speed: 30+kts
Rudder Shift: s
Turning Circle: m
Detectability By Air/Sea: km/km
Air Wing
1
Reconnaissance Aircraft
     SNCAC NC.1070
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 220kts
     Max Speed: 255kts (Historically 302kts)
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 8
     Loiter Time: 100s
     Detectability:
8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 12
     Restoration: 60s
2Torpedo Bomber
     SNCAC NC.1070
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 194.5kts
     Max Speed: 229.5kts
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Ordnance: 40cm 50DA
     Payload: 2
     Max Damage: 6767
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 9
     Restoration: 105s
3 – Bomber

     SNCAC NC.1070
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 194.5kts
     Max Speed: 229.5kts
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Ordnance: [TBD]
     Payload: 4
     Max Damage: [TBD]
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 9
     Restoration: 90s
Secondary Armament
4x3 152mm/55 Mle 1950
     Reload: 8s
     Max Damage: 22,000
     Fire Chance: 12%
     Penetration: 25mm
     Range: 8.3km
     Muzzle Velocity: 870m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
4x3 152mm/55 Mle 1950
12x2 57mm/60 ACAD Mle 1951
Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 7
     Flak Damage: 1680
     Continuous Damage: 200
     Range: 6.0km
Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 497
     Range: 3.8km
Consumables
Auto Damage Control Party
Auto – Fighter
T – Speed Boost

A Post-war design that sought to improve on the Joffre-Class. It was notable in that it had a fairly heavy secondary armament for shore bombardment. It wasn’t built due to the financial situation France found herself in at the end of the war. As only the size and number of 6” guns was specified, I chose to help myself to the secondary guns found on the Republiqué and added the 57mm guns as a means of filling out her AA.

There is another contender for this spot, PA 25. She is 5,000 tons lighter, 10m shorter, and more is known about her AA guns. I might swing back and make her a resource ship of some sort.

Will be replaced as soon as a better candidate is found.

The ship is named after Jean Armand de Maillé-Brézé, who is thought to be the most talented admiral France ever produced. He won repeated victories over the Spanish in the Mediterranean, though he died prematurely at only 27.

 

Carrier Branch: Porte-Avions Partout Cuirassé Line
Battle Carriers. Hybrid Warships. Pick your name, it doesn’t matter. These are not ‘Hybrids’ in the sense that Wargaming uses it, but rather true carriers armed with big guns. Technically, PA6 did not fall under the PA-PC designs, but she predated them and France has a long history of trying to design such ships. This line of ships will have powerful secondaries, but will have reduced aviation facilities, because of this. This means that they will have fewer planes per flight and squadron and longer restoration times. They use the same planes as their conventional counterpart, but that is more due to the lack of designs of planes than anything.

 

Tier VI
PA1

Créquy

1075188140_FrenchCVPA1.png.451c1409209ab78e4a686b41cbb7c026.png

Spoiler

Displacement: 27,400t
Health: 44,200
Armor
     Main Belt: mm
     Upper Belt: mm
     Extended Belt: mm
     Deck: mm
     Armored Deck: mm
     Turtleback Slope: mm
     Citadel Bulkhead: mm
     Citadel Athwartship: mm
     Citadel Roof: mm
Length: 244m
Beam: [Unknown]m
Speed: 31kts
Rudder Shift: 14.2s
Turning Circle: 820m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 13.5km/10.8km
Air Wing
1Reconnaissance Aircraft
     Bréguet Br.810
     Hit Points: 2,200
     Cruising Speed: 185kts
     Max Speed: 220kts
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 6
     
Loiter Time: 80s
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 12
     Restoration: 60s
2Torpedo Bomber
      Bréguet Br.810
     Hit Points: 2,200
     Cruising Speed: 163kts
     Max Speed: 198kts
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 4
     Ordnance: 40cm 42DA
     Payload: 1
     Max Damage: 6,361
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 6
     Restoration: 110s
3 – Bomber
      Bréguet Br.810
     Hit Points: 2,200
     Cruising Speed: 163kts
     Max Speed: 198kts
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 4
     Ordnance: 450kg or 225kg or 150kg
     Payload: 1 or 2 or 4
     Max Damage: [TBD]
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 6
     Restoration: 100s
Secondary Armament
4x2 203mm/55 Mle 1934
     Reload: 11s
     Max Damage: 2800
     Fire Chance: 15%
     Penetration: 34mm
     Range: 5.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 876.0m/s
6x2 100mm/45 Mle 1931
     Reload: 4s
     Max Damage: 1,400
     Fire Chance: 6%
     Penetration: 17mm
     Range: 5.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 780.0m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
121 100mm/45 Mle 1931
[Further AA to be added after discussion]

Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 4
     Flak Damage: 119.0
     Continuous Damage: 59
     Range: 6.0km
Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: [TBD]
     Range: x.xkm
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: [TBD]
     Range: x.xkm
Consumables
Auto Damage Control Party
Auto – Fighter

Designed as a Cruiser-Carrier, design PA 1 had 4 two-gun 8-inch turrets, placed at the 4 corners under the flight deck, giving it excellent all around coverage, something that will be missing from the later ships in this branch..

The ship is named for François de Créquy, who, along with Turenne and The Great Condé, were a trio of famous French commanders of the 17th Century.

 

Tier VIII
PA5/PA5B (1944)
Le Grand Condé

pa-5b_french_hybrid.thumb.jpg.360a7aeec777ce2f3f028a32d0bbec3c.jpg

Spoiler

Displacement: 42,000t
Health: 55,400
Armor
     Main Belt: 248mm (internal, inclined)
     Upper Belt: 130mm (speculative, only meets to deck)
     Extended Belt: 130mm (speculative, looks to reach at least rear gun)
     Deck: up to 130mm
     Armored Deck: mm
     Turtleback Slope: 50mm (based on Richelieu)
     Citadel Bulkhead: 40mm
     Citadel Athwartship: 228mm
     Citadel Roof: 40mm
Length: 237m
Beam: [Unknown]m
Speed: 30kts (estimated)
Rudder Shift: s
Turning Circle: m
Detectability By Air/Sea: km/km
Air Wing
1
Reconnaissance Aircraft
     Nord 1500 Noréclair
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 190kts
     Max Speed: 225kts (Historically 290kts)
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Loiter Time: 80s

     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 12
     Restoration: 60s
2Torpedo Bomber
     Nord 1500 Noréclair
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 167.5kts
     Max Speed: 202.5kts
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 4
     Ordnance: 40cm 42DA
     Payload: 1
     Max Damage: 8,848
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 6
     Restoration: 120s
3 – Bomber

     Nord 1500 Noréclair
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 167.5kts
     Max Speed: 202.5kts
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 4
     Ordnance: 450kg or 225kg or 150kg
     Payload: 1 or 2 or 4
     Max Damage: [TBD]
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 6
     Restoration: 105s
Secondary Armament
1x4 283mm/52 Mle 1942 (Originally called for 280mm quad turret, no other info given)
     Reload: 20s
     Max Damage: 3700
     Fire Chance: 25%
     Penetration: 35mm
     Range: 7.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 890m/s
6x2 130mm/45 Mle 1932 (Originally called for 114mm, which I could not find any information on)
     Reload: 5s
     Max Damage: 1,900
     Fire Chance: 9%
     Penetration: 22mm
     Range: 7.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 840m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
6x2 130mm/45 Mle 1932
30x4 25mm/60 CAQ Mle 1939
Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 7
     Flak Damage: 1,400
     Continuous Damage: 111
     Range: 6.0km
Short Range AA
      Continuous Damage: 794
     Range: 2.5km
Consumables
Auto Damage Control Party
Auto – Fighter

Probably the most aesthetically pleasing design to me in this branch, and quite possibly in the tree as a whole, PA5/PA5B was a design from 1944 (not to be confused with the earlier PA 5 from the 1930’s). This design is part of the PA-PC design series and mounts an 11-inch four-gun turret. I could not find any information on the gun aside from the diameter, so I based it off of the guns on the Graf Spee, though I used advanced calculations (rough guesstimation) for the damage of the gun, since it wouldn’t be using the anemic German HE, though this means that the HE pen does down from 71mm to 35mm.

The design also called for 114mm guns, but I could not find any reference to guns of that caliber in either the French or German arsenals. Due to this, I replaced them with the 127mm guns found on the Republiqué.

The ship is named after Louise de Bourbon, Price of Condé, also know as the Great Condé. He founded a dynamic duo with another famous French general, Turenne, and together they carried the French armies to many victories under Louis XIV. He is particular celebrated for his use of cavalry at the Battle of Rocroi, which ushered a new era is military history.

 

Tier X
PA1-PC or PA1-PC2
Turenne

1599342726543.png.f65c8f20fbe599dc164a8c9ad7941497.png

Spoiler

Displacement: 50,000t
Health: 64,400
Armor
     Main Belt: 284mm (Design PA1-PC2 had ‘only 210mm’)
     Upper Belt: 130mm (only up to deck, speculative, possibly even more)
     Extended Belt: 130mm to cover forward barbette (speculative, only)
     Deck: up to 130mm
     Armored Deck: mm
     Turtleback Slope: 70mm (Based on Republiqué)
     Citadel Bulkhead: 50mm over magazines, 40mm over machine spaces
     Citadel Athwartship: 235mm
     Citadel Roof: 60mm
Length: 234.3m
Beam: 31.5m
Speed: 30kts
Rudder Shift: 14.6s
Turning Circle: 980m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 17.0km/13.5km
Air Wing
1
Reconnaissance Aircraft
     SNCAC NC.1070
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 220kts
     Max Speed: 255kts (Historically 302kts)
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 4
     Loiter Time: 100s

     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 8
     Restoration: 60s
2Torpedo Bomber
     SNCAC NC.1070
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 194.5kts
     Max Speed: 229.5kts
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 4
     Ordnance: 40cm 50DA
     Payload: 2
     Max Damage: 6,767
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 6
     Restoration: 120s
3 – Bomber

     SNCAC NC.1070
     Hit Points: 2,400
     Cruising Speed: 194.5kts
     Max Speed: 229.5kts
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 4
     Ordnance: [TBD]
     Payload: 4
     Max Damage: [TBD]
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck:6
     Restoration: 105s
Secondary Armament
1x4 330mm/52 Mle 1932
     Reload: 22s
     Max Damage: 4800
     Fire Chance: 35%
     Penetration: 55mm
     Range: 8.3km
     Muzzle Velocity: 885.0m/s
12x2 130mm/45 Mle 1932 (Originally called for 114mm, which I could not find any information on)
     Reload: 5s
     Max Damage: 1,900
     Fire Chance: 9%
     Penetration: 22mm
     Range: 7.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 840m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
12x2 127mm/54 Mle 1948
5x4 25mm/60 CAQ Mle 1939
Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 7
     Flak Damage: 1,400
     Continuous Damage: 221
     Range: 6.0km
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 13
     Range: 2.5km
Consumables
Auto Damage Control Party
Auto – Fighter

PA1-PC and PA1-PC2 differ only in the thickness of the armor (248mm vs 210mm on the latter) and that the latter was slightly longer (238.2 vs 234.3). Both have the main armament, a 330mm four-gun turret based off of the once used on the Dunkerque-class battleship tucked under the flight deck. Of note is that the design specifically states that the hanger was to be armored against enemy artillery. The deck armor is only a guess, but I based it off of the smaller PA 5/PA 5B design that came later in the same design series. Like that design, but the PA1-PC and PA1-PC2 call for 114mm guns as part of their anti-aircraft battery. As stated, I could not find any information on these, so I used the 127mm on Republiqué.

The ship is named for Henri de La Tour d’Auvergne, Viscount of Turenne, who is commonly know as Turenne. He was said to be one of the greatest military commanders of all time.
 

About the Planes:

Spoiler

 

Tier IV

Tier VI

 

Tier VIII

 

Tier X

Spoiler

 

 

 

Aerial Weapons:
 

Spoiler

 

Torpedoes

Designation: 40cm 26DA
Type: Torpedo (Historical)
Warhead: 144 kg (TNT)
Damage: 5353
Flood Chance: 44.7%

Min Range: 320m
Max Range: 2.0km
Speed: 35kts

Designation: 40cm 34DA
Type: Torpedo (Fictional)
Warhead: 200 kg (TNT)
Damage: 6361
Flood Chance: 55.2%

Min Range: 375m
Max Range: 2.5km
Speed: 37kts

Designation: 45cm 42DA
Type: Torpedo (Fictional)
Warhead: 375kg (TNT)
Damage: 8848
Flood Chance: 82.7%

Min Range: 410m
Max Range: 2.2km
Speed: 38kts

Designation: 40cm 50DA
Type: Torpedo (Fictional)
Warhead: 225kg (TNT)
Damage: 6767
Flood Chance: 59.6%

Min Range: 540m
Max Range: 2.5km
Speed: 34kts

Armor Piercing Bombs

Designation:
Mass:
Damage:

Designation:
Mass:
Damage:

Designation:
Mass:
Damage:

Designation:
Mass:
Damage:

High Explosive Bombs

Designation:
Mass:
Damage:
Penetration:
Fire Chance:

Designation:
Mass:
Damage:
Penetration:
Fire Chance:

Designation:
Mass:
Damage:
Penetration:
Fire Chance:

Designation:
Mass:
Damage:
Penetration:
Fire Chance:

 

 

Removed Ships:

Spoiler

 

Tier VI (Conventional)
PA 11
837739816_FrenchCVPA11.png.5f70dd31b95afda4964204890a414483.png
 

Spoiler

 

Displacement: 15,350t
Health: 39,500
Armor
     Main Belt: mm
     Upper Belt: mm
     Extended Belt: mm
     Deck: 20-40mm
     Armored Deck: mm
     Turtleback Slope: mm
     Citadel Bulkhead: mm
     Citadel Athwartship: mm
     Citadel Roof: mm
Length: 220m
Beam: [Unknown]m
Speed: 34kts
Rudder Shift: 10.5s
Turning Circle: 975m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 10km/9km
Air Wing
1
Reconnaissance Aircraft
     Dewoitine D.750
     Hit Points: 2,000
     Cruising Speed: 129kts
     Max Speed: 193kts
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Loiter Time: 60s
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 12
     Restoration: 45s
2Torpedo Bomber
     Dewoitine D.750
     Hit Points: 2,000
     Cruising Speed: 129kts
     Max Speed: 193kts
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Ordnance: 34DA
     Payload: 1
     Max Damage: 5250
     Detectability: 8.0
     Aircraft on Deck: 9
     Restoration: 105s
3 – Bomber

     Dewoitine D.750
     Hit Points: 2,000
     Cruising Speed: 129kts
     Max Speed: 193kts
     Size of Flight: 2
     Size of Squadron: 6
     Ordnance: 450kg or 225kg or 150kg
     Payload: 1 or 2 or 4
     Max Damage: [TBD]
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 9
     Restoration: 85s
Secondary Armament
6x2 100mm/45 Mle 1931
     Reload: 4.0s
     Max Damage: 1400
     Fire Chance: 6%
     Penetration: 17mm
     Range: 5.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 780m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
6x2 100mm/45 Mle 1931
8x4 13.2mm

Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 3
     Flak Damage: 1120
     Continuous Damage: 77
     Range: 5.8km
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 105
     Range: 2.5km
Consumables
Auto Damage Control Party
Auto – Fighter
T – Speed Boost

PA11 was designed as a flush-deck carrier with the speed to operate with France’s destroyers and cruisers. As a flush-deck carrier, it lacks superstructure, meaning it can be stealth, and with it’s speed, a player with good situational awareness should be able to reposition easily.

While the carrier, itself, will be good at surviving through stealth, it will need that, as the restoration time for the aircraft is long, and the flights are small, meaning that if the carrier player wastes planes early, they will be left having to scrape together enough to form a decent strike group.

The ship is named after Charle de Batz de Castlemore d’Artagnan, the most popular member of the Musketeers of the Guard. Most people recognize him from the fictionalized story “The Three Musketeers”.

 

Tier VI (PA-PC)
PA 6

343203827_FrenchCVPA6.thumb.png.4e580d0b34561eaaf29f4ba1815245b1.png

Spoiler

Displacement: 19,230t
Health: 42,300
Armor
     Main Belt: 110mm
     Upper Belt: 90mm
     Extended Belt: mm
     Deck: 90mm
     Armored Deck: mm
     Turtleback Slope: mm
     Citadel Bulkhead: mm
     Citadel Athwartship: mm
     Citadel Roof: mm
Length: 220m
Beam: [Unknown]m
Speed: 31kts
Rudder Shift: 14.2s
Turning Circle: 820m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 13.5km/10.8km
Air Wing
1
Reconnaissance Aircraft
     Dewoitine D.750
     Hit Points: 2,000
     Cruising Speed: 129kts
     Max Speed: 193kts
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 4
     Loiter Time: 60s

     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 8
     Restoration: 60s
2Torpedo Bomber
     Dewoitine D.750
     Hit Points: 2,000
     Cruising Speed: 129kts
     
Max Speed: 193kts
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 4
     Ordnance:
34DA
     Payload: 1
     Max Damage: 5,250
     Detectability:
8.0
     Aircraft on Deck: 6
     Restoration: 120s
3 – Bomber

     Dewoitine D.750
     Hit Points: 2,000
     Cruising Speed: 129kts
     Max Speed: 193kts
     Size of Flight: 1
     Size of Squadron: 4
     Ordnance: 450kg or 225kg or 150kg
     Payload: 1 or 2 or 4
     Max Damage: [TBD]
     Detectability: 8.0km
     Aircraft on Deck: 6
     Restoration: 100s
Secondary Armament
2x3 203mm/55 Mle 1934
     Reload: 11s
     Max Damage: 2800
     Fire Chance: 15%
     Penetration: 34mm
     Range: 5.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 876.0m/s
6x2 100mm/45 Mle 1931
     Reload: 4s
     Max Damage: 1,400
     Fire Chance: 6%
     Penetration: 17mm
     Range: 5.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 780.0m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
6x2 100mm/45 Mle 1931
[Further AA to be added after discussion]

Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: [TBD]
     Flak Damage: 119.0
     Continuous Damage: 59
     Range: 6.0km
Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: [TBD]
     Range: x.xkm
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: [TBD]
     Range: x.xkm
Consumables
Auto Damage Control Party
Auto – Fighter

 

 

 

I am open to discussion about any of the stats of these ships. Particularly, I am interested in what sort of bombs the bombers should carrier: AP or HE, or each line gets it's one. All these designs are French designs and all the aircraft for them actually existed. And please, if you don't like it don't just tell me "Thanks, I hate it", tell me why.

EDIT:
1. Added Pictures, hide stats in spoilers for ease of reading.
2. Added links and picture of planes in "About the Planes"
3. Moved Joffre to Tier 6, placing PA 11, filled the gap at Tier 8 with PA 28. Replaced PA 6 with PA 1. Removed Dewoitine D.750. Moved SNCAO CAO.600 to Tier 6. Added Nord 1500 Noréclair as the new Tier 8 carrier aircraft. Recalculated ALL torpedo damages. Reduced number of NC.1070 torpedoes to 2, but increased damage. Added "Removed Ships" section. Added more detailed information in the "Aerial Weapons" section. Changed max speed of aircraft with payload to 90% of unladen max speed. Changed cruising speed to be 35kts slower than max speed. Changed the 127mm DP mounts on the Tier 8 and 10 PA-PC ships to 130mm mounts.

French CV_bb.jpg

Edited by 40902nd
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On a serious note... 

I like the idea. If you start with that one and with much speculative fiction like say Russian CVs, then just add 3 more. And maybe add 2 premiums to boot.

There is a lot of detailed design here. Lots of potential. 

On a funny note...

That name though. Most people hate Joffre since Game of Thrones. That would add double if not 10 times the angry feelings for CVs. 

I suggest maybe Baguette, Croissant, and Escargot. These in addition to Joffre would work. Premiums would be Nutella and Le Royale with Cheese.(Quarter Pounder in US, yeah pun intended).

Yeah, I made a funny there. Seriously, any name is fine. 

If we are getting a Russian CV line, then why not the other nations? At least France actually started one. Right?

Canada had one built by MacGyver, yet nobody knows about that one. :cap_cool:

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Well, the CV designs are a bit wonky. The T6 should be Joffre, she has no business being at T8 (poor displacement, air wing size, protection and AA suite). The T6 you've chosen is a bit more like a T5 and isn't really worth including considering that it's not too different than Joffre is. Your T10 is basically an enlarged Joffre (btw, the PA-19 design isn't from post-war, it's from 1943) which MIGHT make it as a T8, but definitely doesn't cut it at T10 (displacement, protection, air wing and AA suite are once again too lacklustre). You'd be better served using one of the larger CV designs instead of a follow-on Joffre at T8 such as PA-27 (one of the variants) & PA-31.

As for the hybrid CV designs, I'd say they're mostly fine. There might be an argument for changing the T6 for PA-1 from 1928 as it helps keep the line progression a bit smoother regarding speed. One notable criticism: you have switched the planned 115mm guns for 127mm/54 Mle 1948 guns when the most likely path would've been that the 115mm guns would be switched to 130mm DP guns just like the ones used in the Joffre.

Planes-wise: You seem to have missed a lot of French planned CV planes like the Nieuport Ni-140, Dewoitine D.501, Morane-Saulnier MS.474, Latecoere 675, Dewoitine D.790, SNCASE SE 582, SNCASO SO.8000 (fighters/rocket planes) or Breguet Br.810, Nord 1500 Noreclair (torpedo bombers). Might be worth checking them out to not use planes in tiers they don't belong (the CAO600 is not a T8 plane for example, more suited to T6 from its characteristics).

Overall, a pretty good effort and a solid idea for the Hybrid CV line. I'm not a fan of the "reconnaissance plane" idea as they'll be taken down really quick with flak. Would need some help to fix it, maybe make it loiter or work as an ASW squadron when they finally implement subs?

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28 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

That name though. Most people hate Joffre since Game of Thrones. That would add double if not 10 times the angry feelings for CVs. 

Ya, I know, but that's what they named her. I could go with Painlevé, but WG tends to go with the class name in cases like these.

 

22 minutes ago, Fr05ty said:

The T6 should be Joffre, she has no business being at T8 (poor displacement, air wing size, protection and AA suite).

I'm working on kicking her down a tier and I am looking for a replacement Tier 8. It shouldn't take me too much longer until I settle on one.

26 minutes ago, Fr05ty said:

Your T10 is basically an enlarged Joffre (btw, the PA-19 design isn't from post-war, it's from 1943) which MIGHT make it as a T8, but definitely doesn't cut it at T10 (displacement, protection, air wing and AA suite are once again too lacklustre). You'd be better served using one of the larger CV designs instead of a follow-on Joffre at T8 such as PA-27 (one of the variants) & PA-31.

My source is "The French Aircraft Carriers: The Aircraft Carriers of the World Volume 3" by Simon Beerbaum. I found PA-19 listed under "Designs after 1945". This could very well be wrong, of course. The eBook was less than $4.00 USD, though, and it at least points me in the right direction. The book makes mention of a 30,000t PA 27 and PA 27º, but offers almost no information on it. It does have PA 28 "Clemenceau" and mentions a PA 29, but gives no detail for the latter. It then skips to the designs of the 1950's, with Clemenceau and Foch, and then skips to PA 58 Verdun. These latter ships are, of course, out side of the scope of the game. I'll look around more, and see what I can scrounge up, but I can't promise anything.

51 minutes ago, Fr05ty said:

There might be an argument for changing the T6 for PA-1 from 1928 as it helps keep the line progression a bit smoother regarding speed.

Duly noted. Since you brought up speed, would you happen to know the speed of the PA-PC? My reference has it unlisted, so I was at a loss.

53 minutes ago, Fr05ty said:

One notable criticism: you have switched the planned 115mm guns for 127mm/54 Mle 1948 guns when the most likely path would've been that the 115mm guns would be switched to 130mm DP guns just like the ones used in the Joffre.

I want to say it was because I was thinking ahead, like some sort of post-war refit, but the truth is I completely forgot about the 130mm DP guns on the Joffre. It did the conventional line first, then I stated the PA-PC line and I spent a considerable amount of time trying (and failing) to look up what the book calls 114mm. I refence the ships in-game a lot for stuff like AA values, damages values, fire chance, ect, and also as a means of filling out the nomenclature on the weapons. None of the French ships mount a dual purpose 130mm, so I just snagged the next best thing I could think of, without going to the 100mm, which were the 127mm DP on the Republiqué. It's on my list of things to change.

1 hour ago, Fr05ty said:

Planes-wise: You seem to have missed a lot of French planned CV planes like the Nieuport Ni-140, Dewoitine D.501, Morane-Saulnier MS.474, Latecoere 675, Dewoitine D.790, SNCASE SE 582, SNCASO SO.8000 (fighters/rocket planes) or Breguet Br.810, Nord 1500 Noreclair (torpedo bombers). Might be worth checking them out to not use planes in tiers they don't belong (the CAO600 is not a T8 plane for example, more suited to T6 from its characteristics).

I was having a real heck of a time finding information of what planes were actually available to operate off of carriers. I felt I was stretching as I was when I put the Dewoitine D.750 so that I could bump the SNCAO CAO.600 up to tier 8, so I will definitely look into the Br.810 and Nord 1500. Thanks for the lead!

1 hour ago, Fr05ty said:

I'm not a fan of the "reconnaissance plane" idea as they'll be taken down really quick with flak. Would need some help to fix it, maybe make it loiter or work as an ASW squadron when they finally implement subs?

Honestly, the Recon Plane is something that I came up with last minute, when I was looking at how the Béarn's flight group was set up and how it seemed, to me at least, that the French put a decent amount of emphasis on reconnaissance. The main idea behind it is to make temporary areas of denial for destroyers, drop them on a smoke screen like CVs do with fighters now, and to drop them out side of enemy AA to provide spotting against things like battleships. With luck, they'd be just annoying enough to shake someone out of position to sail to them and actually deal with them. Also, due to their sacrificial nature, I cut their restoration time down a lot compared to the other payloads and why I provide 2 full squadrons of them on deck, as opposed to just one and a half, which I do for the others. It's also one of the reasons I cut the detectability of the French planes to 8km, as opposed to the standard 10 (some Japanese Torpedo Bombers can get as low as 7km detectability). This should allow for some undetected spotting of battleship when they open fire.

As for swapping them to ASW work when subs are implemented, I have no issue at all.

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1 hour ago, 40902nd said:

I'm working on kicking her down a tier and I am looking for a replacement Tier 8. It shouldn't take me too much longer until I settle on one.

My source is "The French Aircraft Carriers: The Aircraft Carriers of the World Volume 3" by Simon Beerbaum. I found PA-19 listed under "Designs after 1945". This could very well be wrong, of course. The eBook was less than $4.00 USD, though, and it at least points me in the right direction. The book makes mention of a 30,000t PA 27 and PA 27º, but offers almost no information on it. It does have PA 28 "Clemenceau" and mentions a PA 29, but gives no detail for the latter. It then skips to the designs of the 1950's, with Clemenceau and Foch, and then skips to PA 58 Verdun. These latter ships are, of course, out side of the scope of the game. I'll look around more, and see what I can scrounge up, but I can't promise anything.

Duly noted. Since you brought up speed, would you happen to know the speed of the PA-PC? My reference has it unlisted, so I was at a loss.

I want to say it was because I was thinking ahead, like some sort of post-war refit, but the truth is I completely forgot about the 130mm DP guns on the Joffre. It did the conventional line first, then I stated the PA-PC line and I spent a considerable amount of time trying (and failing) to look up what the book calls 114mm. I refence the ships in-game a lot for stuff like AA values, damages values, fire chance, ect, and also as a means of filling out the nomenclature on the weapons. None of the French ships mount a dual purpose 130mm, so I just snagged the next best thing I could think of, without going to the 100mm, which were the 127mm DP on the Republiqué. It's on my list of things to change.

I was having a real heck of a time finding information of what planes were actually available to operate off of carriers. I felt I was stretching as I was when I put the Dewoitine D.750 so that I could bump the SNCAO CAO.600 up to tier 8, so I will definitely look into the Br.810 and Nord 1500. Thanks for the lead!

Honestly, the Recon Plane is something that I came up with last minute, when I was looking at how the Béarn's flight group was set up and how it seemed, to me at least, that the French put a decent amount of emphasis on reconnaissance. The main idea behind it is to make temporary areas of denial for destroyers, drop them on a smoke screen like CVs do with fighters now, and to drop them out side of enemy AA to provide spotting against things like battleships. With luck, they'd be just annoying enough to shake someone out of position to sail to them and actually deal with them. Also, due to their sacrificial nature, I cut their restoration time down a lot compared to the other payloads and why I provide 2 full squadrons of them on deck, as opposed to just one and a half, which I do for the others. It's also one of the reasons I cut the detectability of the French planes to 8km, as opposed to the standard 10 (some Japanese Torpedo Bombers can get as low as 7km detectability). This should allow for some undetected spotting of battleship when they open fire.

As for swapping them to ASW work when subs are implemented, I have no issue at all.

If I remember correctly, Joffre's flight group was meant to be 15 fighters (D.790) and 25 torpedo bombers (Br.810) for example. Bearn's air group varied quite a bit throughout its time, but it did have some recon elements (which was due to the different role of Bearn within the fleet than Joffre's). Since Bearn wasn't fast enough to be a fleet carrier, she carried a bit more recon than expected to enable it to still be useful on her own. I think that was something that was not needed when Joffre was being built as it was assumed that Joffre could go with the fleet and the other ships' seaplanes could take over the reconnaissance duties.

I've got that same book, however we got a lot more details in the book "Les porte-avions Clemenceau & Foch" as it lists a bit more data on all the French CV designs and their design date than Beerbaum does in his book. From there: PA5B was 238m long pp and had engines producing 110,000hp which probably means speed of about 29-30kts. PA1PC2 was 242m long pp and had engines producing 120,000hp so speed of about 30kts. These are estimations on my part btw.

PA27, PA29 & PA31 are the reasons why I'm planning to raid the French archives. I'm working with a few French historians to first pinpoint in which archives these designs might be located so that then it is just a case of going there instead of travelling through France trying to find the right archives. I'm very lucky to get the assistance of quite a few French guys that help with finding stuff and translating what I can't translate myself.

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Suffice to say, y'all had me at "French Aircraft Carrier".

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If I am not wrong, the CAO.600 was the Torpbeo/Level Bomber/Recon plane mean for the Joffres. Now with the other planes you sent me, I can move the CAO.600 back down to Tier 6 with the Carrier she was made for. I am having a little trouble finding information about the Br.810, though. At least the Nord 1500 shows a lot of promise.

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45 minutes ago, 40902nd said:

If I am not wrong, the CAO.600 was the Torpbeo/Level Bomber/Recon plane mean for the Joffres. Now with the other planes you sent me, I can move the CAO.600 back down to Tier 6 with the Carrier she was made for. I am having a little trouble finding information about the Br.810, though. At least the Nord 1500 shows a lot of promise.

"The ships were to operate an air group of around 40 planes, including 15 Dewoitine D.790 fighters (a navalised version of the Dewoitine D.520) and 25 Breguet 810 twin-engine attack planes (a navalised version of the Breguet 693) for level bombing, torpedo missions and scouting."

The CAO.600 and Dewoitine D.750 were also contemplated for service aboard the Joffres, but it seems like the Breguet 810 was the preferred choice. I will be able to confirm when I look at Warships 2010. In terms of WOWS, the Breguet 810 is a bit better than the CAO.600 while the D.750 is a bit worse than the CAO.600.

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5 hours ago, 40902nd said:

Ya, I know, but that's what they named her. I could go with Painlevé, but WG tends to go with the class name in cases like these.

 

I'm working on kicking her down a tier and I am looking for a replacement Tier 8. It shouldn't take me too much longer until I settle on one.

My source is "The French Aircraft Carriers: The Aircraft Carriers of the World Volume 3" by Simon Beerbaum. I found PA-19 listed under "Designs after 1945". This could very well be wrong, of course. The eBook was less than $4.00 USD, though, and it at least points me in the right direction. The book makes mention of a 30,000t PA 27 and PA 27º, but offers almost no information on it. It does have PA 28 "Clemenceau" and mentions a PA 29, but gives no detail for the latter. It then skips to the designs of the 1950's, with Clemenceau and Foch, and then skips to PA 58 Verdun. These latter ships are, of course, out side of the scope of the game. I'll look around more, and see what I can scrounge up, but I can't promise anything.

Duly noted. Since you brought up speed, would you happen to know the speed of the PA-PC? My reference has it unlisted, so I was at a loss.

I want to say it was because I was thinking ahead, like some sort of post-war refit, but the truth is I completely forgot about the 130mm DP guns on the Joffre. It did the conventional line first, then I stated the PA-PC line and I spent a considerable amount of time trying (and failing) to look up what the book calls 114mm. I refence the ships in-game a lot for stuff like AA values, damages values, fire chance, ect, and also as a means of filling out the nomenclature on the weapons. None of the French ships mount a dual purpose 130mm, so I just snagged the next best thing I could think of, without going to the 100mm, which were the 127mm DP on the Republiqué. It's on my list of things to change.

I was having a real heck of a time finding information of what planes were actually available to operate off of carriers. I felt I was stretching as I was when I put the Dewoitine D.750 so that I could bump the SNCAO CAO.600 up to tier 8, so I will definitely look into the Br.810 and Nord 1500. Thanks for the lead!

Honestly, the Recon Plane is something that I came up with last minute, when I was looking at how the Béarn's flight group was set up and how it seemed, to me at least, that the French put a decent amount of emphasis on reconnaissance. The main idea behind it is to make temporary areas of denial for destroyers, drop them on a smoke screen like CVs do with fighters now, and to drop them out side of enemy AA to provide spotting against things like battleships. With luck, they'd be just annoying enough to shake someone out of position to sail to them and actually deal with them. Also, due to their sacrificial nature, I cut their restoration time down a lot compared to the other payloads and why I provide 2 full squadrons of them on deck, as opposed to just one and a half, which I do for the others. It's also one of the reasons I cut the detectability of the French planes to 8km, as opposed to the standard 10 (some Japanese Torpedo Bombers can get as low as 7km detectability). This should allow for some undetected spotting of battleship when they open fire.

As for swapping them to ASW work when subs are implemented, I have no issue at all.

Painleve. LOL

I wish mine went on an expedition and never came back. I would not even send a search party. LOL:cap_win:

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@Fr0sty For the life of me, I can't find any information, other than it was a carrier-based derivative of the Bre.693, and based off of what I can find on the Bre.693 AB.2, it only had a carry capacity of 460kg, which is too light to carry even the 26DA aerial torpedo. Meanwhile, the CAO.600 could carry a 650kg torpedo (the 26DA was 674kg, but at least it is a lot closer). If you have ANY information about the Bre.693 or other French air-dropped torpedoes, I would be most thankful.

In light of not having any information, I think I'll be sticking with the CAO.600.

Also, I have (or at least I think I have) implemented just about all of your recommended changes.

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2 hours ago, 40902nd said:

@Fr0sty For the life of me, I can't find any information, other than it was a carrier-based derivative of the Bre.693, and based off of what I can find on the Bre.693 AB.2, it only had a carry capacity of 460kg, which is too light to carry even the 26DA aerial torpedo. Meanwhile, the CAO.600 could carry a 650kg torpedo (the 26DA was 674kg, but at least it is a lot closer). If you have ANY information about the Bre.693 or other French air-dropped torpedoes, I would be most thankful.

In light of not having any information, I think I'll be sticking with the CAO.600.

Also, I have (or at least I think I have) implemented just about all of your recommended changes.

image.thumb.png.6718f831fe7dd4ced650dcd948031c25.pngAsk and ye shall receive.

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@Fr0sty You wouldn't happen to have information about French aerial bombs, would you?

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1 hour ago, 40902nd said:

@Fr0sty You wouldn't happen to have information about French aerial bombs, would you?

Ngl, feel like you're not putting much effort into researching and I'm not a library... What you're asking for is readily available online, just like the Br.810 specs.

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Sorry, didn't know I was starting to bug ya, but believe me when I say that you aren't my first recourse for finding information. I've spend hours looking up planes and attempting to find munitions, but I have been coming up empty. Even that simple picture of the Br.810 you should me contains more information than I was able to come up on my own, and my Google-fu usually doesn't steer me wrong. I can find information American ordnance fairly easily, and I am sure it won't be too much work to find information on UK, German, and Japanese bombs of the same era.

French ordnance, on the other, is something that I can't find at all. I can't even find the name of them. I have zero clue as to their naming convention. I don't know their filler-to-shell ratios, either.

Mayhaps, I was too focused on finding actual French designs, though. It would be nice to use them, but I did learn just recently that American bombs had either 50% or 65% of their mass dedicated to filler and the rest to the shell (the "AN" prefix denoting the use of lighter metals for the shell, thus more mass for filler).

Included is a reference sheet for American Aerial Bombs that I found.

bombs.jpg.217e6dd0f1210e7f88a41cb0a9cb9a9b.jpg

Edit: All the articles I get when search for French aerial bombs are talking about the bombs used in the bombing of France, not about what the French carried in their planes.

Edited by 40902nd

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I know it's on the internet because that's where I got it from. I'd have to go through all of my sources to find it back again or try to do my google-fu. Sometimes things take quite a while to find or you find them while looking for other stuff. Try the French wiki, it usually has a bunch of leads at the very least.

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46 minutes ago, 40902nd said:

Thank you, kindly. 

In general, unless it's a British, American or other English-speaking nation, or if it's a German ship, you're better off searching through the resources in that language. The French and Italian stuff is usually found only on French sources so looking for "french bombs" is probably not the right way to find it. I know I found all this crap from researching in French (just like the CV designs, they're not detailed in English sources). Didn't think I'd have to mention it, but if you don't read the language (or at least a bit of it), then it'll be a nightmare from which only google translate can usually help you get out of.

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@Fr0sty Please don't hate me.

I had an epiphany while driving. [edited] is a simulator, which means they pay careful attention to detail. They have French aircraft, which means they'll have French ordnance. Worse-come-to-worse, I can use the limited selection they have there, since they also list fillings. But they also list names. Names can better refine my searches.

And you know what? Bingo.

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9 hours ago, 40902nd said:

@Fr0sty Please don't hate me.

I had an epiphany while driving. [edited] is a simulator, which means they pay careful attention to detail. They have French aircraft, which means they'll have French ordnance. Worse-come-to-worse, I can use the limited selection they have there, since they also list fillings. But they also list names. Names can better refine my searches.

And you know what? Bingo.

On the contrary, I'm glad you've managed to expand your google-fu and have reached one of the sources I used. That blog is a treasure trove of information.

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