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40902nd

Proposal: German Big-Gun Battleship Line

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After a bit of spastic inspiration and not a small bit of sleep deprivation-induced delirium, I present the results of my bout of research: German Big-Gun Battleships, or another way to put it, German Battleships based around the idea of long range combat. These ships all pack guns larger than 406mm (16-inches), with the exception of the proposed premium that could be brought into the game, which has 406mm, exactly. While the shells thrown by these battleships are slow, they pack a punch and have smaller dispersion and better Sigma values, when compared to the secondary focused battleships currently in the game. To help distinguish them from the current line, their brawling capabilities have been reduced by having a slower reload on their secondaries, removal of the hydro-acoustic search and fighter plane consumables, and a slight reduction in the response of the rudder. To offset this, starting at Tier 7, the battleships get torpedoes, though the launchers are mostly ripped directly from the Gneisenau, meaning that they shouldn't be able to just nuke everything in drive-bys.

For readability's sake, I have placed the stat blocks into spoilers, since they have gotten quite long. And sorry, no pictures for now, since I am having trouble finding good pictures of these and they are basically stretched versions of 2 different ships, so there would be a lot of 'sameness', anyway.

 

Tier VII
L 20e
Kaiser Wilhelm II

Spoiler

Displacement: 42,000t
Health: 60,400
Armor
     Main Belt: 350mm (Tapers to 30mm Ice Breaker)
     Upper Belt: 250mm
     Casemate: 170mm
     Deck: 50mm
     Barbettes: 350mm (steps down to 100mm)
     Turret Face: 350mm
     Turret Sides: 250mm
     Turret Rear: 305mm
     Turret Roof: 250mm-150mm
     Turtleback Slope: 80mm
     Citadel Bulkhead: 60mm
     Citadel Athwartship: 250mm
     Citadel Roof: 30mm
Torpedo Protection: 20%
Length: 237m (777ft 7in)
Beam: 32m (105 ft)
Speed: 25kts
Rudder Shift: 14s
Turning Circle: 845m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 13.4km/8.7km
Main Armament
4x2 16.5-inch (420mm)/45 SK L/45
     Reload: 32s
     Range: 18.1 km
     Turret 180º: 45s
     Dispersion: 225m
     Sigma: 2.00 σ
1 – 420mm Spr.Gr. L/4.1 (HE)
     Max Damage: 5,100
     Fire Chance: 37.5%
     Shell Pen: 105mm
     Muzzle Velocity: 800 m/s
2 – 420mm P.Spr.Gr. L/3.5 (AP)
     Max Damage: 12,700
     Muzzle Velocity: 800 m/s
Secondary Armament
12x1 15cm/45 SK C/09 on an MPL C/13 mount
     Reload: 8s
     Max Damage: 1,800
     Fire Chance: 10%
     Penetration: 38mm
     Range: 6.3 km
     Muzzle Velocity: 835m/s
   Base Hull
8x1 8.8cm/45 Flak on an MPL C/13 mount
     Reload: 3.9s
     Max Damage: 1,000
     Fire Chance: 4%
     Penetration: 15mm
     Range: 6.3km
     Muzzle Velocity: 890m/s
   Hull (B)
Replaces 8.8cm mounts
8x2 10.5cm/65 SK C/33 on a Dop. L. C/31 mount
     Reload: 3.2s
     Max Damage: 1,200
     Fire Chance: 5%
     Penetration: 26mm
     Range: 6.3km
     Muzzle Velocity: 900m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
   Base Hull
8x1 8.8cm/45 Flak on an MPL C/13 mount
8x2 2cm/65 C/38 on a twin mount
2x4 2cm/65 C/38 on a Flak 35 Vierling L/38 mount
8x2 3.7cm/83 SK C/30 on a Dopp. L. C/30 mount
Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 2
     Flak Damage: 840
     Continuous Damage: 175
     Range: 6.0km
Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 53
     Range: 3.5km
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 128
     Range: 2.0km
   Hull (B)
Replaces 8.8cm mounts
8x2 10.5cm/65 SK C/33 on a Dop. L. C/31 mount
8x2 2cm/65 C/38 on a twin mount
2x4 2cm/65 C/38 on a Flak 35 Vierling L/38 mount
8x2 3.7cm/83 SK C/30 on a Dopp. L. C/30 mount
Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 6
     Flak Damage: 1260
     Continuous Damage: 175
     Range: 6.0km
Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 53
     Range: 3.5km
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 128
     Range: 2.0km
Consumables
R – Damage Control Party
T – Repair Party
Y – Spotter Plane

Only a step away from the final design that would be the successor of the Bayern-Class, the L20e was designed to carry the new 42cm main gun that the German Admiralty wanted on their next generation of battleships, as they learned at the Battle of Jutland that they needed larger guns to deal with the British Queen Elizabeth-Class battleships. These ships have a reduced secondary battery when compared the the Bayern, but have better anti-air capabilities. There is not a lot, if any, armor improvement, but given the turtleback, citadels should be rare.

 

Tier VIII
L 24e α
Hessen

Spoiler

Displacement: 45,000t
Health: 64,000
Armor
     Main Belt: 350mm (Tapers to 30mm Ice Breaker)
     Upper Belt: 250mm
     Casemate: 170mm
     Deck: 50mm
     Barbettes: 350mm (steps down to 100mm)
     Turret Face: 350mm
     Turret Sides: 250mm
     Turret Rear: 305mm
     Turret Roof: 250mm-150mm
     Turtleback Slope: 80mm
     Citadel Bulkhead: 60mm
     Citadel Athwartship: 250mm
     Citadel Roof: 30mm
Torpedo Protection: 22%
Length: 240m (787ft 5in)
Beam: 33.5m (109ft 11in)
Speed: 27.5 kts
Rudder Shift: 16s
Turning Circle: 845m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 13.4km/8.7km
Main Armament
4x2 16.5-inch (420mm)/45 SK L/45
     Reload: 28.6s
     Range: 22.1km
     Turret 180º: 36s
     Dispersion: 220m
     Sigma: 2.00 σ
1 – 420mm Spr.Gr. L/4.1 (HE)
     Max Damage: 5,100
     Fire Chance: 37.5%
     Shell Pen: 105mm
     Muzzle Velocity: 800 m/s
2 – 420mm P.Spr.Gr. L/3.5 (AP)
     Max Damage: 12,700
     Muzzle Velocity: 800 m/s
Torpedo Armament
   Base
4x1 600mm H8
     Reload: 24s
     Max Damage: 10,800
     Flood Chance: 280%
     Speed: 54kts
     Range: 6.0km
     Detectability: 1.4km
   Upgrade
4x1 700mm J9
     Reload: 27s
     Max Damage: 16,200
     Flood Chance: 280%
     Speed: 43kts
     Range: 9.0km (18.0km in real life)
     Detectability: 1.4km
Secondary Armament
12x1 15cm/45 SK C/09 on an MPL C/13 mount
     Reload: 7.5s
     Max Damage: 1,800
     Fire Chance: 10%
     Penetration: 38mm
     Range: 7.6 km
     Muzzle Velocity: 835m/s
8x2 10.5cm/65 SK C/33 on a Dop. L. C/31 mount
     Reload: 3.0s
     Max Damage: 1,200
     Fire Chance: 5%
     Penetration: 26mm
     Range: 7.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 900m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
8x2 10.5cm/65 SK C/33 on a Dop. L. C/31 mount
8x2 2cm/65 C/38 on a twin mount
2x4 2cm/65 C/38 on a Flak 35 Vierling L/38 mount
8x2 3.7cm/83 SK C/30 on a Dopp. L. C/30 mount
Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 6
     Flak Damage: 1260
     Continuous Damage: 175
     Range: 6.0km
Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 53
     Range: 3.5km
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 128
     Range: 2.0km
Consumables
R – Damage Control Party
T – Repair Party
Y – Spotter Plane

The competitor to the L 20e α, which was actually selected to be built as the next class of battleships for the German Navy, the L 24e α differs by being longer (and thus displacing more) and slightly faster. Also, while the L 20e α mounted it's torpedoes underwater, the L 24e α opted to carry them above water, so I have chosen to mount them singlely in the casemate, much like Mutsu. This means that they reload quickly and have a very narrow spread, but it also means they have a narrow arc of fire. Damage is calculated based on the amount of Hexanite, based on damage per kilogram derived from the G7a T1. Other than the torpedoes, she doesn't really stand out too much, compared to her tiermates, but she is noteworthy in that she'd have the largest guns at her tier.

 

Tier IX
H-41
Kaiser Karl de Grosse

Spoiler

Displacement: 68,800t
Health: 91,200
Armor
     Main Belt: 300mm
     Upper Belt: 200mm
     Extended Belt: 150mm to 60mm
     Deck: 80mm over magazines, 50mm elsewhere
     Armored Deck: 200mm over magazines, 150mm over machine spaces
     Barbettes: 365mm above armored deck, 240mm below
     Barbettes, 15cm: 80mm
     Turret Face: 385mm
     Turret Sides: 240mm
     Turret Rear: 325mm
     Turret Roof: 130mm
     Turtleback Slope: 175mm over magazines, 120mm over machine spaces
     Citadel Bulkhead: 45mm (60mm near turrets)
     Citadel Athwartship: 250mm
     Citadel Roof: 80mm over magazines, 50mm over machine spaces
Torpedo Protection: 30%
Length: 282m (925ft 2in)
Beam: 39m (127ft 11in)
Speed: 28.8kts
Rudder Shift: 25s
Turning Circle: 950m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 16.75km/13.0km
Main Armament
4x2 16.5-inch (420mm)/48 SK C/40 on a Drh LC/34 mount
     Reload: 28s
     Range: 22.5km
     Turret 180º: 28s
     Dispersion: 225m
     Sigma: 2.00 σ
1 – 420mm Spr.Gr. L/4.6 Kz (HE)
     Max Damage: 5,000
     Fire Chance: 40.0%
     Shell Pen: 105mm
     Muzzle Velocity: 800m/s
2 – 420mm AP
     Max Damage: 13,500
     Muzzle Velocity: 800 m/s
Torpedo Armament
2x3 533mm G7a T1
     Reload: 68s
     Max Damage: 13,700
     Flood Chance: 227%
     Speed: 64kts
     Range: 6.0km
     Detectability: 1.3km
Secondary Armament
6x2 15cm/55 SK C/28 on an Dop. L. C/34 mount
     Reload: 7.5s
     Max Damage: 1,700
     Fire Chance: 8.0%
     Penetration: 38mm
     Range: 7.95km
     Muzzle Velocity: 875m/s
8x2 10.5cm/65 SK C/33 on a Dop. L. C/37 mount
     Reload: 3.4s
     Max Damage: 1,200
     Fire Chance: 5.0%
     Penetration: 26mm
     Range: 7.95km
     Muzzle Velocity: 900m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
8x2 10.5cm/65 SK C/33 on a Dop. L. C/31 mount
8x4 2cm/65 C/38 on a Flak 35 Vierling L/38 mount
1x2 2cm/65 C/38 on a twin mount
16x2 3.7cm/83 SK C/30 on a Dopp. L. C/30 mount
Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 7
     Flak Damage: 1690
     Continuous Damage: 177
     Range: 6.0km
Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 315
     Range: 3.5km
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 112
     Range: 2.0km
Consumables
R – Damage Control Party
T – Repair Party
Y – Spotter Plane

An actual H-Class battleship design, instead of the hybrid design that serves as the base for the FDG and his derivatives. As I can't find any dimensions for the FDG, I can't tell you which is longer, but the H-41 should be heavier, just judging by the HP, but that is only if WG stuck close for the formula for it.

 

Tier X
H-42
Schleswig-Holstein

Spoiler

Displacement: 90,000t
Health: 117,100
Armor
     Main Belt: 300mm
     Upper Belt: 200mm
     Extended Belt: 150mm to 60mm
     Deck: 80mm over magazines, 50mm elsewhere
     Armored Deck: 200mm over magazines, 150mm over machine spaces
     Barbettes: 365mm above armored deck, 240mm below
     Barbettes, 15cm: 80mm
     Turret Face: 385mm
     Turret Sides: 240mm
     Turret Rear: 325mm
     Turret Roof: 130mm
     Turtleback Slope: 175mm over magazines, 120mm over machine spaces
     Citadel Bulkhead: 45mm (60mm near turrets)
     Citadel Athwartship: 250mm
     Citadel Roof: 80mm over magazines, 50mm over machine spaces
Torpedo Protection: 30%
Length: 305m (1,000ft 8in)
Beam: 42.8m (140ft 5in)
Speed: 31.9kts
Rudder Shift: 22.5s
Turning Circle: 1170m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 18km/15km
Main Armament
4x2 19-inch (483mm)/50 SKC42 in a turret
     Reload: 30s
     Range: 23.0km
     Turret 180º: 34s
     Dispersion: 234m
     Sigma: 2.00 σ
1 – 483mm Spr.Gr. L/4.4
     Max Damage: 5,500
     Fire Chance: 39%
     Shell Pen: 121mm
     Muzzle Velocity: 810m/s
2 – 483mm P.Spr.Gr. L/4.4
     Max Damage: 17,300
     Muzzle Velocity: 800 m/s
Torpedo Armament
2x3 533mm G7a T1
     Reload: 68s
     Max Damage: 13,700
     Flood Chance: 227%
     Speed: 64kts
     Range: 6.0km
     Detectability: 1.3km
Secondary Armament
6x2 15cm/55 SK C/28 on an Dop. L. C/34 mount
     Reload: 7.5s
     Max Damage: 1,700
     Fire Chance: 8.0%
     Penetration: 38mm
     Range: 8.3km
     Muzzle Velocity: 875m/s
8x2 10.5cm/65 SK C/33 on a Dop. L. C/37 mount
     Reload: 3.4s
     Max Damage: 1,200
     Fire Chance: 5.0%
     Penetration: 26mm
     Range: 8.3km
     Muzzle Velocity: 900m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
8x2 10.5cm/65 SK C/33 on a Dop. L. C/31 mount
10x4 2cm/65 C/38 on a Flak 35 Vierling L/38 mount
14x2 3.7cm/83 SK C/30 on a Dopp. L. C/30 mount
Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 7
     Flak Damage: 1,610
     Continuous Damage: 144
     Range: 6.0km
Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 276
     Range: 3.5km
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 135
     Range: 2.0km
Consumables
R – Damage Control Party
T – Repair Party
Y – Spotter Plane

Sort of like a Grosse Kurfurst with Hannover guns, the H-42 differs by having a thinner belt and turtleback over the machine spaces, but makes up that by having a thicker turtleback and decking over the magazines. While I can't find the thickness of the Athwart Bulkheads, it wouldn't be a stretch to give the H-42 the same sort of tappering as found on Hannover. This, however, might not even be needed, as it is hard enough to citadel a GK as-is. I know there are people who are proficient in doing it, but mostly, I've only seen that at close range and usually with a stationary GK, not one actively maneuvering. The triple torpedo launchers this ship has will also help disway people attempting to line up for the shot, too.

Gun-wise, he sits between the 18-inch and 20-inch guns of the IJN, which is perfect.

 

Tier VIII =Premium=
H-39
Wittelsbach

Spoiler

Displacement: 56,444t
Health: 77,500
Armor
     Main Belt: 300mm
     Upper Belt: 145mm
     Extended Belt: 150mm to 60mm
     Deck: 50mm
     Armored Deck: 120mm over magazines, 100mm over machine spaces
     Barbettes: 365mm above armored deck, 240mm below
     Barbettes, 15cm: 80mm
     Turret Face: 385mm
     Turret Sides: 240mm
     Turret Rear: 325mm
     Turret Roof: 130mm
     Turtleback Slope: 150mm over magazines, 120mm over machine spaces
     Citadel Bulkhead: 45mm (60mm near turrets)
     Citadel Athwartship: 250mm
     Citadel Roof: 80mm over magazines, 50mm over machine spaces
Length: 277.8m (911ft 5in)
Beam: 37m (121ft 5in)
Speed: 31.9kts
Rudder Shift: 22.5s
Turning Circle: 1170m
Detectability By Air/Sea: 15.9km/12.1km
Main Armament
4x2 16-inch (406mm)/52 SK C/34 on a Drh LC/34 mount
     Reload: 30s
     Range: 22.0km
     Turret 180º: 32s
     Dispersion: 215m
     Sigma: 2.00 σ
1 – 406mm Spr.Gr. L/4.4 Kz.
     Max Damage: 4,800
     Fire Chance: 38%
     Shell Pen: 102mm
     Muzzle Velocity: 810m/s
2 – 406mm P.Spr.Gr. L/4.4
     Max Damage: 12,700
     Muzzle Velocity: 810 m/s
Torpedo Armament
2x3 533mm G7a T1
     Reload: 68s
     Max Damage: 13,700
     Flood Chance: 227%
     Speed: 64kts
     Range: 6.0km
     Detectability: 1.3km
Secondary Armament
6x2 15cm/55 SK C/28 on an Dop. L. C/34 mount
     Reload: 7.5s
     Max Damage: 1,700
     Fire Chance: 8.0%
     Penetration: 38mm
     Range: 7.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 875m/s
8x2 10.5cm/65 SK C/33 on a Dop. L. C/37 mount
     Reload: 3.4s
     Max Damage: 1,200
     Fire Chance: 5.0%
     Penetration: 26mm
     Range: 7.6km
     Muzzle Velocity: 900m/s
Anti-Aircraft Armament
8x2 10.5cm/65 SK C/33 on a Dop. L. C/31 mount
6x2 2cm/65 C/38 on a twin mount
8x2 3.7cm/83 SK C/30 on a Dopp. L. C/30 mount
Long Range AA
     Flak Burst: 6
     Flak Damage: 1690
     Continuous Damage: 89
     Range: 6.0km
Medium Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 157
     Range: 3.5km
Short Range AA
     Continuous Damage: 112
     Range: 2.0km
Consumables
R – Damage Control Party
T – Repair Party
Y – Spotter Plane

The H-39 is basically a Tirpitz that trades a torp on each side, as well as size armor in both the main belt and upper belt for a better extended belt, better turtleback over the magazines, and better Athwartship Citadel Bulkheads and trades brawling ability for long range accuracy.

 

Thanks for taking the time to get this far. Please leave a comment with your thoughts, and if you want more history on these ships, just say so.

Edited by 40902nd
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I like the concept anyway. Not sure whether they're all the best possible choices and I'd rather not use state and province names for H-class BBs (limit those to Kaiserliche Marine designs and use more Kriegsmarine-appropriate names for the later ships). But a big gun line of German BBs would be something worth doing eventually.

Might I recommend Friedrich Barbarossa as the name for the H-42 at T10?

Edited by Lord_Magus
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T9 Lothringen

Interesting name choice as the French T9 BB is the Alsace.

Alsace-Lorraine (German: Elsaß-Lothringen) has been contested between Germany and France for years and was one reason why France joined the party in WW1.

Currently part of France it is a very nice area, great food and wine.

Strassburg and Colmar are two cities there that are well worth visiting.

The architecture in the region clearly shows the German past.

 

...and did I mention the grrreat regional cuisine?  :-)

 

 

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2 hours ago, Lord_Magus said:

I like the concept anyway. Not sure whether they're all the best possible choices and I'd rather not use state and province names for H-class BBs (limit those to Kaiserliche Marine designs and use more Kriegsmarine-appropriate names for the later ships). But a big gun line of German BBs would be something worth doing eventually.

Actually, I named him after the SMS Lothringen, in keeping with the Kriegsmarine tradition to name ships after previous ships. I must admit, I did not look into the origins of the name. I'll pick another (as well as comb through the other names, just to be sure).

Schleswig-Holstein is actually an Easter-egg for my own amusement, as the two Bismarck-class ships were Ersatz Hannover and Ersatz Schleswig-Holstein, before being given their names. However, other than that little bit of useless trivia, I have no particular attachment to the name.

I am open to suggestions about designs, but I do have trouble finding information about the Kaiserliche Marine ships. I've found what I needed to make the list work, but I don't have designs like I was able to find for the battlecruisers.

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