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WhiteTulip

Is this the Golden Age of Cruisers?

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Just going to pose the question and see what answers come up. I have my own reasons to answer in the affirmative, but I don't want to influence anyone else's opinion. I'll answer after others have had a chance.

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Depends if the CR can ambush DDs effectively without the BBs taking potshots.

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No, the golden age of cruisers was that couple of weeks (maybe a bit longer, can't remember it that well) when cruisers essentially had no citadels.

Some kind of bug made it almost impossible to score citadels, so cruisers were at least as survivable as BBs and had much higher damage.

It was silly and glorious at the same time.

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40 minutes ago, WhiteTulip said:

Just going to pose the question and see what answers come up. I have my own reasons to answer in the affirmative, but I don't want to influence anyone else's opinion. I'll answer after others have had a chance.

Nah cruiser numbers are kinda hurting right now. Though they are certainly in a better place then right after the skill rework now that deadeye is gone. 
 

if anything it’s a DD revival right now.

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It is true for cruisers the trend looks like a reduction in predators (BBs) and ample food (DDs), yet this mostly benefits DD hunting cruisers, not so much long range spammers. I think it is hard to say something about cruisers all over the board, they are too varied to fit them all in the same jacket.

IMO they also lack a "direct" advantage, so far it has been a more circunstancial situation where stuff happening elsewhere has a positive side effect for them (like the removal of Deadeye). 

Otoh, the trend would probably set up for good when the new Dutch line goes live, cruiser numbers will definitively increase, the question is: at the expense of whom?

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1 hour ago, WhiteTulip said:

Just going to pose the question and see what answers come up. I have my own reasons to answer in the affirmative, but I don't want to influence anyone else's opinion. I'll answer after others have had a chance.

*Light* cruisers have been strong for a while now. Between HE spamming, improved shell ranges, and DPM arms race cruisers are very comfortable despite occasionally exploding spectacularly. The old equation of risk (pushing up) vs reward (farming BBs) has gone very much towards the reward. Still, with CVs, you're not allowed to be the true apex predator.  

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As originally a cruiser main, though now I seem to play DD's more, I'm starting to bring my cruisers back.  The change to rocket planes and removal of deadeye has left more DD's in matches, and less BB's, which makes things a little easier for my CLs.  Surprisingly there's been no change in the number of carriers playing, and my cruisers have much better AA capability than my destroyers do, so I've gotten a lot more chances to shoot down planes that are trying to go after bigger targets when they can't hit the DD's anymore.  Always fun to see a squadron of planes flying in towards me or a nearby destroyer, pop my AA consumables, and see that squadron disappear before it can ever start an attack run.

I do still think that cruisers are not in a great spot survivability wise.  It's just too easy for them to get deleted by one lucky battleship salvo.

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Cruisers are in a rough spot taking some of the most concentrated effort to play well. Yes, outsiders that can long-range spam HE have a chance but most cruisers with small ranges dont. There are a large number of over-capable DDs and a larger number of big-gun BBs that dont care about cruiser armor. So you end up spotted, outranged, and outgunned if you're not playing your best game every second of the match. Tack on RNG that guides that one shell from the clumping of shells you dodge, directly into your citadel and that's probably a quarter of your health in a CA.

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High tier cruisers...especially t10...yes...They are tremendous atm....mid tier cruisers?...eh....There's a lot to not like about playing mid tier cruisers...with exceptions of course...most of those get a heal or smoke...

Edited by Almedius

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55 minutes ago, Almedius said:

High tier cruisers...especially t10...yes...They are tremendous atm....mid tier cruisers?...eh....There's a lot to not like about playing mid tier cruisers...with exceptions of course...most of those get a heal or smoke...

You point an important difference here, the cruiser experience can't be generalized with blanket statements. For example, the T8 no heal cruiser experience has no resemblance at all with the very strong and  resilient T10 cruisers. A Tallin or a Chappy are in no way comparable to a Petro or Nevsky, Hipper is a long shot from Hindenburg, etc... and they end facing T10 BBs all the same, even high end DDs can out trade you under the right circumstances.

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4 hours ago, Kartaugh said:

No, the golden age of cruisers was that couple of weeks (maybe a bit longer, can't remember it that well) when cruisers essentially had no citadels.

Some kind of bug made it almost impossible to score citadels, so cruisers were at least as survivable as BBs and had much higher damage.

It was silly and glorious at the same time.

Don't forget the time when AFT & BFT used to buff 155mm and smaller guns.  That was a wonderful era for Light Cruisers.  An old post of mine from October 2015:

On 10/23/2015 at 10:12 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

With Tier 4 Advanced Firing Training Trait, Hull-B, Gunfire Control System Modules, and Main Gun Accuracy Upgrade...

5L6Gdgv.jpg

Her Max AA range is now 6.0km.  My Tier VI Elite Cleveland with the same trait has max range of 17.6km.

19.8km max gun range Konigsberg.  I remember sniping CVs in the backline as long as there was something to spot them.  I did this on Ocean map.  Our CV would go in and hit the enemy CV in the backline with torps / bombs, causing Floods / Fires that the enemy CV would use DCP on.  I'd hold my gunfire until the timer for the DCP was over, then I'd HE spam at long range, get a bunch of Pens, set a few Fires, then run away from the enemy CV's very angry friends.  Watch the enemy CV burn down.  Glorious days!

Old Tier VI Cleveland reaching out to 17.6km.

Tier V Omaha had the nickname "OPmaha" at the time.

 

Things changed drastically when WG changed the AFT & BFT criteria.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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6 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Don't forget the time when AFT & BFT used to buff 155mm and smaller guns.  That was a wonderful era for Light Cruisers.  An old post of mine from October 2015:

19.8km max gun range Konigsberg.  I remember sniping CVs in the backline as long as there was something to spot them.  I did this on Ocean map.  Our CV would go in and hit the enemy CV in the backline with torps / bombs, causing Floods / Fires that the enemy CV would use DCP on.  I'd hold my gunfire until the timer for the DCP was over, then I'd HE spam at long range, get a bunch of Pens, set a few Fires, then run away from the enemy CV's very angry friends.  Watch the enemy CV burn down.  Glorious days!

Old Tier VI Cleveland reaching out to 17.6km.

Tier V Omaha had the nickname "OPmaha" at the time.

 

Things changed drastically when WG changed the AFT & BFT criteria.

If I'm not much mistaken, the two epochs overlap in time.

The non-citadel cruisers also had the full benefits of AFT/BFT.

Glorious.

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No. It's the Golden Age of DDs given they have gotten a lot of what counters them nerfed and are now running rampant.

It's a Dark Age for everyone else.

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The meta has shifted a bit to cruisers and destroyers in my current experience. The days of five battleships and only two or three cruisers or destroyers per team seem to have settled down.

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Why the hell would you even bring a cruiser?...   Whatever you want to do with the exception of radar( in most cases ).. There's a DD that can do it better.   

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The first time I really had fun in this game was when I discovered the Omaha with Adrenaline Rush. Now I have the Dallas with Adrenaline Rush and IFHE. I just sail around in circles continuously shooting and setting BBs on fire. They are very fragile though.

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38 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

Why the hell would you even bring a cruiser?...   

The challenge :Smile_playing:

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5 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

The challenge :Smile_playing:

Conceded... there is that. 

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3 hours ago, iRA6E said:

Why the hell would you even bring a cruiser?...   Whatever you want to do with the exception of radar( in most cases ).. There's a DD that can do it better.   

You might bring a cruiser because you like having a mix of all classes tied into one thing. Getting shot at? Dodge a bit. Need to shoot something? 203 guns do lots of damage. CV bothering you? Quicky find a friendly BB/CA. DD's need rooting out? Radar for that. Its a high risk class for sure but it has its upsides in flexibility, utility, adequate firepower, and agility. BB's are a very dependent class and they are not my top choice these days.

Edited by Drifter_X
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I have been having far better games with my DD's than my cruisers. I am having a much easier time playing stealthy little torp boats. Surprisingly, I have been having a very good with Yudachi in ranked the last few nights. Gunboat DD's seem to be even stronger and I am seeing a lot more of them. Belfast and Boise have been the only mid tier cruisers that I can seem to make work well.

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17 hours ago, Kartaugh said:

If I'm not much mistaken, the two epochs overlap in time.

The non-citadel cruisers also had the full benefits of AFT/BFT.

Glorious.

Toss in Stealth Fire also, if you had a high enough points captain to take Concealment Expert, then you were looking very good.

 

The problem for true, Full Stealth Builds at the time was Concealment Expert was a Tier 5 skill.  At that time frame, not that many had the points to do Full Stealth.  CE was very expensive to afford in a build to the point that a bunch of Destroyers lacked the trait, and that had big ramifications in the "Haves" and "Have Nots."

 

Found an old image of the skill tree in 2015.  Source of the image is from a July 2015 thread, the game launched a few months later, but it did have the 5 tiers of traits at launch.

LbbxZmY.jpg?1

CE was a Tier 5 trait, costing 5 points.  Very expensive to get.  I remember running into lots of DD players that lacked CE.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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7 hours ago, iRA6E said:

Why the hell would you even bring a cruiser?...   Whatever you want to do with the exception of radar( in most cases ).. There's a DD that can do it better.   

 

4 hours ago, Drifter_X said:

You might bring a cruiser because you like having a mix of all classes tied into one thing. Getting shot at? Dodge a bit. Need to shoot something? 203 guns do lots of damage. CV bothering you? Quicky find a friendly BB/CA. DD's need rooting out? Radar for that. Its a high risk class for sure but it has its upsides in flexibility, utility, adequate firepower, and agility. BB's are a very dependent class and they are not my top choice these days.

^This.  Cruisers might not be the best at any one thing, but they have tools to deal with any situation.  Rarely do I feel like I’m being hunted with little ability to fight back when I play a cruiser.

I don’t necessarily think this is a “Golden Age” for cruisers, but there ARE a lot of DDs playing, so it is a good time to play a (radar) cruiser.

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