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XVirtusX

Heavy Ap Shells... Worth It?

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I'm grinding down the line for DM. Is this skill good on it? Also, would you guys recommend RL for DM?

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42 minutes ago, XVirtusX said:

I'm grinding down the line for DM. Is this skill good on it? Also, would you guys recommend RL for DM?

I do use it for my USN heavy cruisers, think it improved my overall average damage. Will need to collect data to make sure though 

Edited by Boomer625

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On Des Moines, I’d say no. Generally the heavy AP skill is most effective on German ships, cruisers with a caliber of 210+ caliber, or super cruisers.

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Just now, MBT808 said:

On Des Moines, I’d say no. Generally the heavy AP skill is most effective on German ships, cruisers with a caliber of 210+ caliber, or super cruisers.

On Petro line would be good then?

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53 minutes ago, XVirtusX said:

I'm grinding down the line for DM. Is this skill good on it? Also, would you guys recommend RL for DM?

The DM is a citadel monster with AP vs other cruisers that are unwary enough to broadside it. I use the skill. I don't know how much it helps but it sure doesn't hurt. Radio Location I don't use. If I'm detected and can't see anything then I'll just pop my radar. The Des Moines isn't going to stealth cap anything if a DD is around and you really don't want to be out in front where half the enemy team is going to fire on you. You aren't going to chase down many DDs in the DM either.

I use Radio Location on my Gearing because it lets me know if there is something near a cap and whether or not to fire my torps into smoke.

Edited by Snargfargle
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No.

Dont understand the no? Refer to the excessive burning in which your vessal immolates itself.

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58 minutes ago, MBT808 said:

On Des Moines, I’d say no. Generally the heavy AP skill is most effective on German ships, cruisers with a caliber of 210+ caliber, or super cruisers.

 

I use on Graf Spee myself

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15 minutes ago, xHeavy said:

Dont understand the no? Refer to the excessive burning in which your vessal immolates itself.

You know that the skill has no downside for cruisers and DDs, right?

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This is my build here:

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PASC020&modules=1111&upgrades=141223&commander=PCW001&skills=4539673&ar=100&consumables=1111&pos=0

image.png.6e866141388bf92a9c99a4b9b8706592.png

Not really optimal, I admit, but it works for now. You could definitely swap the slot 3 module to ASM1 for better accuracy and the double turret traverse is kinda overkill. It is nice in brawls though, hence the TPG. Also GunFeeder is not necessary with DM, however there is something to be said about being able to instantly switch to AP/HE when needed (broadsides etc.).

IFA and PT are also a bit redundant, but I was working with this as a 19pt captain and didn't want to retrain him yet. With reload I would go most likely with this:

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PASC020&modules=1111&upgrades=144221&commander=PCW001&skills=4572169&ar=100&consumables=1111&pos=0

However, there are plenty of ways to do this. Range Mod is almost better in the current meta:

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PASC020&modules=1111&upgrades=154222&commander=PCW001&skills=4440345&ar=100&flags=3540&consumables=1111&pos=0

 

 

Edited by shinytrashcan
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I use heavy AP on my DM, Petro, Stalin, Alaska, Agir, and once i get Sigfried, I'll use it on that too. Worth it for ships with high DPM(for even higher DPM) and ships with a big AP alpha(for and even bigger alpha hit)

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There's no real downside to taking it other than those 3 points could be used elsewhere. Are you willing to give up another 3 points skill, or a 2 point and a 1 point skill, etc. for that extra damage?

 

Basically, are you willing to trade your other skill(s) for more AP damage? that's a question only you can answer.

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3 hours ago, XVirtusX said:

I'm grinding down the line for DM. Is this skill good on it? Also, would you guys recommend RL for DM?

Think of it as another form of BFT...instead of faster reload resulting in more DPM you get the same reload doing more damage per shell resulting in more DPM...

But you need to take 2 different skills now to buff both AP & HE (or SAP)...but they can be used on any calibur guns as opposed to just the lower calibur ones with BFT...although for the HE (or SAP) there's a penalty to the higher calibur guns iirc.

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305mm and above, it works fine. But having said that, high rate of fire dictates whether 203mm would benefit.

DM sort of would benefit if you like to hit with AP. The modest increase would add up and you would citadel more. Since WG scores higher for citadels, this is a good way to get XP.

But you do give up something else. Like all skills, picking the right one is not without its drawbacks. You just have to be willing to do it despite that.

If the skill plays to your strengths, then use it.

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21 hours ago, XVirtusX said:

I'm grinding down the line for DM. Is this skill good on it? Also, would you guys recommend RL for DM?

Here's an uncomfortable truth with USN Heavy Cruisers.  Despite the special AP bounce angles of USN CAs, they are still situational shells and you still will fire HE most of the time.

 

In addition, Heavy AP grants a mere +5% damage bonus for 3 precious points.  Going from 5000 -> 5250 points of damage.

 

3pts for a very minor damage improvement for a situational shell is not a good expenditure, IMO.

Edit:  I wouldn't even get this skill if it costed 1 point.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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20 hours ago, shinytrashcan said:

You know that the skill has no downside for cruisers and DDs, right?

Actually it does, it uses up 3 points out of your build

 

:Smile_trollface:

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

In addition, Heavy AP grants a mere +5% damage bonus for 3 precious points.  Going from 5000 -> 5250 points of damage.

I think I got "Heavy AP" confused with "Heavy SAP," which adds 10% damage to both HE and AP shells. I think that's the one I have on my Des Moines.

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23 hours ago, XVirtusX said:

I'm grinding down the line for DM. Is this skill good on it? Also, would you guys recommend RL for DM?

I use it. It isn't trully "good" in that it doesn't give a huge benefit,  and it is rather expensive, but truthfully there aren't a whole lot of no-brainer good choices for CAs. DM's AP is very reliable. You will be firing AP as often as you can on almost anything that is not bow-on or a DD. AP into superstructure, upper belt, bow or stern will work on most BBs as long as it isn't super far away or super angled. HE is nice but the damage is terrible and the fire chance isn't great either. Heavy HE just makes it a bit less terrible and on top of the cost it makes you easier to spot, and therefore kill. I use HE to fish for a fire then fire AP as often as I can and I keep firing it until it continually bounces off of something. 

DM gets good use out of Superintendent. That one is well worth it.  Adrenaline Rush never hurts (although the damage you have to take to make it work does), but if you are hugging your waifus properly you don't get reliable use out of it. I take Superintendent for my first 3 pointer on DM and heavy AP as my second one (after taking Concealment Expert). 

Overall, it is a good solid skill for DM. Not great, but solid. There are other valid choices you can take at that tier but none of them scream "you must take  me" any more than Heavy AP does. It's down to your playstyle. 

For me that does not hold true for all CAs. I don't use it for the UK CAs for example. I haven't found their AP to be very reliable and I rarely use it unless I am broadside to a CA or CL. Ditto for the IJN. The lack of improved autobounce or extra pen or somethign like that makes their AP a less reliable performer than DMs and thus there is less reason to put skills into buffing it. On the other hand their HE is actually quite good so you will be using it a lot more than DM tends to. 

I do use it for Petro. She's closer to DM for me. Her AP is very good while her HE is middling at best and hampered further by a fairly slow reload. 

As for RL, if you mean Radio Location, no I don't use it on DM. With long-acting radar and concealment expert I think it is unnecessary on DM. If DM is playing the objective (and few ships do that better than DM) they have to come to you and the difference between your detection and radar range is very small. If you are spotted and can't see it, wait 5 sec and radar.  I use RL on my torpedoboat DDs like Asashio and Shimakaze so I can avoid blundering into enemy gunboat DDs. I would use it on gunboat DDs but I never have enough points to spare. 

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I like the Heavy AP on my Alaska, Salem, DM, and Buffalo. I also noticed some improvement with my Graff Spee. 

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Heavy AP should be the last skill you consider.  Take all the rate of fire skills first.  Is it worth it?  Its an ok choice.

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13 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Here's an uncomfortable truth with USN Heavy Cruisers.  Despite the special AP bounce angles of USN CAs, they are still situational shells and you still will fire HE most of the time.

 

In addition, Heavy AP grants a mere +5% damage bonus for 3 precious points.  Going from 5000 -> 5250 points of damage.

 

3pts for a very minor damage improvement for a situational shell is not a good expenditure, IMO.

Edit:  I wouldn't even get this skill if it costed 1 point.

I use it on my Yoshino in coop just because damage is king.  In randoms there are probably a lot of better ways to spend 3 pts.

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11 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

I think I got "Heavy AP" confused with "Heavy SAP," which adds 10% damage to both HE and AP shells. I think that's the one I have on my Des Moines.

It does not boost AP, only HE and SAP at the expense of concealment.  

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