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Dr_Venture

The cost of playing is too darn high!

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A few years ago, I started a campaign to bring the cost of high-tier play to Wargaming's attention. For months, I went around the forums of every server I could - EU/RU/NA and asked the same question - is the cost of high tier play too high? I started the conversation, I engaged people who, like me, love to play this game, and we showed wargaming the numbers - people wanted a change.

Eventually, Wargaming relented - they lowered the cost of the high-tier play. I like to think I had at least SOME positive influence on that one and for once, my complaining did some good. 

Well, I’m back! This time on a new crusade - fixing the poor economics of this game.

Like many of you, I’m sitting here playing clan battles, randoms, ranked, brawls, and I’m noticing that my flags are going out faster than I can replace them. My credits are drastically flying out the door because I simply cannot afford the steep price for the flags needed (even with a coupon) to stay competitive - to keep myself alive a bit longer in the meta - to help my team carry the day - to simply feel like I’m having an impact - to feel like I’m making progress when I grind a line (you know the things that keeps a player playing/spending…)

“But Dr. Venture - why don’t you have the massive credit/flag stockpile as I do?” 

Easy answer - because I play this game. Night after night, I log in and play with my clan. We play randoms, ranked, brawls, clan battles, I stream on twitch, we have a good time. I grind lines with my friends, who through this pandemic have made a difference in my life. 

Since 10.4 hit - we’re all feeling it - the pinch - the screws - the seeming punishment for playing - PAY UP.

It truly feels like it’s become much harder to play this game, and even harder to recommend it to people. Between the commander rework, high tiered steel/coal ships, research bureau grinding, early access, “adjusting CV mechanics” and just grinding lines..there have been some seriously questionable moves by wargaming.

Look I get it, they want to make money. They want to funnel people into buying the products they put out. Yet at what point does the consumer figure out they aren’t getting quality for the time/money they invest??

Was turning flags into basically gold rounds quality? I truly believe it’s safe to say that flags have become the new “gold rounds” of WoWS. In order for you to compete, to have an edge, to not get detonated for example - you gotta fork over ALOT more for those flags. Oh but what about the flag crates that replaced achievements? You gotta grind for those...to get a small number of flags...the payout for that grind does not compensate for the time spent, the flags spent, and the flag RNG is random and 9/10 you get nothing of any real use.

In the old days - you could get flags for being good at the game. Achievements for killing someone first, killing someone brawling, damaging a good portion of the team, setting fires, hell detonating...gave you something. Wargaming rewarded you for playing - this had a positive effect - you felt good for playing - hell even detonating - people would comment in chat “hey free flags bro!” Now - First Blood? High Caliber? Arsonist? These achievements no longer have meaning now - it’s become a joke “You got a gold star!” 

See, I thought long and hard before I posted this. I wanted to exhaust every option before I jumped on here. Sure I could play Musashi all night long - but then I’m right back in the same position in less than a week because the cost of buying flags (for say clan wars/grinding) would damn near undo the work I put in just to get them. A single night of clan wars - regardless of win or loss - will drain me. Grinding a line will drain me. Buying new ships, and outfitting them will drain me. I’m honestly finding it difficult to keep up with the credit drain between progressing lines (IE playing new content) and putting flags on the ships to make a difference (IE not detonate.) - oh and I’m also paying wargaming for premium time!

The personal issue is that I now have to budget the economics of this game like I do in real life. Am I wrong in saying that when a game starts to mimic the world you’re trying to tune out for a few hours...it ceases to be fun?

Wargaming, please for the love of whatever deity your team worships...address this quickly. I understand why you did it - you wanted to wipe out the population who is hoarding credits/flags...but the rest of us are truly suffering. It is driving people away, it is souring the positive feeling of actually playing. 

It’s ridiculous that some flags are over 2 million credits for 20. It may not seem much by itself - but when you have to buy other flags you can bankrupt yourself quickly. 

For the players: Do you think the economics of this game has truly gotten worse? What are your thoughts? What would you suggest wargaming do?

What can you - the player - do?

GONDOR CALLS FOR AID!

Share this thread/copy and paste it in your discords - Reddit - other servers. GET-PEOPLE-TALKING. 

Together we can make a difference - we're all suffering - if we speak loud enough, and in one unified voice - they will listen. DD main, CV main, BB-CA - all of us - we're in this together!

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It doesn't matter what you say wargaming will do their own thing, My game crashed so I asked Wargaming to refund the camo and about 10 flags, sounds reasonable due to the reduction in the ability to ear flags, (on average I would ear 70 of most of them each week)  This lead to a 3-day barrage of questions from wargaming asking me to jump through hoops like connecting via mobile hotspot, End result bupkiss WG just said we don't do refunds! 

 

What great customer service and I'm a whale in-game with over 600 days of premium and 140 premium ships. It's a shame I used to enjoy this what is now a poor excuse of a game, the only reason I still play it is because after spending $3000+ on the game, I want to use what I paid for. 

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Removing flags earned from achievement was probably the most [edited] move WG did. 

 

But WG wants you to purchase their credit bundle in the premium shop, or their flag bundle. The signal crate they give you isnt even enough to compensate for that loss. At best you'll get 12 flags (and random flags, not even the flag you'll want) but on average you'll get less than 10 flag and these flags are random AF.

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Agree on all points..

But a question: Who was hording flags? I always seemed to run low on some no matter what I did. 

What to do? I guess its to much to ask to go back to the old system? Deadeye anyone? 

Other than the spread sheet mafia who didn't like the old system?

I guess that is more than one question lol...

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1 minute ago, Sir_Davos_Seaworth said:

But a question: Who was hording flags? I always seemed to run low on some no matter what I did. 

I have a decent amount hoarded, but I played alot of MMORPGs; so resource management is something always in the back of my mind. 

Then I never decided to play clan battles, so here I am with all these flags.

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Rollingonit 

Then you don't understand the point of this post.

 

Edited by Lurch_2
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play without flags, and play grand battle you will earn credits and exp good for all and practice

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7 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

Then I never decided to play clan battles, so here I am with all these flags.

If want to play competitively in either ranked, clan battles, or even randoms you have to use flags, if you have no other real way to earn them besides sinking resources better spent on other things. If you dont care then sure its easy to hoard them but it also hurts the economic flags, xp grinds are longer cause you dont get xp flags from krackens and then if you use flags in CBs you're spending creds on flags and then have to grind for credits longer to buy ships.

its even worse for new players who don't have the resources stockpiled.

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Actually, it's not the cost of playing, it's the cost of one's own ego. WG has conditioned so many here to do what's necessary to keep up their stats, including flagging and painting for a piddley-few percentage points of gain. Playing for fun has, for many, given way to playing for bragging rights. It's indeed the cost of ego support that WG is cashing in on.

Show how really good you are by earning top positions while naked and unflagged. ;)

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Just now, theLaalaa said:

Actually, it's not the cost of playing, it's the cost of one's own ego. WG has conditioned so many here to do what's necessary to keep up their stats, including flagging and painting for a piddley-few percentage points of gain. Playing for fun has, for many, given way to playing for bragging rights. It's indeed the cost of ego support that WG is cashing in on.

Show how really good you are by earning top positions while naked and unflagged. ;)

So having the right stuff to be able to do the best you can to try and win (which is the point of the game) is ego stroking? 

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14 minutes ago, Lurch_2 said:

Rollingonit 

Then you don't understand the point of this post.

 

Naw, just pointing out; you dont need to use flags in randoms. Save them for the competitive modes like ranked and CBs. 

It's a waste in randoms unless you are min/max theory crafting. 

And I actually agree with Venture OP, but as he mentioned the f2p model does these things.

edit: Also I changed my mind on the removal of flags for achievements. I thought it would be more fair to coop players, but after a bit I think they should rewarded again for achievements. Keep whatever system they added, but add flags back for achievemends.

Edited by Rollingonit

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25 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

Removing flags earned from achievement was probably the most [edited] move WG did. 

 

But WG wants you to purchase their credit bundle in the premium shop, or their flag bundle. The signal crate they give you isnt even enough to compensate for that loss. At best you'll get 12 flags (and random flags, not even the flag you'll want) but on average you'll get less than 10 flag and these flags are random AF.

No, the flags aren't random.  They give the garbage flags that you rarely fly.  With the MASSIVE cost in CXP to get to 21 points, one needs all the CXP one can get.  From all those crates for signals, I've counted about 6 Zulu Hotels.  The rest are flags I have in abundance due to them being rarely used.  

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31 minutes ago, Sir_Davos_Seaworth said:

Agree on all points..

But a question: Who was hording flags? I always seemed to run low on some no matter what I did. 

I was doing well enough that I felt they weren't needed until T9-10, especially 10 where you can leave a game in the red. Maybe T8 if I felt I was under preforming and wanted to make up the loses. Judging by how often I play that tier, I still have a lot of signals. 

 

If I had to take a guess, the RU community would have a make a big stink about it. This is just me being too used to how JP devs roll with their global market though. Where their home community's opinion matters more. 

Edited by Yoshiblue

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WoT has always been pay for offense.
WoWS has always been pay for defense.
Nothing has changed.

If you want to pay to win, then do it.
All I've ever bought is a few premium ships, and I'm doing fine.

Flags.thumb.jpg.1f70e570a6e31a077a755c4bae285458.jpg

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18 minutes ago, theLaalaa said:

Actually, it's not the cost of playing, it's the cost of one's own ego. WG has conditioned so many here to do what's necessary to keep up their stats, including flagging and painting for a piddley-few percentage points of gain. Playing for fun has, for many, given way to playing for bragging rights. It's indeed the cost of ego support that WG is cashing in on.

Show how really good you are by earning top positions while naked and unflagged. ;)

No the point is that there is now an increased cost in order to maximize your ships performance, which is essential for any kind of competitive play.

The OP also states how achievements have lost it's meaning as it's now just a "gold star." Which is true as they used to have an actual reward (signals) and now they don't.

Another key point the OP makes is that it's harder for a newer player to start who hasn't hoarded signals and now will have a much harder time getting the signals needed to maximize their performance.

I really don't see how you think this is a "ego" related issue as I believe many would agree this achievement change was done to drastically decrease the signal earnings of the majority.

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4 minutes ago, z9_ said:

WoT has always been pay for offense.
WoWS has always been pay for defense.
Nothing has changed.

If you want to pay to win, then do it.
All I've ever bought is a few premium ships, and I'm doing fine.

Flags.thumb.jpg.1f70e570a6e31a077a755c4bae285458.jpg

I play about 30 games a day so, if you played as many as I do then you would burn through those flags quickly 

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32 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

The silly things F2P devs & pubs do, to monetize their games. 

Why do people keep saying WG can do w/e because its a F2P game?

You ever heard of League of Legends? or Fortnight? say all you want about those games but all, and i mean ALL the money those games make are from cosmetics, there isnt an ounce of difference between a player who pays and one who doesn't.

All of their money comes from cosmetics and yet they make 100x WG money. (Meanwhile in order to get 20% more healing, you need flags, or in order to get more XP you need flags.)

Maybe it has to do with not fking over your own player base?

WG has to know they made the people who paid for their game mad, so now no one is buying anything. they can keep squeezing the game ( and they will ) until everyone leaves it.

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Yeah I the past 2 years since WG brough on their economist the whole game economy has gone to crap. Ohhhh nooo 20000 game ship collectors complained that their accounts had too many resources and they had nothing to spend them on. 

Or this B S from WG that they were concerned people had too many flags! 

THe HoRRoR of it!  People having stuff OMG!  Soooo terrible that they don’t value these penny items we make them jump through hoops for. 

Premium  ships were always vastly overpriced too. 
 

Flags too are valued by WG 10x - 100x above what their value should be. Camos tooo are just draining away. 
 

As venture said trying hard and gaming hard used to be rewarded by this company.  Now WG goes out of their way to punish playing the game. 

 

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4 minutes ago, reza577 said:

Why do people keep saying WG can do w/e because its a F2P game?

Never said that. 

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1 minute ago, Rollingonit said:

Never said that. 

He quoted where you said it. 

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1 minute ago, eviltane said:

He quoted where you said it. 

I said a statement as is, not implying it as an excuse for what they do. 

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Just now, Rollingonit said:

I said a statement as is, not implying it as an excuse for what they do. 

Yet he demonstrated the top paid games aren’t like this. So it clearly isn’t how the best in the business do it. Also it sounds just like a justification which is the same as the quote. 

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