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kellerlk4

Where's the enemy ?

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The Shira. Both enemy DDs went to immediately cap B; the shira just was never spotted.

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10 minutes ago, kellerlk4 said:

I just got sunk by torpedoes that literally came from no ship. When I look at the replay I see a Cruiser way off in the distance, no way it came from it. I uploaded the short, 7 min, replay.

Any ideas ?

20210627_163516_PASB008-Colorado-1945_10_NE_big_race.wowsreplay

So the way concealment and detection works in this game, ships can literally be invisible until you detect them either from an ally getting in range of their ship, you getting in range of their ship, or something like hydro/radar being used.

This is the primary way that torpedo destroyers have to play, because if they get close enough to be detected they're really easily sunk by just about every other ship there is.  The idea is that you play around your detection radius, keep enemies outside of it so they never see you, and as long as you only fire torpedoes (not guns, gunfire makes you easier to detect) you'll basically be invisible for most or all of the match.

The stealthiest destroyers have a 5.5km detection radius, so you have to get within that range or closer (or use something like radar/sonar) to see them.

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1 hour ago, kellerlk4 said:

I just got sunk by torpedoes that literally came from no ship. When I look at the replay I see a Cruiser way off in the distance, no way it came from it. I uploaded the short, 7 min, replay.

Any ideas ?

20210627_163516_PASB008-Colorado-1945_10_NE_big_race.wowsreplay

Yeah, once you get playing T7s, you start running into most DDs being able to "stealth torp". 

You really have to work on keeping track of potential DD locations, and being ready for torps spotted at a moment's notice. Colorado is a decent ship for avoiding torps, she's slow, but turns almost as sharp as a DD.

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1 hour ago, Lynx7386 said:

The stealthiest destroyers have a 5.5km detection radius,

There is a premium with base 5.4 km detection! I own it. :crab:

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Spotting / Concealment mechanics are IMO, the first, most crucial mechanic to understand in this game.  If you do not have some grasp on it, you will be in a huge disadvantage.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection

Pay very close attention to the location / last known location of detected enemy Destroyers and play accordingly.  Better safe than sorry.

 

Also OP, I watched your replay.  This screenshot below is a critical point in time and to me, it screamed a lot of warnings.

ymzYJ4V.jpeg

It's a small amount of players in this game and your team decided to go hard for the western cap.  Your screen of Cruisers and Destroyers all went that way.

HOWEVER:

1.  It left your right side / starboard side completely open to exploit by the enemy.  There is literally nothing screening north and northeast of you.  No planes, no DDs, no Cruisers.  There is no screen to spot enemy ships and torpedoes ahead of time.

2.  In the screenshot above, the enemy DD Mahan was detected in the center cap and was last seen heading west / southwest.

3.  This meant the DD Shiratsuyu is unaccounted for.  In the screenshot, it showed something(s) were starting to secure Cap C from the enemy team.  Often it's easy to equate that being a DD taking the cap but the major concern I felt was that it could also have been a Cruiser, some of them are pretty fast and enough time has lapsed to mean that one of the red Cruisers could be doing the cap attempt.

4.  With your north / northeast of your ship literally having nothing spotting there, I felt you were extremely vulnerable to a very aggressive play by the Shiratsuyu player.

5.  The Shiratsuyu player probably saw on his map that your team's DDs and Cruisers all went hard west and there was nothing to screen the BBs north / northeast of them.  Since this was a non-CV game, IMO, this was a huge dinner bell ringing for the Shiratsuyu player.  There is nothing to spot him.  He probably Engine Boosted and dropped torps.  It wouldn't surprise me if he was in the center cap or near the center cap, but saw you guys sailing hard west and saw your north being wide open to exploit.

 

The result was exactly as I feared:

Cruiser Zara was the one taking the northeastern Cap, the Shiratsuyu probably ran the gap between the mid and northeastern caps to attack your non-screened Battleships with torpedoes.

UWY4Z9O.jpeg

The torpedoes came from the direction that had no screen, no spotting.  That's A LOT of fish, and that Shiratsuyu player must have had dropped his Smoke and slotted Torpedo Reload Booster.

 

I know it sucked for you, but IMO, that was a very good play by the Shiratsuyu player.  He saw an opening in your team's screen and exploited it mercilessly.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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2 hours ago, Lynx7386 said:

The stealthiest destroyers have a 5.5km detection radius, so you have to get within that range or closer (or use something like radar/sonar) to see them.

5.4 actually, for Kagero and Yugumo.

There could be premiums that low, and I can't remember if Gearing with UU gets down that low or lower.

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5 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

5.4 actually, for Kagero and Yugumo.

There could be premiums that low, and I can't remember if Gearing with UU gets down that low or lower.

VIII Premium DDs Asashio, AL Yukikaze, HSF Harekaze and Harekaze II can get to 5.3km.  Gearing with Legendary gets to 5.6km.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 hours ago, Skpstr said:

Yeah, once you get playing T7s, you start running into most DDs being able to "stealth torp". 

The thing is, even with a Clemson I've managed to stealth torp and get hits. It's all a matter of understanding rate of closure math.

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9 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

The thing is, even with a Clemson I've managed to stealth torp and get hits. It's all a matter of understanding rate of closure math.

Well yes, "seal clubbers" can do that sort of thing......:Smile_trollface:

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11 hours ago, Skpstr said:

5.4 actually, for Kagero and Yugumo.

There could be premiums that low, and I can't remember if Gearing with UU gets down that low or lower.

Yugumo is actually 5.52 km 

11 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Kagero matches all of them, They are set to 5.37km which ingame gets rounded up to 5.4km 

 

The stealthies ship in game  are the premium T2 Tachibana and AL Tachibana   With 4.72 km .   The lowest detection non premium ship is the T2 Umikaze  with 4.87 km

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Most folks covered what happened.

As you play the game and gain experience (to include this very event), you will begin to gain what we call Situational Awareness (SA).  This starts with examining the match maker screen on startup and taking note of the ships in play.  DDs fair prominently, as do certain ships will some key ability (like radar). 

Armed with a bit of knowledge on the make up of the red team, one can keep that mix in mind as the game progresses.  Where are the DDs?  Have they been spotted?  (There is an interface option  that shows last spot on the mini-map...very important to enable this feature).  Threat vectors are pretty simple in the early game, but can become dynamic as the game progresses.  It can take many many games before it all comes together, especially the unseen things.  

Also, the "detected" icon can be very useful.  If you are detected, but don't see anyone....someone is seeing YOU!  If you've been quiet and your range ring is minimal, that means someone is at or inside of your range ring (a few radar exceptions notwithstanding).

WOWS is a very simple game to play.  But it is a very complex game when it comes to getting good.  Stealth torps is but one of many exciting features.  But there are countermeasures.  Both in the SA described above, the application of the SA,  and in other tools that become available.

 

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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