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blackwing9494

Is it the ship, or the captain?

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Let's say you're going to play 200 games in one ship. Leave out the whole team play dynamic.

Can a good captain, be successful (overall) in a "bad" ship?

Can a bad captain,  be successful (overall) in a "good" ship?

Are there good and bad ships, or just good and bad captains? Or both?

 

To ask the bigger question. Does it really matter what country and line you try to run up? Are all the ships able to win (for the most part) if you're a good captain in them?

 

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4 minutes ago, blackwing9494 said:

Can a good captain, be successful (overall) in a "bad" ship?

 Can a bad captain,  be successful (overall) in a "good" ship?

The impact a good captain has is many many times greater than the impact driving a "good" ship will have. Both of these are possible, but the good captain succeeding in a bad ship is much more likely than a bad captain succeeding in a good ship

6 minutes ago, blackwing9494 said:

Are there good and bad ships, or just good and bad captains? Or both?

Both. some players are better than others, some are worse. For ships, some ships are clearly better than others, like Haida vs Z-31. Haida is the better ship by far, but that doesnt mean a bad player is guaranteed to do well in her.

9 minutes ago, blackwing9494 said:

To ask the bigger question. Does it really matter what country and line you try to run up? Are all the ships able to win (for the most part) if you're a good captain in them?

A good captain is going to be able to make pretty much any ship they are put into work. Though how much influence they will have on the battle will be determined by the overall strength of the ship. Different nations have different playstyles, and different lines have different tools that may be more/less effective at influencing a match, or may just be easier to play.

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I used to sail the Mikoyan with a secondary-battery/torpedo-reload "Brawling" build (before the Captain's Skills re-work), just for the fun/challenge of it.

The Captain's skills are able to enhance, but not make-or-break, a ship's performance parameters.

A good player, with enough knowledge of their ship and how to play it best, is likely to do well. 
(Defining what "well" is, can be a bit subjective, though.  Let's just say that the ship sinks two opposing ships and scores damage totaling more than the HP of the ship in question, eh?)

A bad player, is often unable to bring out the ship's full potential, and may even get "out played" by ships which have performance parameters which the odds-makers in Las Vegas would deem a "bad bet".

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It depends on the captain and depends on the ship. 

The captain will always make a difference, good or bad ship. A bad player with a good ship will have bad results. However, a good captain/player with a very bad ship might not always have the best results. It really depends on the ship. On the other hand they will play that bad ship far better than the bad captain.  

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There area good ships and bad ships and there are good players and bad players. ("good" and "bad" being relative and somewhat subjective terms)

All things being equal (teams, luck, etc.) a players will do better in a good ship than they would in a bad ship. They won't necessarily be "successful" in it as they still might lose most of their games, they'll just do better than they would have in the bad ship.

As to good/bad players, in a given ship a good player will do better than a bad player. Once again, will the good player be successful? Maybe, maybe not. But they will do better than the bad player.

 

Edited by BitCrushed

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A good captain (as in player) matters far more than the ship or ship loadout. There are good and bad ships sure, but the performance gap between the worst and best ship is tiny compared to the gap between the worst and best player.

That's why we say play the ships you like not the ones that other people like. Because who is playing the ship matters far more than what ship it is.

For example, I have Belfast and Boise. Boise is a good ship for sure, but Belfast is considered so OP it was pulled from sale. So when it comes to T7 Ranked Belfast would be the natural choice right? I prefer Boise. Objectively Belfast is probably the better ship, but I just feel much more comfortable with Boise and so perform much better with her in battle. So my team is better off with me in a Boise than me in a Belfast because I'm better in the worse ship. The captain matters more than the ship.

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Truly bad ships are disposed of. Such as most of the Italian BB line trumpeted a few months ago. I kept two and thats quite enough of that. Even the Colombo is a bit fragile. No amount of kneading will harden it's armor quality.

There were a few that exhibited horrifying traits in battle such as it is for 4 seconds prior to deletion.

Disposed of. The American Rework BB line comes to mind. 20 blazing knots going no where. Sometimes newer more powerful BB's plow you along as extra armor.

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A  good captain in a good ship can carry and impact a battle to the degree of making it absolutely broken. Still however it's just one out of twelve players so wins aren't always possible.

A good captain in a bad ship can make up for many of its shortcomings to the degree of being able to outperform better ships of the same tier.

There is also another thing to consider, that many "bad" ships are considered as such because they aren't played to their strengths. A decent recent example are the new German DDs. Play them like traditional DDs and you consider them average to below average. Play them like mini cruisers and you got some pretty powerful tools at your disposal to influence a battle.

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A good carpenter can make a decent furniture with cheap tools. A crap carpenter won't make anything decent even with the best tools.

Ship has an effect, but nowhere as much of one as the captain.

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I exclusively play german ships like the "obligatory exploding Nurnberg".

Im fairly good in this ship having about two times the damage of average players.

I think its the captain, responsible for success in random.

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4 hours ago, blackwing9494 said:

Can a good captain, be successful (overall) in a "bad" ship?

Can a bad captain,  be successful (overall) in a "good" ship?

Are there good and bad ships, or just good and bad captains? Or both?

All of the above, yes. however, as many have stated, the captain matters far more than the ship, of course.

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4 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I used to sail the Mikoyan with a secondary-battery/torpedo-reload "Brawling" build (before the Captain's Skills re-work), just for the fun/challenge of it.

And here I thought *I* was the absolute madlass for using secondaries on California and Alabama!

bishoujo senshi sailor moon gif | WiffleGif

Secondaries build on a Mikoyan? That is legitimately crazy talk xD

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7 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

And here I thought *I* was the absolute madlass for using secondaries on California and Alabama!

bishoujo senshi sailor moon gif | WiffleGif

Secondaries build on a Mikoyan? That is legitimately crazy talk xD

Yep.  Crazy fun, though.  :Smile_glasses:

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21 hours ago, blackwing9494 said:

To ask the bigger question. Does it really matter what country and line you try to run up? Are all the ships able to win (for the most part) if you're a good captain in them?

 

It does matter.

You may be a good player, and able to succeed in any ship, but you will do better in a ship you are comfortable in, regardless of how good the ship is objectively.

The way I see it, your comfort level in the ship largely dictates how often and easily you can get in a situation where you can leverage the ship's strengths, not so much how well you do in the ship once you're in those situations.

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When it comes to overall effectiveness and ability to generate wins, player skill is a far more important factor than the ship being sailed.

WG attempts to balance ships, so variation in ship power tends to be moderate even when WG makes mistakes. Variation in player skill, on the other hand, is much larger.

good player/good ship > good player/bad ship > bad player/good ship > bad player/bad ship

 

 

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger

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You can give a bad BB player Musashi and he'd fail in it.

You can give a good player a mediocre or bad ship and they'd still have good games.

 

I've seen enough videos of good players using a bad ship, or played alongside them, going into very detailed, very valid reasons why the ship is just terrible, yet they're having results better than what I get on my best days.

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