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Cit_the_bed

Why T11 should be added to the game, with detailed talking points.

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As a company, how do you make money when you have by action or lack of planning made most of the lower tiers in your game unprofitable, and no longer a space to sell premiums (T2-T5)?

The new ship lines mostly start at T4 or T6. The majority of the income potential for the game has been reduced from nine tiers to only four; T6-T9. They have painted themselves into a corner, as far as income potential goes.

 

How do you make it acceptable to sell T10 ships? How do you upset the game balance not by nerfs or core changes, but in ways that might be embraced by the player base?

Add more tiers. Add more power. Add more advantage to the end game players to dominate the lower tiers, and drive players up the tiers as fast as possible, preferably using money to do so.

 

T11 will make almost all T9 and T10 ships obsolete in at least one way, and will create the ability to sell T10 ships, as it is no longer "the endgame".

Grand battle is a test to see how much beefier ships like Satsuma and Hannover will affect the current game balance. The answer is "not by much", but enough to make many ships no longer viable.

I would highly recommend you try killing a Hanover with an Iowa, for a glimpse of the future.

 

Pushing to T11 gives wargaming opportunity to do the following:

 

Sell T10 premium ships.

Sell T11 rentals via purchasable intelligence reports. Any player can play T11 with intelligence reports without needing to do the T1-T10 grind that takes 1-2 years.

Creates a new endgame to lure players back

Creates a new tier of ships immune to carriers for the most part via better armor, catering to people who dislike carriers in game and luring them back to the game

Creates a new and hefty fxp and resource drain, with high doubloon costs (12,000 doubloon permanent camouflages)

T11 ships to reduce the influence of submarines and drive people to T11

The ability to start players at T6 by free ships, effectively retiring lower tiers to shorten the grind. (I expect all new players to be started at T4 soon)

The ability to restrict legacy T1-T3 tiers to certain hours per day, to reduce server load and force T1 sealclubbers to move to higher tiers

 Easy content creation using existing models, with changes

Submarines become a problem for only the lower tiers with lesser torpedo protection, reducing their impact to the end game

 

Grand Battles represents a clear concept that wargaming are testing, and the goal is clear: Higher tiers are coming, and T9-T10 ships are set to be made obsolete for the most part.

Access to end game is to be made much easier for new players,  and the influence of the carrier greatly reduced by heavier armor they cannot damage, to lure back the pre CV rework players.

 

Big changes seem certain, and I am not sure people will oppose the changes, as a tier immune (for the most part) to carriers would certainly bring many people back to the game.

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As a player/customer, my perspective is an emphatic NO FRIKKING WAY!!!

(apologies for being on my cell phone and not being able to specify a larger and more obnoxious typeface)

This game is grindy enough. We have:

1. The captain skill rework.

2. Research Bureau (in effect, the home of the 3M FXP ship)

3. Multi-month dockyards

4. The current grind to T10.

And probably more that escapes me right now.

Given what they tacked on to the commander grind, I would think a T11 grind would tip the scales at 500,00-600,000 XP.

And it would also lengthen RB grinds to get to the top of a reground line as a result, and, with some T11s to show up as RB-only ships, resulting in higher RB prices, I say this is a particularly loathsome suggestion.

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Yeah, no.  Tier VIII and IX (and using ARP Yamato as the expected price) premium ships are too expensive already.  Turning Tier IX into the new Tier VIII and opening up Tier X 1) jacks the price up and 2) devalues all the premiums bought previously.

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I would rather see WG making a separate game/mode, with the dawn of SSMs implemented instead.

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about 18 month ago i posted a chart with the hypothetical cost of 20+ point commanders.

Needless to say i was made fun of as this would NEVER happen  :-)

When i saw the first mentioning of the Grand Battle my first thought was "Ah, Tier 11 test"  :-)

I'd not be surprised if WG will eventually try and test if even more modern ships can be made to work (1-2 years down a very rocky road)

I'm all for it if they give it a shot. It may not work but you have to try to find out.

In the meantime I keep my fingers crossed to some day get Goeben and Breslau into my port :-)

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53 minutes ago, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

As a player/customer, my perspective is an emphatic NO FRIKKING WAY!!!

(apologies for being on my cell phone and not being able to specify a larger and more obnoxious typeface)

This game is grindy enough. We have:

1. The captain skill rework.

2. Research Bureau (in effect, the home of the 3M FXP ship)

3. Multi-month dockyards

4. The current grind to T10.

And probably more that escapes me right now.

Given what they tacked on to the commander grind, I would think a T11 grind would tip the scales at 500,00-600,000 XP.

And it would also lengthen RB grinds to get to the top of a reground line as a result, and, with some T11s to show up as RB-only ships, resulting in higher RB prices, I say this is a particularly loathsome suggestion.

Not to mention, as the demand for current steel ships crashes through the floor, they potentially get removed, and brought back as coal ships, probably with the 40-50% markup as was done with Flint/Neustrashimy. Hellooooo, 450,000 T10 coal ships. At T11?? 500-, 550-, 600,000?

Steel ships at T11? 400,000 for starters?

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They didn't do it for wot or wowp what makes you think they will do it for wows :Smile_hiding:

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1 hour ago, Cit_the_bed said:

snip

Nice presentation, it makes me kinda sad but I can't disagree about what you say, at some point I've made post theorizing precisely about this same topic.  

57 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

Yeah, no.  Tier VIII and IX (and using ARP Yamato as the expected price) premium ships are too expensive already.  Turning Tier IX into the new Tier VIII and opening up Tier X 1) jacks the price up and 2) devalues all the premiums bought previously.

Not if they readjust prices accordingly... big sale of T9 ships at T8 price tag. But yes, it is a devaluation tho it is perfectly normal for old stuff to lose value over time.

33 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

I would rather see WG making a separate game/mode, with the dawn of SSMs implemented instead.

I would rather too but makes more sense to just expand the tier system and juggle with MM tier rules here and there.

Playing on OP's idea, they could just retire tiers1-3 into a "Novice/tutorial/intro" special tier or whatever and re-tier 4-10 plus 3 new high end tiers to round up the 10 new tiers. 

As new game modes go, it would make as much or more sense to have Pre-Dreadnought era in its own separate game/mode. 

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12 minutes ago, LastRemnant said:

They didn't do it for wot or wowp what makes you think they will do it for wows :Smile_hiding:

They still don't have Leopard 2/Abrams/T-80 in WoT?

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Just now, ArIskandir said:

They still don't have Leopard 2/Abrams/T-80 in WoT?

 

You are thinking about another game that I will not mention here wargaming will get salty by their mention :Smile_teethhappy:

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They can add more tiers when they stop allowing the matchmaker to +/-  2 tiers every match.  I'm sick of always being uptiered.

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24 minutes ago, LastRemnant said:

 

You are thinking about another game that I will not mention here wargaming will get salty by their mention :Smile_teethhappy:

Oh, I assumed they would "keep the pace" with the competition. I heard they have wheelies tho...

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4 minutes ago, Lynx7386 said:

They can add more tiers when they stop allowing the matchmaker to +/-  2 tiers every match.  I'm sick of always being uptiered.

Agrees. 1 tier MM would fix a lot of problems. I’ll wait another minute or so if need be. 

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Personally, I think the tier system itself needs some reworking. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WG pls just make Iowa same tier as Yamato and Montana same tier as Shikishima

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You did show up your points really well, but... no, real tier X ships are already rare and it is also rare to find blueprints for tier X all-gun ships that isn't a destroyer. Then cases like Hindenburg, Conqueror, Venezia and many others are fruit of "OURproject".

Also Satsuma and Hannover could fit at tier X without that weird buff that triggers after firing X shells and with a longer reload like Vermont. Their massive HP would be counter-balanced due to their massive size that is a magnet for torpedoes and HE shells even from poorly aimed salvos, I can see a tier VIII ship taking one down with fires and torps alone, tier IX ships already do this in Grand Battles just fine.

The reason why low tiers arent profitable is because WG doesnt even invest in them to begin with! I mean... most missions cant be completed with tier I-IV ships, tier IV CVs face ships that have machine guns as AA that would struggle to hit something big 1km away IRL and then their ranges were buffed, but still a joke, half the OPs were removed and the ones that remained had their rewards nerfed HARD. Also offering easy ways to skip ships for new lines, for example: I spent only 1500 doubloons to buy Schultz on pre-release (I was lucky), then I had Elbing (tier X) on day one without any brutal grind, just with a single click to buy after earning 240k XP through ranked. The list of goes on.

It reached a point that WG created the FIRST BB line without a tier III ship, the Italian one.

There are better ways for WG to make content for WoWs for the next 2-4 years, but making tier XI is not one of them.

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

I would rather too but makes more sense to just expand the tier system and juggle with MM tier rules here and there.

Playing on OP's idea, they could just retire tiers1-3 into a "Novice/tutorial/intro" special tier or whatever and re-tier 4-10 plus 3 new high end tiers to round up the 10 new tiers. 

As new game modes go, it would make as much or more sense to have Pre-Dreadnought era in its own separate game/mode. 

I mean, we're already seeing the WWII/Cold War divide bridged by another game I can't name, if not in ships, but, it will come,  I think.  (When I started playing, Mig-15s were as high as you could go...now you can fly Mig-23s if you have the time to grind them...)

WG wants some of that market, too...

 

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I'm fine with adding another tier, provided the ship in question is an upgrade. Haven't used my Zao since the unjustified nerf to her UU. A GK Mark 3 with potential 13.1km secondary range is meme-worthy.

Heck, if WG wanted to capitalize this market, give T11s additional hulls with armament options. Swap MBs for torp tubes on the Gearing's T11? An improve Hindenburg with better side armor that is largely invulnerable to CL w/ IFHE?

Thing is they spend many man-hours modeling the ships as well as balancing over fun. Safe bet they'll delight some and offend others.

At very least, evilly improved versions of the T10s. A Yamato with AP that has a 5% chance per hit to 1-shot the target. A Kleber with MB that fires smoke rounds so it can charge you without being spotted. An MvR with Stuke DB that cause the enemy ship's MB, secondaries, everything to freeze during attack runs--one can dream, but WG doesn't even do much funny stuff.

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2 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

I would rather see WG making a separate game/mode, with the dawn of SSMs implemented instead.

My thoughts exactly. The only thing about missile combat is it is so impersonal. Ya just can't see the whites of their eyes.

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theres either going to be new tier added, or we're going to have OP missile ships at T10, because if WG can bring Russian CVs and subs in, then you KNOW these clowns are gonna try to add missiles, even though they tried it once and found that it wasnt balanced, i guarantee its going to happen at some point

as for those 2 super BBs, dont think those are just going to go away after this event is over, you all know as well as i do WG is going make those 2 into T10 premiums later on, possibly RB ships so they can cash out on them, its not that hard to see, this company has become far too predictable 

Edited by tcbaker777

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sooo, short list of weapons for T11

  • kinetic CIWS
  • Laser CIWS
  • rail gun
  • anti-air missiles
  • anti-ship missiles
  • anti-sub missiles
  • more missiles

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Adding MORE tiers....

 

"POWER CREEP"

 

No thank you... Mgt. are having a lot of issues with the tiers they already have.

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5 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Adding MORE tiers....

 

"POWER CREEP"

 

No thank you... Mgt. are having a lot of issues with the tiers they already have.

and when was the last time current issues stopped WG from doing something that added more issues

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1 minute ago, tcbaker777 said:

and when was the last time current issues stopped WG from doing something that added more issues

Exactly, we should not give them any ideas... Just complaints to adjust the current game...

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1 minute ago, Navalpride33 said:

Exactly, we should not give them any ideas... Just complaints to adjust the current game...

we do that and yet

Edited by tcbaker777

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7 hours ago, Cit_the_bed said:

As a company, how do you make money when you have by action or lack of planning made most of the lower tiers in your game unprofitable, and no longer a space to sell premiums (T2-T5)?

The new ship lines mostly start at T4 or T6. The majority of the income potential for the game has been reduced from nine tiers to only four; T6-T9. They have painted themselves into a corner, as far as income potential goes.

 

How do you make it acceptable to sell T10 ships? How do you upset the game balance not by nerfs or core changes, but in ways that might be embraced by the player base?

Add more tiers. Add more power. Add more advantage to the end game players to dominate the lower tiers, and drive players up the tiers as fast as possible, preferably using money to do so.

 

T11 will make almost all T9 and T10 ships obsolete in at least one way, and will create the ability to sell T10 ships, as it is no longer "the endgame".

Grand battle is a test to see how much beefier ships like Satsuma and Hannover will affect the current game balance. The answer is "not by much", but enough to make many ships no longer viable.

I would highly recommend you try killing a Hanover with an Iowa, for a glimpse of the future.

 

Pushing to T11 gives wargaming opportunity to do the following:

 

Sell T10 premium ships.

Sell T11 rentals via purchasable intelligence reports. Any player can play T11 with intelligence reports without needing to do the T1-T10 grind that takes 1-2 years.

Creates a new endgame to lure players back

Creates a new tier of ships immune to carriers for the most part via better armor, catering to people who dislike carriers in game and luring them back to the game

Creates a new and hefty fxp and resource drain, with high doubloon costs (12,000 doubloon permanent camouflages)

T11 ships to reduce the influence of submarines and drive people to T11

The ability to start players at T6 by free ships, effectively retiring lower tiers to shorten the grind. (I expect all new players to be started at T4 soon)

The ability to restrict legacy T1-T3 tiers to certain hours per day, to reduce server load and force T1 sealclubbers to move to higher tiers

 Easy content creation using existing models, with changes

Submarines become a problem for only the lower tiers with lesser torpedo protection, reducing their impact to the end game

 

Grand Battles represents a clear concept that wargaming are testing, and the goal is clear: Higher tiers are coming, and T9-T10 ships are set to be made obsolete for the most part.

Access to end game is to be made much easier for new players,  and the influence of the carrier greatly reduced by heavier armor they cannot damage, to lure back the pre CV rework players.

 

Big changes seem certain, and I am not sure people will oppose the changes, as a tier immune (for the most part) to carriers would certainly bring many people back to the game.

Not only No but He ll NO 

You are out of your mind.

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