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Lagadema

Another player annoyed with CVs

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I'm gonna go straight to the point. Carriers have unlimited planes. You could say "oh but they regenerate in the hangar"; have you ever seen a carrier having a full factory on the hangar?
Let's be honest, CVs are annoying a good amount of players, as to which much are taking hiatus to see if something improved.

TL;DR: Give CVs a fixed amount of planes so they don't just suicide them because "they can make more" They can keep the same mechanics but they'll actually have to "think" about which target to attack and avoid.

Sincerely: An old player who reached his limit about CVs "reworks"

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10 minutes ago, Lagadema said:

I'm gonna go straight to the point. Carriers have unlimited planes. You could say "oh but they regenerate in the hangar"; have you ever seen a carrier having a full factory on the hangar?
Let's be honest, CVs are annoying a good amount of players, as to which much are taking hiatus to see if something improved.

TL;DR: Give CVs a fixed amount of planes so they don't just suicide them because "they can make more" They can keep the same mechanics but they'll actually have to "think" about which target to attack and avoid.

Sincerely: An old player who reached his limit about CVs "reworks"

I highly recommend playing them at tier 10; say 80 games, then come back and expand a bit on your experience.

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19 minutes ago, Lagadema said:

have you ever seen a carrier having a full factory on the hangar?

Have you ever SEEN the inside of an aircraft carrier?

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2 minutes ago, black_hull4 said:

Have you ever SEEN the inside of an aircraft carrier?

I have during Wargaming's Battle Tour: San Diego.   
Midway's interior:  

image.thumb.png.c022bcad93c9e5fafe3101bfa03d69e4.pngimage.thumb.png.c0fe1e94e1a5aaff6140907b1bc9f5b2.png 

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If your not smart and careful about your planes you can still get de-planed where you got no planes in stock and your waiting for some to come back (basically a sitting target)

One thing that should be changed is that ship AA should also regenerate as well instead of of being permanently destroyed when damaged in battle.

Edited by Koogus
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6 minutes ago, Koogus said:

If your not smart and careful about your planes you can still get de-planed where you got no planes in stock and your waiting for some to come back (basically a sitting target)

One thing that should be changed is that ship AA should also regenerate as well instead of of being permanently destroyed when in battle.

Wooot??

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30 minutes ago, Koogus said:

One thing that should be changed is that ship AA should also regenerate as well instead of of being permanently destroyed when damaged in battle.

This. Or at least have the heal also repair AA HP. But especially considering CV's ability to regen planes I think AA mounts regening to some extent would be a good way to give ships some better counterplay especially in the endgame.

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Just now, AJTP89 said:

This. Or at least have the heal also repair AA HP. But especially considering CV's ability to regen planes I think AA mounts regening to some extent would be a good way to give ships some better counterplay especially in the endgame.

That or have damage to CVs reduce plane regen.

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1 minute ago, DrHolmes52 said:

That or have damage to CVs reduce plane regen.

Oh that's a genius idea, I like it.

Unfortunately I'd also bet that WG will never implement this because it would encourage carrier sniping, and WG really seems opposed to the idea of carriers actually taking damage.

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Just now, AJTP89 said:

Oh that's a genius idea, I like it.

Unfortunately I'd also bet that WG will never implement this because it would encourage carrier sniping, and WG really seems opposed to the idea of carriers actually taking damage.

Oh, it will never happen for the exact reasons you state.  A CV could cripple his opponent without killing him.

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1 hour ago, Lagadema said:

I'm gonna go straight to the point. Carriers have unlimited planes. You could say "oh but they regenerate in the hangar"; have you ever seen a carrier having a full factory on the hangar?
Let's be honest, CVs are annoying a good amount of players, as to which much are taking hiatus to see if something improved.

TL;DR: Give CVs a fixed amount of planes so they don't just suicide them because "they can make more" They can keep the same mechanics but they'll actually have to "think" about which target to attack and avoid.

Sincerely: An old player who reached his limit about CVs "reworks"

CVs do not have unlimited planes but when you consider the way the other ships have unlimited ammo it makes sense that the CV should not be any more disadvantaged when looking to attack than any other ship - should they?

So in this game their main requirement is to manage their aircraft properly to ensure they can use them throughout the match - the type of aircraft and number can fluctuate depending on the quality of AA the CV faces. Good AA can have an impact on planes and possibly convince the CV player to stay away; average AA can shoot down planes but probably not deter attack if the CV player is determined (but you get XP for the planes at least :cap_like:); poor AA....well, try not to get caught.

Of course the AA can be dependant on your ship and the other ships around you. It can also depend on your ship type - if a DD you are trying to scout ahead or flank, get caught without the ability to withdraw and you are possibly going back to port. If your AA is considered poop! then stay close to friends.

 

Instead of your limited planes idea, which to be fair is not something the other war ships have to worry about - I wish WG would take the average planes lost for each CV during matches, and link it to the CVs HP - then add 20% HP leeway as a start point to trial it out.  That way when planes attack and are lost, the CV has a chance to sustain damage. I think if people could at least feel they have a chance to cause damage to the ship attacking them, then they would feel they are doing something - whereas at the moment I think most just think what is the point and that is why so many are toxic towards them? I play all ship types and enjoy all of them. :Smile_honoring:

Edited by _WaveRider_
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On the topic of unlimited ammo, could you imagine how fast the meta would shift if the IJN ships were the only ones with torpedo reloads? That's a thought, the forums would probably implode haha.

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9 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

CVs do not have unlimited planes but when you consider the way the other ships have unlimited ammo it makes sense that the CV should not be any more disadvantaged when looking to attack than any other ship - should they?

I have seen this analogy of planes being the same as ammo for other ships. Ok. If that were the case every time a plane was launched, or a least when they caused damage the concealment of the CV should be expanded to at least the distance where the damage was done. If not a gunship's concealment shouldn't change when they fire their guns. Now are planes still like ammo?  

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3 minutes ago, gillhunter said:

I have seen this analogy of planes being the same as ammo for other ships. Ok. If that were the case every time a plane was launched, or a least when they caused damage the concealment of the CV should be expanded to at least the distance where the damage was done. If not a gunship's concealment shouldn't change when they fire their guns. Now are planes still like ammo?  

Yet when a ship launches torpedoes they are not seen are they?

However, if you read the rest of my post you would have seen that I would like the plane HP linked to the CV HP - but I guess you just read what you wanted to?

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40 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

This. Or at least have the heal also repair AA HP. But especially considering CV's ability to regen planes I think AA mounts regening to some extent would be a good way to give ships some better counterplay especially in the endgame.

Here's the issue with ideas like this, where does it stop? Think about the implications for the future for a moment.  Do you have it work on all modules or just AA? Gun turrets, and torpedoes for example. Would fires damage AA guns over time, would flooding damage subsystems like hydro? On that topic would it open up the idea of subsystem damage, damage to the radar dish,  or hydroacoustics? Would the destruction of these subsystems then have to do damage to the ship itself, torpedoes blowing up and such? Can you always repair the damage or is there a limit to how many times it can be healed? Does this not give a significant advantage to ships like the British cruisers and the euro DDs who both have heals way before any of their competition?  What about some of the stronger AA ships at higher tiers like Minotaur and Des Moines. Would it be linked to the amount of HP gained by the heal, if so, you would literally never see some ships with less than 100% AA like the mino and conq. What about captains that heal ships, like the german and IJN special captains, would they restore AA? There's a lot that could go disastrously wrong with things like this and, with all due respect, the Devs seem to have the habit of applying changes with a sledgehammer rather than a chisel. 

Edited by Sinboto

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16 minutes ago, Sinboto said:

On the topic of unlimited ammo, could you imagine how fast the meta would shift if the IJN ships were the only ones with torpedo reloads? That's a thought, the forums would probably implode haha.

Think about the Derzki.  Where are all the torpedoes housed?

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8 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Yet when a ship launches torpedoes they are not seen are they?

However, if you read the rest of my post you would have seen that I would like the plane HP linked to the CV HP - but I guess you just read what you wanted to?

I rarely launch torpedoes from over 3 km, so they not only see my torps, but my ship also.

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3 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Think about the Derzki.  Where are all the torpedoes housed?

Anywhere they can fit I imagine haha.

Edited by Sinboto

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Just now, gillhunter said:

I rarely launch torpedoes from over 3 km, so they not only see my torps, but my ship also.

And a CV can launch its planes when visible to.

Just like they can both  launch attacks in stealth in most circumstances. How you decide to launch them is up to you - but it doesn't change the mechanics - does it?

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Just now, _WaveRider_ said:

And a CV can launch its planes when visible to.

Just like they can both  launch attacks in stealth in most circumstances. How you decide to launch them is up to you - but it doesn't change the mechanics - does it?

Sure it does. I can't launch my torps from across the map and steer them to my target.

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Just now, gillhunter said:

Sure it does. I can't launch my torps from across the map and steer them to my target.

But that wasn't your initial point was it:

23 minutes ago, gillhunter said:

I have seen this analogy of planes being the same as ammo for other ships. Ok. If that were the case every time a plane was launched, or a least when they caused damage the concealment of the CV should be expanded to at least the distance where the damage was done. If not a gunship's concealment shouldn't change when they fire their guns. Now are planes still like ammo?  

If you want to start changing the parameters of what you first stated then we can go around in circles making up scenarios to suit our own pov can't we? For instance I can talk about the weapon yield of the torpedo be more of that of a squadron of planes etc.

If you don't agree with my particular take on things, I'm not going to lose sleep on it - it's all good - but try and maintain a bit of integrity when discussing what has actually been stated. :Smile_honoring:

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3 minutes ago, gillhunter said:

Sure it does. I can't launch my torps from across the map and steer them to my target.

I would point out that there's a targeting indicator that effectively tells you how to do that, people tend to forget about it since it's so normal to see, DDs would be a hell of a lot more difficult to use if you didn't have it as CVs do not. It's part of the reason people are having so much trouble with this new machine gun addition to rockets.

Also: aren't submarines coming with that exact mechanic in place? :cap_hmm:

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1 minute ago, _WaveRider_ said:

But that wasn't your initial point was it:

If you want to start changing the parameters of what you first stated then we can go around in circles making up scenarios to suit our own pov can't we? For instance I can talk about the weapon yield of the torpedo be more of that of a squadron of planes etc.

If you don't agree with my particular take on things, I'm not going to lose sleep on it - it's all good - but try and maintain a bit of integrity when discussing what has actually been stated. :Smile_honoring:

No it wasn't. I was just answering your question. I'm not going to lose any sleep either. Speaking of integrity, since CVs do not have unlimited planes, when is the last time you have seen a CV deplaned in a match?

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11 minutes ago, gillhunter said:

No it wasn't. I was just answering your question. I'm not going to lose any sleep either. Speaking of integrity, since CVs do not have unlimited planes, when is the last time you have seen a CV deplaned in a match?

Happens when T8 CVs go into T10 matches...which is a lot. 

Edit: sometimes happens to T6s but I figure this is user error because, well it's T6.

Edited by Sinboto

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Just now, gillhunter said:

No it wasn't. I was just answering your question. I'm not going to lose any sleep either. Speaking of integrity, since CVs do not have unlimited planes, when is the last time you have seen a CV deplaned in a match?

I haven't seen a CV deplaned in a while, that is why I mentioned the different aspects of managing the planes in my first post along with the type of AA you get on different ships when replying to the OP.

However, it still doesn't alter the fact that a CV can be managed poorly or come up against good AA and find itself deplaned - does it?

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