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Sinboto

Defensive fire, yay or meh?

Defensive fire yay or meh?  

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  1. 1. Defensive fire yay or meh?


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I've seen people lean one way or the other for this consumable so just wondering what yall's thoughts on it are over hydro? (Edit: or speed boost on DDs) Any ships it's a must-have for? 

Edited by Sinboto

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Def AA boost continuous damage a bit and boost flaks a lot.

Flaks are easy to dodge and half decent CV player will dodge your flak. Bad CV will eat your flaks and lose planes. The small boost to continuous damage isnt enough to repell a strike and let's say MM gift you with a no CV game, then your Def AA will be useless. That means Def AA will be usefull against good CV for that one time where they will either mess up their strike or RNG will screw with them. Bad CV will just eat flaks and lose their planes so you dont have to worry too much about Def AA.

On the other hands, all game have DD or long range torpedo ship. And hydro can also help spot through island for those few time someone hugs an island.

 

I'll let you make your choice. 

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Bot airplanes are garbage at dodging flak. If you need to farm plane kills, take a DFAA-equipped ship into co-op and div with someone who can bring a CV. The only issue can sometimes be a nearby ally who slurps up all the plane kills that you've done 90% of the damage on.

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Hydro is more useful in current version to prevent eating torpedo soup. Sometimes you can even spot BBs behind the island. 

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I was looking at the equipment options for one of the ships in my Port, yesterday.
Defensive Fire or Hydro-Acoustic Search? 
Hydro won the contest.

 

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Unless you're in something like Halland, DFAA is a gutted placebo effect for 90% easily of all ships in the game.  It has none of the power it had pre re-bork days and is a relic and a testament to the handholding WG regularly does in the name of CV power in balance for the lowest common denominator.  This doesn't even factor in the fact that if you don't see a CV, its also useless.

The most DFAA will do is prevent a third drop by a competent (reads: not even good) CV player, unless the CV has bullied its flank into blobbing up and giving up tons of map control.

That is the truth, regardless of perception from others.  

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2 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I was looking at the equipment options for one of the ships in my Port, yesterday.
Defensive Fire or Hydro-Acoustic Search? 
Hydro won the contest

To which the pro-CV crowd will say it is your fault that your AA is ineffective. 

 

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24 minutes ago, CaliburxZero said:

Unless you're in something like Halland, DFAA is a gutted placebo effect for 90% easily of all ships in the game.  It has none of the power it had pre re-bork days and is a relic and a testament to the handholding WG regularly does in the name of CV power in balance for the lowest common denominator.  This doesn't even factor in the fact that if you don't see a CV, its also useless.

The most DFAA will do is prevent a third drop by a competent (reads: not even good) CV player, unless the CV has bullied its flank into blobbing up and giving up tons of map control.

That is the truth, regardless of perception from others.  

I run DFAA on American DDs instead of speed boost (with the exception of Benham), but yeah it’s mostly for placebo effect and for making less than experienced carriers nervous when they see the red tracers. Also once in a while someone runs into powered-up flak, #feelsgood

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I look at it this way. If you hate aircraft more than you value other useful tools then use def. AA. I like doing as much damage to something I hate for sheer spite and malice. When there is a good AA platform or the option for AA I try to take it unless its just an absolutely stupid tradeoff.

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it depends on the ship.  if your taking def fire you still really need a Full AA build.   There are exceptions to this. 

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On ships like the Des Moines, hydro has always been the better option as you might only run into a CV every half-dozen games or so and then it might not ever send planes near you. On the Gearing though I do take defensive AA as the alternative is the speed boost, which doesn't really do much. Usually when a CV player sees that red flak and loses a squadron he will take his planes elsewhere.

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6 minutes ago, vak_ said:

I run DFAA on American DDs instead of speed boost (with the exception of Benham), but yeah it’s mostly for placebo effect and for making less than experienced carriers nervous when they see the red tracers. Also once in a while someone runs into powered-up flak, #feelsgood

Hmmmmm.  That makes sense, and frankly whenever I do bother to play again it'll be to unveil my UU Gearing.  I suppose I also run Kidd which I see regular success and it runs DFAA but largely I've no faith.  Perhaps i'll try that in gearing if you like running it but I suspect my luck with the powered-up flak I won't have any potatoes run into it, that's just how my luck crumbles.  

The bad CV players can no longer ruin my games since it takes *some* skill to smack us with rockets, but most likely that won't last once they figure it out.

My answer?  Playing RN DDs.  Best smoke in the game, and its what keeps CVs off my back.  

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3 minutes ago, CaliburxZero said:

The bad CV players can no longer ruin my games since it takes *some* skill to smack us with rockets

Yep, very true. I’ll probably be switching back to speed boost on everything except for Kidd and maybe Sims (plenty of potato CVs at tier six, who love running into flak), since DFAA on the likes of Gearing never did much against good CVs anyway. Just haven’t gotten around to it yet. 

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3 minutes ago, vak_ said:

Yep, very true. I’ll probably be switching back to speed boost on everything except for Kidd and maybe Sims. Just haven’t gotten around to it yet. 

Well, you got time.  There may be an argument to run it for a month or so (maybe longer if they're that potato?), because the bad CV captains will most likely just vulture you too used to their free lunch, wanting to smack you no matter how many times they miss.  At least then you can make them sit under a full duration DFAA at that point, making their life slightly harder when they ultimately start making someone else miserable.  

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47 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

To which the pro-CV crowd will say it is your fault that your AA is ineffective. 

 

Not sure if you're having a rough day.
I play all ship types.

Seems like you could benefit from a hug, though?
image_2021-06-21_115511.png.5eaac2bbdc80a49df47fca69ad0d733e.png

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DFAA is a multiplier. Multiply a big number, get big results. Multiply a small number, waste a slot.

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DFAA used to be good for at least the panic effect, even if your AA was terrible. Nowadays it's pretty worthless, Hydro is almost always better.

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Hmm, seems I’m in the minority again.  I run DefAA on my American Cruisers.  I also use the 2 point AA skill to boost the focus fire.  These cruisers start with decent AA, and when combined with the skill and DefAA, it makes a dent in a CV’s planes that they don’t like.  They usually leave me alone after that. Since I’m usually trying to support my DDs, they get to benefit from my AA bubble as well.

It’s been working. I definitely do not feel helpless when a CV is around.  It will absolutely shut down a lower tier CV.  Same tier CVs can still get a drop off, (I think they should be able to) but they rarely get a second drop off.  Frankly I don’t run into a lot of higher tier CVs - if I did, maybe my opinion would change.

I do miss hydro.  I have to play a lot more carefully around red DDs.  But I rarely die to some torp strike, because I’m constantly maneuvering, expecting torps when I’m charging a DD.

For me, it’s about flexibility.  I feel that I have the tools needed to play against DDs, and I want to have the tools available to play against CVs too.  Before the CV rework, CVs were rare enough that I took hydro, but now, especially with the introduction of the Tone and Ise, planes are common enough for DefAA to be worthwhile.

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Varies a lot on a ship-by-ship or role selection cases. Can't make blanket statements about it.

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DFAA was good back when Cleveland was a Tier 6. Then it got nerfed along with AA in general. 
Hydro is useful all the time. You can use it when holding an area and you need to see if someone is trying to creep around an island. You can not fire so you’re blind to DDs or CLs in smoke and pop hydro to spot them and flush them out. 
You can use hydro to spot torps or hidden ships approaching if you’re in the smoke firing. 
This is just a few examples. I’m now getting more games that have less CVs. So if the slot is between DFAA or something else I take something else especially if it’s hydro. 

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When it works, it works. But against a potato cv, ofc a gimmick would work. But against a good cv, nah. Remember, cv get one alpha strike no matter what.

cv fun.png

Edited by ThiccLoliThighs

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