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Merc_R_Us

If you are having trouble with the rocket change, click here please

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Check it out, DDs were getting slaughtered. Something had to give. 

Now you can come on here and complain, OR, you can ask for help. Don't be someone who is just outraged; seek solutions. I think I've only seen 1 post out of 50 that was legitimately seeking help. 

There are many people willing to give advice.. Change sucks, sure, so CHANGE your approach. 

@Ahskance, @El2aZeR, @ReimuBakarei , are really good about helping (in their own unique ways).  I'll help too.

You can still be a terror in the skies, good luck!

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It's true it's workable don't be ignorant seek help.

Or embarrass yourself by going and freaking out about it when reality is it's not bad.

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20 minutes ago, Merc_R_Us said:

There are many people willing to give advice.. Change sucks, sure, so CHANGE your approach.

Merc is right...

Go into training mode, set for 12 vs 12, add 12 destroyers to the enemy team and set for no gun fire.  kill everyone of them with rockets and when you are done... you'll be better with them in randoms etc.

Also everyone! WG has made it so you have to protect your CV from DD's if they get on them.

Rockets: As soon as you set your way point, click again to regain control of the the next group of planes... no need to sit there and watch the animation.

You can even have new planes taking off before your rockets land if you're fast enough.

If you haven't used Tiny Tims', now is the time to try them out.

Edited by LostDawg
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20 minutes ago, Merc_R_Us said:

Check it out, DDs were getting slaughtered. Something had to give. 

Now you can come on here and complain, OR, you can ask for help. Don't be someone who is just outraged; seek solutions. I think I've only seen 1 post out of 50 that was legitimately seeking help. 

There are many people willing to give advice.. Change sucks, sure, so CHANGE your approach. 

@Ahskance, @El2aZeR, @ReimuBakarei , are really good about helping (in their own unique ways).  I'll help too.

You can still be a terror in the skies, good luck!

Overall I'm still able to deal with DD's to a certain extent, however, my main problem comes with the fact much less-skilled CV's may find it near impossible to deal with DD's. Thus, widening the skill gap. 

I see this as problematic as CV's still maintain the same/similar importance in a match, and having one that doesn't touch DD's is extremely detrimental for the team.

But anyways I was kind of wondering how to effectively/properly use IJN rockets against DD's as I feel I could be doing better. (Especially on Hakuryu)

Edited by Arctic_Chann
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5 minutes ago, Arctic_Chann said:

Overall I'm still able to deal with DD's to a certain extent, however, my main problem comes with the fact much less-skilled CV's may find it near impossible to deal with DD's. Thus, widening the skill gap. 

I see this as problematic as CV's still maintain the same/similar importance in a match, and having one that doesn't touch DD's is extremely detrimental for the team.

But anyways I was kind of wondering how to effectively/properly use IJN rockets against DD's as I feel I could be doing better. (Especially on Hakuryu)

The skill gap is what worries me the most about this change, the whole point of the CV rework was to make them easier for the average player to use. Things like this are pretty much the opposite effect.

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2 minutes ago, Arctic_Chann said:

Overall I'm still able to deal with DD's to a certain extent, however, my main problem comes with the fact much less-skilled CV's may find it near impossible to deal with DD's. Thus, widening the skill gap. 

I see this as problematic as CV's still maintain the same/similar importance in a match, and having one that doesn't touch DD's is extremely detrimental for the team.

But anyways I was kind of wondering how to effectively/properly use IJN rockets against DD's as I feel I could be doing better. (Especially on Hakuryu)

Hak is most certainly the most impacted CV by this change, and I would be surprised if they didn't help it out. That said, it may be a case where you have to be much more mindful on when you take rocket planes out to hit a destroyer. 

The best opportunities are when your allied destroyers run into them; the most obvious point being at the start of the game, and scouting along the caps; by the time you reach the farthest cap, your DD and the enemy DD will be close to the cap.

Another good point I'm finding is taking out torps first, focusing on the closest side's BBs, then taking rockets out. By then, your allied and enemy DDs will be lit.

Other than that, gotta stay mindful, or just focus on cruisers and battleships, do what you can to free up guns.

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1 minute ago, Sinboto said:

The skill gap is what worries me the most about this change, the whole point of the CV rework was to make them easier for the average player to use. Things like this are pretty much the opposite effect.

What is hardest about this though? If we think about it, 33% of the planes of a ship got effected, so players can still work with the other types the same. Only Hak is hurt hardest, the CV by and large known to be a BB/CA focused ship. Players taking out Tiny Tims should not be complaining about hitting DDs. Those rockets are BB/CA focused.

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14 minutes ago, Sinboto said:

The skill gap is what worries me the most about this change, the whole point of the CV rework was to make them easier for the average player to use. Things like this are pretty much the opposite effect.

Right now, it's different.  Folks are unlearning muscle memory from the past years of play and having to replace it with something they're uncertain about.  It's not a pleasant experience...

However!  CV drivers have literally been doing this for as long as the rework has been out.  Torpedo'ing a DD or Cruiser has you leading the with a reticle and dropping a distance ahead of the enemy ship.  There is no white line to tell you where to drop, so it's a skill that get learned by practice and repetition.

These are two examples from gameplay I had last night. 

Language Warning:  I doth do swear~

Note!  Both DDs left their AA on and gave us spotting information for free.  If they chose NOT to give that information, it would have forced Fighter consumables for spotting, or may have simply resulted in being outplayed.  The lead time is significant, because it's supposed to be significant.

Raw Link: https://youtu.be/DAU0fkYEOHs

and

Raw Link: https://youtu.be/Qf9yGKM-p3I

-----

Notice that the reticle placed is "similar" to about how far ahead of the DD you would lead with Torpedoes.  Is it a guaranteed hit?  No.  It wouldn't be a guaranteed hit with torpedoes either.

This is something that players will learn and feel out over time, and the skill will improve.

Still, this DOES reduce the base level of accuracy that the rockets have, and introduces more movement options for the DD to avoid/mitigate damage.

Remember.  The goal of the rocket change was to guide more rocket interactions to larger ships like Cruisers and Battleships, not to diminish the "threat" level of the rockets.

Edited by Ahskance
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1 minute ago, Merc_R_Us said:

. Players taking out Tiny Tims should not be complaining about hitting DDs. Those rockets are BB/CA focused.

Yah don't plan on using Tim's on DD's unless you're highly skilled.

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5 minutes ago, Sinboto said:

The skill gap is what worries me the most about this change, the whole point of the CV rework was to make them easier for the average player to use. Things like this are pretty much the opposite effect.

I believe they are easier compared to the RTS version. Easier/more approachable to play I agree with. Stupid/brain dead level of play like Petro, Thunderer, etc. not so much.

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Yeah, looking at Ahskance's clips there, those DDs were leaving their AA on.  Made it easy to line up and target them.

The smart play is leave the AA off, make them find you, and only the best will hit you, unless they just get lucky.

But, I'm sure, someone will come along, look at those clips, and ask for more nerfs, even though the DD is, as mentioned, making it very easy for the CV.

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1 hour ago, LostDawg said:

Go into training mode, set for 12 vs 12, add 12 destroyers to the enemy team and set for no gun fire.  kill everyone of them with rockets and when you are done... you'll be better with them in randoms etc.

Did that. Got my lead reasonably accurate, only to realize it doesn't matter how much skill I have when RNG is still 80% of the result (for GZ rockets. Others are better, I know)

Whatever. Overdue for a break.

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CVs still do just fine. I'm a very "average" CV player and I've adapted. I still can't hit much consistently with rockets other than battleships and not even them sometimes but I'm getting better. However, even with nerfed rockets, I still seem to contribute to team wins. Yesterday, my team won six of the seven games I played in my Midway. My first game of today went fairly well too. Never forget that spotting is as important as damage is when playing a CV.

@LostDawg gave probably the best advice thus far. I went into the Training Room and practiced after the patch before taking my CV out and it at least got me familiar with what to expect from the new rockets.

image.png.88505863f40cc7c11e65359d0b8273bd.png 

32% hit ratio is still not as good as I would like but I'm still getting the timings worked out too. Also, surface ship players are figuring out how to dodge the rockets. Actually, with the long delay between locking in a target area and the rockets firing, no ship should ever be hit by a rocket if its paying attention and is already moving. Fortunately for the CV player, there are plenty of players who neither move nor pay attention when planes are in the area.

image.thumb.png.ad15baef42ff512fe6759952390a6dfa.png

Edited by Snargfargle
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1 hour ago, LostDawg said:

Yah don't plan on using Tim's on DD's unless you're highly skilled.

As someone who runs the arguably worse than HVAR Tiny Tims on my Lady Lex, they've become borderline useless against DDs. However, I still don't have any problems hitting cruisers and battleships with them fine.

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12 hours ago, Merc_R_Us said:

Check it out, DDs were getting slaughtered. Something had to give. 

Yes first to admit that they were.

Ty Mercs and to all the others that seek a solution to a far from unsolvable problem.

I for one enjoy a mechanic alteration, especially when it has an effect on the entire type, not just select ships.

It never seemed enjoyable to be a appendage to BBs spotting and hunting DDs so they could blast away without repercussion.

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11 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

@LostDawg gave probably the best advice thus far.

Thank you Snargfargle, I just would rather see people move forward than just getting angry on the forum.

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16 hours ago, Merc_R_Us said:

Check it out, DDs were getting slaughtered. Something had to give. 

Now you can come on here and complain, OR, you can ask for help. Don't be someone who is just outraged; seek solutions. I think I've only seen 1 post out of 50 that was legitimately seeking help. 

There are many people willing to give advice.. Change sucks, sure, so CHANGE your approach. 

@Ahskance, @El2aZeR, @ReimuBakarei , are really good about helping (in their own unique ways).  I'll help too.

You can still be a terror in the skies, good luck!

I loved my Enterprise and yes it was too easy to nail DD's
Now it has made it challenging but not impossible. 
I swapped all my skills and modules away from the Attack aircraft as you need to really time it now and not just reflex swing at targets. 

You cannot endlessly throw planes at the poor DD's now as they are in the air a lot longer taking more damage, so you have to plan your attacks carefully. 
They are better as dedicated attack spotters now, rather than assault craft first, spotters second. 

The delay does take a lot to get use to and I am far from being comfortable with it. We'll see how it all plays out. 
 

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15 hours ago, Ahskance said:

Right now, it's different.  Folks are unlearning muscle memory from the past years of play and having to replace it with something they're uncertain about.  It's not a pleasant experience...

However!  CV drivers have literally been doing this for as long as the rework has been out.  Torpedo'ing a DD or Cruiser has you leading the with a reticle and dropping a distance ahead of the enemy ship.  There is no white line to tell you where to drop, so it's a skill that get learned by practice and repetition.

These are two examples from gameplay I had last night. 

Language Warning:  I doth do swear~

Note!  Both DDs left their AA on and gave us spotting information for free.  If they chose NOT to give that information, it would have forced Fighter consumables for spotting, or may have simply resulted in being outplayed.  The lead time is significant, because it's supposed to be significant.

Raw Link: https://youtu.be/DAU0fkYEOHs

and

Raw Link: https://youtu.be/Qf9yGKM-p3I

-----

Notice that the reticle placed is "similar" to about how far ahead of the DD you would lead with Torpedoes.  Is it a guaranteed hit?  No.  It wouldn't be a guaranteed hit with torpedoes either.

This is something that players will learn and feel out over time, and the skill will improve.

Still, this DOES reduce the base level of accuracy that the rockets have, and introduces more movement options for the DD to avoid/mitigate damage.

Remember.  The goal of the rocket change was to guide more rocket interactions to larger ships like Cruisers and Battleships, not to diminish the "threat" level of the rockets.

Thanks so much for these 2 vids and some tips, Ahskance. You are generous with your advice in CV and anti-CV strats as always. You are appreciated more than you know, my friend! <3

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5 hours ago, I_Know_Putin said:

Stop trying to justify the stupid patch

just reverse the damn thing!

Lol this is what I'm talking about captain. Why don't you ask for assistance 

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For me it's not a discussion about whether or not rocket planes needed adjusted. (they did)    The more I play the new rockets the more I question.. why would you want to?   It's clear that the new rocket mechanics are steaming garbage.   Garbage to look at and garbage to use.  I don't think you can help me with that issue OP..   I mean, can one CV main step into this conversation with a straight face and say they thought this was a positive mechanics adjustment and they love the way they work now?  Ridiculous to use plane type is not particularly something I even want to even use..   If I have to use them,  I'll guess I'll send them mindlessly at something I can't miss and don't have to care that I have to fumble around with or use them as spotters (Annoying the same effected ships just as much or more).  .  Not to mention how much this gutted a few of the Carriers that don't really have enough functional ordinance types without them?  Literally out of the 20 or so nerfs/mechanics adjustments/global adjustments, since this live alpha test has been subjected to the player base, virtually every one them has made the class more mechanically awkward to play.   And now. Just like with the RTS carriers before them, when WG decides they can't balance/adjust something properly they just start making them so mechanically unpleasant or challenging that large portions of the player base likely won't bother with them, removing them from ques...  We are literally right back where we were with RTS carriers, with the single exception being WG having pocketed a whole bunch more money in their bank accts for sold premium carriers that were introduced as fun, smooth to play ship types and then replaced with fumbling annoyingly difficult intricate mechanical messes.   Had high hopes for the rework when it came out.. finally getting carriers  to an easy to play arcade avatar that worked well with the ergonomic mechanics of this game that would add CVs back into ques and create more game depth.  Can declare today that I'll happily label it as a waste of resources IMO,  as today some 2-1/2 years later it just isn't that anymore.     So many simpler solutions to make them work, overlooked.      Rockets should have never been added.. So instead of doubling down on that mistake with ridiculous crap illogical mechanics, why couldn't we have just tried removing them and adding in some of the other less egregious and less loathed aerial weapons types?  Had we just went there out of the gate once this error was confirmed... then spent the rest of the time making AA & aerial spotting into something that both sides could live with, this may have looked a lot different today.   As is.. CV players are now less happy and gripes from surface ships will continue ad nausem.    

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2 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

the new rocket mechanics are steaming garbage.

I agree that the way they present the new rocket attacks is utterly stupid. You press your mouse button and the planes just hang in the air for seven or eight seconds and then fire a barrage of rockets that instantly reaches the aiming reticle. At least have the rockets fly to the target area in something that resembles real time and allow the planes to wheel away after releasing them.

While the new rockets can hit stationary targets and some battleships, the mechanism of using them seems to be poorly though out. If they don't like rockets anymore then just get rid of them. However, if they did then there would probably be complaints about the increased number of dive bombers and torpedo bombers.   

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57 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

I mean, can one CV main step into this conversation with a straight face and say they thought this was a positive mechanics adjustment and they love the way they work now?

You already know that no one loves a nerf to their ship, why ask that lol. With a straight face I will say that this is a positive mechanic adjustment for the sake of the game overall, but it should be tweaked for the IJN line.

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13 minutes ago, Merc_R_Us said:

You already know that no one loves a nerf to their ship, why ask that lol. With a straight face I will say that this is a positive mechanic adjustment for the sake of the game overall, but it should be tweaked for the IJN line.

 I appreciate the rocket nerf.. It was needed.   But, there was a ton of other things that could be done for the sake of the game to rein in rockets.     and of course it will be well received by the non-CV player base..     Next time a weapons type for a surface ship needs a nerf.. Lets advise WG to just implement a lag time between when the player taps his left mouse button and the shell actually leaves the Barrel.  Maybe we can put a predictive splash in front of splash so the intended target can see where it is going to land .. it will look real pretty that way.       This was a terrible change for CV players of all skill levels.  Rockets could have been dealt with in so many other ways which weren't quite this awkward and immersion breaking and still could have made rockets harder to use.    Poll CV players... I'll bet 80% of them would have preferred outright rocket removal to this..  

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My solution for this change has been simple..  I leave the DDs to the rest of my team.. i go after battleships and cruisers.. and i dont worry about spotting DDs anymore..   

Its more fun for me then spotting, winrate remains about the same (slowly climbing to 52 from 51) 

Spotting things you cant hit if they have their AA off and are smart.. is no fun... it also generates almost no experience and no credits.. 

Damage gets credits and experience..  win win for me.. i get to hit BBs and cruisers.. ignore DDs and watch as my team cant figure out how to deal with a match that doesn't have a CV doing all the DD spotting.. secondary is that Because i am not after DDs near the front.. im also not able to drop fighters as often..  

less work for me..  thanks wargaming lol

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