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reza577

Battleships are the least Rewarding class

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1.There is only 1 commander build for them, going tanky.

2.Only a handful of BBs can go secondary build, and even then its not viable (20% of my dmg comes from my secondary's on my Ohio)

3.As soon as you push in to support team you get HE spammed or torpped from all direction.

4.They introduced 1 new good BB commander skill (deadeye) and they removed it in 2 months... (thinking DE was the reason BB players were sitting in backline, and yet, even now with deadeye removed most BB players sit in back)

 

What is the role of a BB in this game? they cant push in because they aren't tanky, they cant go secondary build because it does no dmg, they cant sit back and snipe because the shells miss.

 

 

EDIT : FINALLY SOME GOOD NEWS WITH THE COMMANDER CHANGES FOR THE BBs

Edited by reza577
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19 minutes ago, reza577 said:

1.There is only 1 commander build for them, going tanky.

2.Only a handful of BBs can go secondary build, and even then its not viable (20% of my dmg comes from my secondary's on my Ohio)

3.As soon as you push in to support team you get HE spammed or torpped from all direction.

4.They introduced 1 new good BB commander skill (deadeye) and they removed it in 2 months... (thinking DE was the reason BB players were sitting in backline, and yet, even now with deadeye removed most BB players sit in back)

 

What is the role of a BB in this game? they cant push in because they aren't tanky, they cant go secondary build because it does no dmg, they cant sit back and snipe because the shells miss.

1. This is correct. Tank or bust for basically all battleships. Fun and engaging.

Bored Pout GIF - Bored Pout Hmph - Discover & Share GIFs

2. This is correct as well, due to the massive secondaries accuracy loss. Even the once "overperforming USN secondaries BBs" are suffering quite a bit. More than they need to, for double sure. God help the German BBs and every other battleship not named Massachusetts, Georgia or Ohio, really.

3. This is also correct, usually. Of course, that's why I find island cover and positioning of the UTMOST importance these days. Then again, positioning has ALWAYS been key.

4. Sadly correct, although admittedly, the condition of Deadeye was the biggest issue, which promoted the backline sniping even more, so that needed changing. They could've kept the skill or nerfed it slightly, but instead, we got Swift in Silence. I still haven't bothered to use it. (that said, the secondaries accuracy over-nerf is FAR worse of a problem than Dead Eye ever was.)

So what is the role of the BB aside from being a BBQ (see what I did there? ;P)? Well, BBs CAN sit back and snipe, and sadly, that is actually probably the safest and most optimal way to play them right now, since secondaries accuracy got trashed via ISBA, brawling was never meta, HE spam/torpedo spam reigns supreme at higher tiers, and BBs ultimately just need more survivability skills. You CAN brawl with basically just main guns (and/or torpedoes if your battleship has them I guess), but your secondaries are being used more as a proc for CQC's main battery boost, which is DUMB, because that's not what secondaries are for, they are their OWN auxiliary weapons system that is supposed to be supporting main battery fire with supplementary damage reliably. Which they cannot accomplish remotely reliably anymore, and this goes DOUBLE for battleships without built-in secondaries dispersion buffs.

Edited by SaiIor_Moon
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5 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

1. This is correct. Tank or bust for basically all battleships. Fun and engaging.

Bored Pout GIF - Bored Pout Hmph - Discover & Share GIFs

2. This is correct as well, due to the massive secondaries accuracy loss. Even the once "overperforming USN secondaries BBs" are suffering a fair bit.

3. This is also correct, usually. Of course, that's why I find island cover and positioning of the UTMOST importance these days. Then again, positioning has ALWAYS been key.

4. Sadly correct, although admittedly, the condition of Deadeye was the biggest issue, which promoted the backline sniping even more, so that needed changing. They could've kept the skill or nerfed it slightly, but instead, we got Swift in Silence. I still haven't bothered to use it. (that said, the secondaries accuracy over-nerf is FAR worse of a problem than Dead Eye ever was.)

So what is the role of the BB aside from being a BBQ (see what I did there? ;P)? Well, BBs CAN sit back and snipe, and sadly, that is actually probably the safest and most optimal way to play them right now, since secondaries accuracy got trashed via ISBA, brawling was never meta, HE spam/torpedo spam reigns supreme at higher tiers, and BBs ultimately just need more survivability skills. You CAN brawl with basically just main guns (and/or torpedoes if your battleship has them I guess), but your secondaries are being used more as a proc for CQC's main battery boost, which is DUMB, because that's not what secondaries are for, they are their OWN auxiliary weapons system that is supposed to be supporting main battery fire with supplementary damage reliably. Which they cannot accomplish remotely reliably anymore, and this goes DOUBLE for battleships without built-in secondaries dispersion buffs.

Well, sadly, even before all the HE spam, torps, cv rework, secondary nerf....etc BB still sat in the back camping. I think the main reason players sit in the back is over the fact you can't trust the DD, CA and other BB players on your team to have your back and they can't trust you will have theirs. This is why top players division pretty much all the time if they can. 

Edited by SteelClaw
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OP != fun.  For me at least.  I have lots of German and some US BB that are secondary builds.  I have Slava which is a long range accurate sniper.

Neither of these play styles are on the bleeding edge of competitive, but that doesn't mean they are not fun take a match.

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To point 4 - they sat back before - but the deadeye skill made it worse.

Most of the HE spam issue is tier 8+ cruisers, and not HE but IFHE. If this was back in the pre-IFHE days, where the only way a 152 mm cruiser hurt a bow on BB with HE was to hit superstructure or start fires - it'd be no problem. The problem is BB's don't have the mitigation to eat the autopens on the bow or any other portion of the ship - such as NC that the entire thing is vulnerable to it, while also compensating for fires. Cause for all the 'fire damage is 100% fixable' people want to spew to defend it - none of them seem to get the fact that one fire can be accounted for with the repair party and that most ships it's an 80 second cooldown. The faster CD on ships like Mass makes a huge difference. They also fail to account that while one repair party can fix one fire on average, that only 50% of the damage taken from shells can be fixed.

 

As to what role they play - like any class other than CV (because they've made them mostly generic boxes at this point lacking any real flavour like RTS) it depends on what nation your playing. IJN tend to be more long range BB killers, Germany, while in desperate need of ways to deal with IFHE, is still king of cruiser hunting, and to a degree even DD's. French BB's are high speed flankers that lean more toward cruiser hunting, American's are somewhat JoaT with good AA (others have better AA at this point), UK is long range fire starter since I believe they removed the shorter shell arm time that made them extra lethal against CL and DD. The question mark comes to does the team give adequate support, and for shorter range ones - can you get close. If you can get close, a German BB can still cause havoc - especially with it's actually buffed secondary guns and having ones that can pen 32mm or more. Though the loss of accuracy needs to be adjusted for by the devs. 

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Fun is subjective. You don't enjoy them as much as other classes, that's fine. On my part they're my favorite class. Every person likes different types of ships, that's why there's so many kinds.

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2 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

OP != fun.  For me at least.  I have lots of German and some US BB that are secondary builds.  I have Slava which is a long range accurate sniper.

Neither of these play styles are on the bleeding edge of competitive, but that doesn't mean they are not fun take a match.

Yeah, I never cared about the meta myself anyways, personally. I just use whichever ships I like, with the builds I want. SADLY, due to the massive secondaries accuracy loss though, my secondary builds are.....MUCH less effective than pre-Commander Skills Rework, let's just say that. So much for that build diversity :P

When Oklahoma, or heck, Ohio, is BETTER and more consistent as a long-range sniper versus using her USN accurate secondaries, you know you've got a problem....

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Right now BB's are pretty much just long-range artillery support and dead eye synergized well with this. But then they removed it because some people cried about good aim being rewarded...?

It's also sad to see the thing that BB's are supposed to counter (cruisers) being able to dumpster a BB from across the map with fires.

Supposed "super battleships" just get melted by destroyers and cruisers alike.

WG continues to coddle the DD population, evident by the recent rocket rework which leaves many less-skilled CV's virtually unable to deal with DD's.

We need a desperate Battleship buff, and we need it now.

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Just now, Arctic_Chann said:

But then they removed it because some people cried about good aim being rewarded...?

Tbh, I think the REAL reason people complained about Dead eye was the fact that it was promoting a style of play that is seen as "not good for the game" (backline sniping). aside from thatm the boost it gave was considerable, BUT it was the condition itself that needed changing, not the buff.

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1 minute ago, Arctic_Chann said:

We need a desperate Battleship buff, and we need it now.

And Swift in Silence is DEFINITELY not the buff we're looking for. That's a guarantee. Swift in Silence MIGHT be useful if it was just +10% speed, no conditions. that would honestly be QUITE interesting on slow Standard type battleships....

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4 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

And Swift in Silence is DEFINITELY not the buff we're looking for. That's a guarantee. Swift in Silence MIGHT be useful if it was just +10% speed, no conditions. that would honestly be QUITE interesting on slow Standard type battleships....

Id take that on my Bismarck in a heart beat.

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Being a coop only player, my own point of view is that the new norm of 4 little cockroaches, I mean DD's per team is mostly not fun for me in a BB. This is my view from a coop only standpoint. A side effect of this new norm is I'm playing less, which the wife approves of.

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2 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

Id take that on my Bismarck in a heart beat.

Are you kidding, Imagine California with +10% speed? 22 knots vs 20.5 knots? And THEN add the speed flag? FINALLY, you can get moving :P

Please Wargaming. Please. Make Swift in Silence a flat 10% speed buff. Please.

PLEASE!

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12 minutes ago, Arctic_Chann said:

Right now BB's are pretty much just long-range artillery support and dead eye synergized well with this. But then they removed it because some people cried about good aim being rewarded...?

It's also sad to see the thing that BB's are supposed to counter (cruisers) being able to dumpster a BB from across the map with fires.

Supposed "super battleships" just get melted by destroyers and cruisers alike.

WG continues to coddle the DD population, evident by the recent rocket rework which leaves many less-skilled CV's virtually unable to deal with DD's.

We need a desperate Battleship buff, and we need it now.

First of all, CAs until tier IX suffer from lack of range. When all you have to work with is 15.4-16km things get really tense.

That aside wanna know why cruisers and DDs "melt" and "dumpster" a BB? Because someone gave them bows and afts that can be only overmatched by 3 ships. Yamato, Musashi, Shikishima. I will grant you HE and fires can be too much at times especially if you tend to repair them quickly, but it's also the only way for a CA or DD to deal some damage that sticks to BBs. 

So it's a pretty simple question. Want everyone to be bowtanking and just hoping for a hit, or to have a tool to punish that deadlock?

 

Edited by warheart1992
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2 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

Are you kidding, Imagine California with +10% speed? 22 knots vs 20.5 knots? And THEN add the speed flag? FINALLY, you can get moving :P

Please Wargaming. Please. Make Swift in Silence a flat 10% speed buff. Please.

PLEASE!

....think of Georgia or Bourg. xD

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BB is the most team-dependent class in the game.  The skilled playerbase grows smaller by the day, unless you're insanely good at the class you actually only hurt yourself by playing battleship alot.  You alone are expected to fill more and more roles, and battleship fails to do this.  

It can be very rewarding, but those moments aren't created as much anymore.  The playerbase isn't capable of it.  If you are a player who can think on their feet and execute even decently, play anything else and you'll see better numbers.  That is the truth of the game at this stage.

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Completely disagree 

I love the RM BBS I've waited 5 years for them.

I play like a heavy cruiser they have great mobility and when the hit it's glorious.

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8 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

....think of Georgia or Bourg. xD

Quality Starts, 2019 Fantasy Baseball

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1 minute ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

Quality Starts, 2019 Fantasy Baseball

Cue, Running in the 90s. 

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20 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Fun is subjective. You don't enjoy them as much as other classes, that's fine. On my part they're my favorite class. Every person likes different types of ships, that's why there's so many kinds.

Same here, i got into this game to play battleships, just like i got into WoT to play heavy tanks, i also like heavy cruisers but i tried a few games in a Destroyer and i didn't like it and light cruisers i can't play, sitting behind an island and spamming HE is a snooze fest, i don't care if it leads to wins, i can't play like that but as far as battleships go i have no problem moving up but if i see a smoke screen i'm turning around, i will not be obliging towards destroyers, i will not set myself up for mass torpedo strikes.

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47 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

....think of Georgia or Bourg. xD

DelightfulEnchantedDonkey-max-1mb.gif

1 hour ago, Arctic_Chann said:

Right now BB's are pretty much just long-range artillery support and dead eye synergized well with this. But then they removed it because some people cried about good aim being rewarded...?

It's also sad to see the thing that BB's are supposed to counter (cruisers) being able to dumpster a BB from across the map with fires.

Supposed "super battleships" just get melted by destroyers and cruisers alike.

WG continues to coddle the DD population, evident by the recent rocket rework which leaves many less-skilled CV's virtually unable to deal with DD's.

We need a desperate Battleship buff, and we need it now.

no need for a buff just a rework on their roles. Sniper BBs are doing fine, The problem is on the brawler ones that lost their role and are pushed into sniping becouse brawling involves high risk with little to no real advantages over sitting at the back and sniping.

WG realy needs to add skills that support close range combat, as an exmple:

*Concealment expert: from -10% to detection to -20% to detection and -15% to main guns max range

*super heavy AP: replace fire penalty with -20% to shell initial speed

*AA Gunner replace it with targeting system modification: AA guns gain +15% to accuracy, main guns +10% to dispersion 

*Expert AA Marksman: remove that noob trap and replace it with: 

            skills and modules that increace secondary guns rate of fire olso apply to long range AA DPM

            skills and modules that increace secondary guns range olso apply to long range AA range

*ISBA changed to tracer shells for secondary guns: reduce dispersion of main and secondary guns over time against targeted ship when within secondary range, breaking line of sight or moving away from secondary range reset the counter (the more time targeted enemy ship spend within secondary range the more accurate the guns become)

*close quarter expert: make it olso add better rudder shift and acceleration/desaceleration speed when within secondary range

Edited by pepe_trueno

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Totally agree. The battleship class is not in a good spot. Its really stuck in  long range fire support role, without the skills to do a good job. 

Edited by Rothgar_57

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I have 2 general builds for my BBs, one that supports Long/Mid range (Alabama types) and the other that is more Mid/Close support (Pomm/Mass types).

Honestly, I enjoy playing all ship types equally - but enjoying all equally, and being as equally good in all.....well that's a work in progress! :Smile_honoring:

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1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

First of all, CAs until tier IX suffer from lack of range. When all you have to work with is 15.4-16km things get really tense.

That aside wanna know why cruisers and DDs "melt" and "dumpster" a BB? Because someone gave them bows and afts that can be only overmatched by 3 ships. Yamato, Musashi, Shikishima. I will grant you HE and fires can be too much at times especially if you tend to repair them quickly, but it's also the only way for a CA or DD to deal some damage that sticks to BBs. 

So it's a pretty simple question. Want everyone to be bowtanking and just hoping for a hit, or to have a tool to punish that deadlock?

  

When ships could bow tank more then you could get close range BBs able to survive a push into the enemies to force side shots through maneuver. Now you just get hide behind an island and mass HE ships to death with Fire which works just fine. The lack of ability to do this also leads to all these major blowouts since once a side starts to fall it falls fast and can't really be recovered, and this applies to every class. Maybe Wargaming should have spent some time where being able to take damage better was the big selling point on new lines instead of constantly focusing on bigger or better damage.

 

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