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QueenGaladriel

How to Nerf Realism and Devalue Skill: Disable Friendly Fire

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This is an awful move both for realism and the quality of play given the loss of fire discipline. Development should be going in the opposite direction by implementing the following:

- Modeling enemy and friendly rammings identically;

- Modeling ramming debris for real damage;

- Modeling ramming islands for real damage.

The latter two issues would stop the common, abusive strategy of utilizing islands and debris as no-harm ways to stop quickly and shield yourself from fish.

Flame away. . .

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It stops bots from killing me, which has happened alot because they launch torps...all over. This is a good thing.

Now i wont get penalized for bots. Or for players who drop torpedoes at the ship im dancing with.

Imo friendly fire should just be turned off with no pink/warning etc.

Realism should always take a back seat to gameplay unlesd the game is supposed to be realisitic. This game is not.

 

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I don't see this as a problem at all as it will give some of the a-hole players less incentive to torp their own teammates because they don't like something they said in the chat. It also protects the team from unskilled potatoes who fire off torps without bothering to look whether anyone on their team might be in harms way. 

There's no downside to this update.

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Most importantly, this might be the change needed for Kitikami.

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When I am in Raptor Rescue FIRST to the three enemies on the right at game scenario start, the DD gets a few rounds while I concentrate on Cruiser. Hydro is going etc. Cruiser gets taken out and somewhere in all that the torps from say the Nurnberg is on way to BB already.

I regularly get THUMP of friendly torps HITTING Me. Since the scenario has no TK its not a problem.

Whats the problem then?

There are people piling in behind me and my little ship with theirs crowding in to get kills. Those who have torps have launched them already. Im in the way being first in line ahead of the thundering herd.

THUMP THUMP THUMP.

There is no motivation whatsoever to build a proper simulation or REALISTIC game modeling when you are surrounded by IDIOTS who just launch fast out of greed hoping for torp kills etc. Because its faster than shooting all day at the enemy Bot ships.

Then they give me salt. Especially if my torps or AP kills the enemy or all three. It ges worse when they demand on game radio to get me back, when three more cruisers are coming in in that North corner.

What a mess. Seriously you cannot build a efficient lethal fleet out of cats doing their own thing and ignoring you and what you are trying to do by example.

 

It is good that TK is being removed in patch 10.5 I support it. Why? Lets say there is a game start in Ranked. I am going to the middle base to capture it. Everyone else goes to the near base hoping to score a capture. One of them puts just enough rounds into me as a semi TK to ensure I do not survive trying to catch a middle objective when detected by the reds.

With such stupid schoolyard crap like that might as well remove the TK mech entirely. Toss it. Maybe it will save us from ourselves.

Its been years. Pass the SALT. I quit giving a goddamn long ago. And you wonder why my chat is disabled.

Edited by xHeavy
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54 minutes ago, QueenGaladriel said:

This is an awful move both for realism and the quality of play given the loss of fire discipline. Development should be going in the opposite direction by implementing the following:

- Modeling enemy and friendly rammings identically;

- Modeling ramming debris for real damage;

- Modeling ramming islands for real damage.

The latter two issues would stop the common, abusive strategy of utilizing islands and debris as no-harm ways to stop quickly and shield yourself from fish.

Flame away. . .

Those would also drive casual players from the game, and deplete the queues.

You want that level of realism, then I want realistic battlefields without islands in the middle.

And I don't see where the loss of fire discipline comes from. Currently, you (hopefully) avoid hitting teammates so that you don't what? Have a pink icon? Big deal, nobody cares enough about that, or their teammates, to be specifically cautious. Now, those who don't pay attention will actually be tangibly penalised.

IOW, with the exception of skilled players who will find ways to leverage this, nobody's going to change how they play. It's just that the carefree are going to start paying their tab.

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40 torp hits?

WOW...Asashio just got a big boost.  Half my torp shots at the moment are limited due to potential friendlies in line of fire.  Now..I can unload a full spread at range and not worry about the few that "might" hit a friendly.

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1 hour ago, QueenGaladriel said:

This is an awful move both for realism and the quality of play given the loss of fire discipline. Development should be going in the opposite direction by implementing the following:

- Modeling enemy and friendly rammings identically;

- Modeling ramming debris for real damage;

- Modeling ramming islands for real damage.

The latter two issues would stop the common, abusive strategy of utilizing islands and debris as no-harm ways to stop quickly and shield yourself from fish.

Flame away. . .

Incoming fire has the right of way, and, friendly fire is more accurate?

Personally, I think removing friendly fire damage lowers the skill-floor.
Play badly and yes, it costs the team if one or more players hit their team-mates with ordnance or sail in a manner that produces collisions.
This should affect the outcome of a battle.

I was totally fine with the system (which is about to be removed) for assessing penalties for unsporting conduct.
The only quibble I had was the co-op restriction.  Co-op players don't want bad play any more than random battle players do.  And why should co-op players have to suffer fools any more than random players, eh?
Let the unsporting behavior rack-up the penalties in whatever mode they choose to play in, and then ban them to the training room when they reach a threshold, in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, QueenGaladriel said:

This is an awful move both for realism and the quality of play given the loss of fire discipline. Development should be going in the opposite direction by implementing the following:

- Modeling enemy and friendly rammings identically;

- Modeling ramming debris for real damage;

- Modeling ramming islands for real damage.

The latter two issues would stop the common, abusive strategy of utilizing islands and debris as no-harm ways to stop quickly and shield yourself from fish.

Flame away. . .

Ah yes, because accidently bumping into someone while getting out of spawn and killing both of you before the game even starts would be a ton fun.:fish_palm:

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1 hour ago, Princess_Daystar said:

It stops bots from killing me, which has happened alot because they launch torps...all over. This is a good thing.

Now i wont get penalized for bots. Or for players who drop torpedoes at the ship im dancing with.

Imo friendly fire should just be turned off with no pink/warning etc.

Realism should always take a back seat to gameplay unlesd the game is supposed to be realisitic. This game is not.

 

The problem with this is that it eliminates tactics, such as getting so close to an enemy ship in order to shield yourself from fire from other enemy ships.

I don't care much if the damage done by friendly fire is applied to the ship that was hit or the ship that fired, but friendly fire needs to have consequences.

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Good riddance friendly fire. You won't be missed. 

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2 hours ago, QueenGaladriel said:

This is an awful move both for realism and the quality of play given the loss of fire discipline. Development should be going in the opposite direction by implementing the following:

- Modeling enemy and friendly rammings identically;

- Modeling ramming debris for real damage;

- Modeling ramming islands for real damage.

The latter two issues would stop the common, abusive strategy of utilizing islands and debris as no-harm ways to stop quickly and shield yourself from fish.

Flame away. . .

That's one of those ideas that look great on paper and would probably work fine for a single player game. Considering the amount of idiocy and braindead in PUB games, it just would make the experience pure suffering.

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Just like another game called battlefield. You are in singapore in a high rise. Two enemies in the elevator. Toss a grenade into the cab and take em both out.

But watch the rest of your team, oh.. 10 people or so stuff themselves into that cab with knives out hoping to get a few slashes in ignoring the frag that is about to TK the entire thing. BOOM. Insta banned by script.

Lovely. Just lovely.

Its a wonder we took Fallujah in urban combat over a week without killing one another.

As god is my witness the most brain dead public game ever was in Titan 2140 I think it was. there I am in the end of the aft landing deck, enter the corridor that has enemies inside trying to destroy a console halfway up the long hall way. Well there happened to be about 17 Players lined up all the way to the console waiting on so and so to blow the thing.

I got knife out, killed one. Then moved to the next and the next and the next. The kill messages scrolled. knife knife knife knife and knife. 18 kills later the WTFs started rolling in. But there it was in stats at the end of game 18 knife kills. Makes me sick.

Edited by xHeavy

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I have no problems with friendly fire being removed. What I do think is a problem is removing the XP/credit gains from people who turn pink. That's just something which will almost certainly be abused and used to troll/grief people.

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3 minutes ago, leops_1984 said:

I have no problems with friendly fire being removed. What I do think is a problem is removing the XP/credit gains from people who turn pink. That's just something which will almost certainly be abused and used to troll/grief people.

I frankly dont give a damn anymore.

So its zero? Big deal, load up another ship with a 50% bonus and try again. Repeat until sicky of it.

IF that becomes widespread it might destroy the game. I would have no problems moving on to other game and vendors towards 2022. Serves WG right.

Edited by xHeavy

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40 minutes ago, leops_1984 said:

I have no problems with friendly fire being removed. What I do think is a problem is removing the XP/credit gains from people who turn pink. That's just something which will almost certainly be abused and used to troll/grief people.

You have to have a lot of hits to teammates to turn pink and have your XP/credits taken.

3 hours ago, Skuggsja said:

Most importantly, this might be the change needed for Kitikami.

We get this comment every time this discussion comes up.  I'd guess the change to friendly fire has more to do with subs firing homing torps that can go astray when the lock is lost.  Also, to prevent depth charges from damaging friendly subs.

The change that allows for the Kitikami's arrival is of course the auctions.

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Realism.

Please stop using that word. It has no bearing on the game.

Realism. Indeed, realism because when an ally stole your kill or failed to smoke or spot at your command you torped or salvo'ed them in real life. 

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4 hours ago, QueenGaladriel said:

This is an awful move both for realism and the quality of play given the loss of fire discipline. Development should be going in the opposite direction by implementing the following:

- Modeling enemy and friendly rammings identically;

- Modeling ramming debris for real damage;

- Modeling ramming islands for real damage.

The latter two issues would stop the common, abusive strategy of utilizing islands and debris as no-harm ways to stop quickly and shield yourself from fish.

Flame away. . .

The only thing I see as awful is the large number of hits required before punishment. IMO it should be 20 & 25 friendly fire hits result in disciplinary action. 

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You know there is another game with more realism if you want that starts with W and ends with Thunder.

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this improves the game, those things have no place in this arcade.

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Theres no realism in this game to begin with. Go play [edited] if you wanna be a piss ant to your teammates. I'm glad they realized if we have to suffer with griefers and bad players, at least we shouldn't suffer from them doing team damage.

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griefers gonna grief

best to not give them any tools to do so

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On 6/12/2021 at 1:01 PM, Skuggsja said:

Most importantly, this might be the change needed for Kitikami.

why? what does that ship do so it could cause damage to allies?

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On 6/12/2021 at 4:27 PM, leops_1984 said:

I have no problems with friendly fire being removed. What I do think is a problem is removing the XP/credit gains from people who turn pink. That's just something which will almost certainly be abused and used to troll/grief people.

You need to try REALLY HARD to score this penalty. Forty hits on the same friendly ship or fifty across the entire team in any one battle. I don't see griefers managing to farm that level of team damage, quite frankly.

On 6/12/2021 at 6:09 PM, kgh52 said:

The only thing I see as awful is the large number of hits required before punishment. IMO it should be 20 & 25 friendly fire hits result in disciplinary action. 

Given the draconian nature of the punishment, they're setting the bar generously while we're all learning. It was set far too low in the Dev Blog (15 of any hit), and PTS 10.5 testing probably showed them that it was too easily exceeded by certain ships.

Could it have been set lower? Maybe. But 40 and 50 makes sure that anyone who gets a "friendly" bot or griefer cut in front of them while they're in binocular view in a rapid-fire ship (or who gets troll-nudged out of smoke so that their arcs suddenly cover a parked friendly who was previously safe) has enough time to take their finger off the trigger. Exceeding that requires you to put three full salvoes from a Smolensk into a friendly ship, and gives you those vital extra few seconds to register the situation (among everything else you're dealing with) and stop tapping the LMB.

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14 minutes ago, crazyrom said:

why? what does that ship do so it could cause damage to allies?

Imagine the torpedo armament of two and a half Benhams squeezed onto the deck of a Tier 4 Kuma, then ask yourself that question again. The Kitakami's torps in last year's test iteration, by the way, had a range of 15km (Yudachi torpedoes).

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