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Deputy276

Please do something with CV play in PvE

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Right now, it is a complete joke. Just as people HATE CVs in PvP, in PvE, they are also hated, but for different reasons. Right now, it is nothing short of a miracle for a CV to score in the top 3. Usually, they are at the very bottom. Why? Because bot AA fire is absolutely RIDICULOUS. Between all clumping together at upper tiers, and the outrageous accuracy of bot ships that NEVER miss, the vast majority of CV players in PvE simply DON'T play them. Or they have sold them all off to buy other, more effective ships. 
This is a shame, because the CVs back before the "big change", were actually quite viable to play in PvE using Easy mode. I normally scored in the top 3 every game. So what can be done to make CVs great again in PvE?

#1 GREATLY reduce bot AA accuracy. 

This alone would make the CVs much more enjoyable to play. Right now, bots have laser-aiming and NEVER miss a target. That's just plain ridiculous. And if you are thinking this will drive us out of PvE and into PvP play, forgetaboutit. I'll sell EVERY CV I own before I would ever play PvP. 

 

 

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The AA isnt the problem. The lack of time to do damage is.

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30 minutes ago, Deputy276 said:

#1 GREATLY reduce bot AA accuracy. 

People already think that bots are very easy to kill, and for cvs the lack of maneuvering and being quite predictable makes them easy for CVs, and I doubt the aa is enchanted, as both player and bot ships have AI flak. I will try playing a CV in operations now to see about the aa.

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21 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

The AA isnt the problem. The lack of time to do damage is.

Pretty much this.

Old RTS carriers were pretty fun in Co-op.

There’s a reason Bogue is still my most played ship.

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55 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

The AA isnt the problem. The lack of time to do damage is.

^^This is the reason why CVs do poorly in co-op.  The one instance when they will make it to the top 3, is when playing in a 2 human+7 bot game.  But this is really a function of extending the game.

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1 hour ago, RipNuN2 said:

The AA isnt the problem. The lack of time to do damage is.

 

1 hour ago, HamptonRoads said:

^^This is the reason why CVs do poorly in co-op.  The one instance when they will make it to the top 3, is when playing in a 2 human+7 bot game.  But this is really a function of extending the game.

 

I agree. The rework turned the CV's into a pseudo-DoT class, where they need time to do their thing... except a typical Coop matches can last as short as five minutes. That's simply not enough time for a CV to pile on the damage, and will probably spend more time flying from point A to point B.

As Hampton mentioned, they can still work in those Coop matches with low number of humans... but that's because those kind of matches can drag on for several more minutes, which actually allow the CV's to do something, for a change.

Playing a CV in Coop means you gotta be aggressive. Not yoloing, to the point where you lose all your planes during the first few minutes, but just aggressive enough to keep launching strikes, before your team gobbles up all the damages and kills. There's just no other way around it... lol. :cap_old:

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1 hour ago, RipNuN2 said:

The AA isnt the problem. The lack of time to do damage is.

Yep.  You can aim for a higher spot on the board (going after DD's), or more damage (going after BB's).  Usually won't be able to get both unless things go pear shaped.

 

1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Pretty much this.

Old RTS carriers were pretty fun in Co-op.

There’s a reason Bogue is still my most played ship.

Definitely.  It was very easy to place top in an RTS CV when used properly.

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10 minutes ago, Volron said:

Yep.  You can aim for a higher spot on the board (going after DD's)

Yep I usually try to torp dds at the start to maximize xp.

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Another thing you can try is to push up with your carrier too. I don't recommend just parking your ship at the J line, as that'll just increase the flight time unnecessarily. Rather, you want to try to keep your carrier somewhat close to the action, so you can shorten the flight time, to have a chance at launching more strikes, overall.

Of course, you wouldn't want to be too close to the action (unless your carrier is named Graf Zeppelin), and certainly not exposed out in the open. You will need to make a smart use of the islands to keep your carrier safe from any direct line of sight from the bots. Yes, it's sometimes very tricky to do, as it can end up having your carrier inadvertently run into an enemy bot... but if you do manage to pull it off successfully, then you could find yourself in a good position to close distance with the enemy red bot CV, at the end of the match, and shoot down a bote load (lol pun) of red planes for some easy EXP... lel. :Smile_trollface:

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3 hours ago, Deputy276 said:

Right now, it is a complete joke. Just as people HATE CVs in PvP, in PvE, they are also hated, but for different reasons. Right now, it is nothing short of a miracle for a CV to score in the top 3. Usually, they are at the very bottom. Why? Because bot AA fire is absolutely RIDICULOUS. Between all clumping together at upper tiers, and the outrageous accuracy of bot ships that NEVER miss, the vast majority of CV players in PvE simply DON'T play them. Or they have sold them all off to buy other, more effective ships. 
This is a shame, because the CVs back before the "big change", were actually quite viable to play in PvE using Easy mode. I normally scored in the top 3 every game. So what can be done to make CVs great again in PvE?

#1 GREATLY reduce bot AA accuracy. 

This alone would make the CVs much more enjoyable to play. Right now, bots have laser-aiming and NEVER miss a target. That's just plain ridiculous. And if you are thinking this will drive us out of PvE and into PvP play, forgetaboutit. I'll sell EVERY CV I own before I would ever play PvP. 

Perhaps you mean Co-Op?  The AA in Co-Op can feel oppressive if you're running a Tier 8 or 10 depending on what bots are clustered.  They all run together, so it can be daunting.

If you mean Operations, they're actually quite forgiving (though the later waves will definitely incur plane loss)

Here's a video of a Defense of Naval Station Newport.  It's a great test of your aim as the Operation is such a damage race.

Raw Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkNWP2VBHsE

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1 hour ago, Volron said:

Yep.  You can aim for a higher spot on the board (going after DD's), or more damage (going after BB's).  Usually won't be able to get both unless things go pear shaped.

lol

Been in plenty of those battles.

Always wondered what players who died early and left me alone facing a bunch of bots (3, 4, or more,) thought when the battle came up a win.

Loved that her two 127/25s were stern mounted. You could run (crawl?) away from the bots, and those two guns would be popping away.

USS_Bogue_(ACV-9)_underway_near_Norfolk,

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23 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

lol

Been in plenty of those battles.

Always wondered what players who died early and left me alone facing a bunch of bots (3, 4, or more,) thought when the battle came up a win.

Loved that her two 127/25s were stern mounted. You could run (crawl?) away from the bots, and those two guns would be popping away.

USS_Bogue_(ACV-9)_underway_near_Norfolk,

In all the times I've had it come down to the wire like that, only once did I have someone msg me shortly after.  "You managed to win?  Nice!".  But this was ages ago, during RTS days.

What had me rollin is when you actually sank something with Bogue's secondaries. :Smile_veryhappy:

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37 minutes ago, Volron said:

What had me rollin is when you actually sank something with Bogue's secondaries. :Smile_veryhappy:

Had that happen of course, but my Langley once had its moment of glory; one of the 4-inchers det’d a 40%-ish Minekaze that ran me into a corner on Solomons, then got close to make sure.

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Step 1. Play German CVs, specced into secondaries

Step 2. Charge forward like a maniac DD.

Step 3. ?????

Step 4. Profit

^ at least thats what i do, and im often in the center or higher as a CV.

All joking aside they cant do anything to CVs in PVE UNLESS they make the bots kite more and hang back, and at that point the matches get longer and people get saltier, no ty. If they made teams full sized and limited DDs to two or three per game maybe things would last longer.

CV play doesnt mix well with COOP, they are however good in operations. Would be nice if we had a place to use tier 8 and 10 CVs in ops.

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1 hour ago, Princess_Daystar said:

Step 1. Play German CVs, specced into secondaries

Step 2. Charge forward like a maniac DD.

Step 3. ?????

Step 4. Profit

^ at least thats what i do, and im often in the center or higher as a CV.

All joking aside they cant do anything to CVs in PVE UNLESS they make the bots kite more and hang back, and at that point the matches get longer and people get saltier, no ty. If they made teams full sized and limited DDs to two or three per game maybe things would last longer.

CV play doesnt mix well with COOP, they are however good in operations. Would be nice if we had a place to use tier 8 and 10 CVs in ops.

I well remember you applying this approach in your GZ (I think...) alongside my Musashi as we did the "Channel Run" toward B on the Greece Map and obliterated a bunch of bots.....

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1 minute ago, DJC_499 said:

I well remember you applying this approach in your GZ (I think...) alongside my Musashi as we did the "Channel Run" toward B on the Greece Map and obliterated a bunch of bots.....

I still dont know how i survived that >.>

I use it in my GZ, Weser, AvP and Max. Cant wait to get MvR.

Usually end up doing about 60-80k before i get killed. Max has topped out at over 100k a few times.

now, it took me alooong time to figure out that playstyle and for the first bunch of matches i tried it in i died. Horribly with less than 10k damage. As ive learned to dodge flak and aim better with the planes my damage has been going up too.

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22 hours ago, RipNuN2 said:

The AA isnt the problem. The lack of time to do damage is.

It's not the lack of time, it's the MAJOR nerfing of torpedo damage. Even if you hit a BB, you hardly even see any damage. Especially with tier 4 and 6 CVs. It's too bad there is no "kamikaze option". Maybe then you might actually do some damage.:Smile_veryhappy: Before the big change, I regularly killed 2-3 ships In PvE and scored at the top of my team. Often I had to pull the fat out of the fire and save the game with a CV. That will NEVER happen any more. When you maximum torp damage (in Langley) is 3500, and most time you lose almost all of your aircraft to AA, you will never be the "hero" of the team. And remember, we are playing at the EXACT same amount of time we played BEFORE the big change. So it's not the time. I have no idea why WG turned the CV from a strategic ship to a tactical one. Nobody ever asked for complete control of the planes. If we wanted that we would play World of Warplanes, or even better, IL-2 Sturmovik. 

Edited by Deputy276

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22 hours ago, Boomer625 said:

People already think that bots are very easy to kill, and for cvs the lack of maneuvering and being quite predictable makes them easy for CVs, and I doubt the aa is enchanted, as both player and bot ships have AI flak. I will try playing a CV in operations now to see about the aa.

I am NOT talking about killing bots. I am talking about BOT AA KILLING HUMANS. Try playing a PvE game with a CV at tier 8 in standard mode, not Ops. and you will see what I mean. Short of (maybe) having a Captain with over 20 skills, it's pretty much impossible to get a kill. Only time it happen is if you leach a kill on a ship that is 95% already dead.

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1 hour ago, Deputy276 said:

I am NOT talking about killing bots. I am talking about BOT AA KILLING HUMANS. Try playing a PvE game with a CV at tier 8 in standard mode, not Ops. and you will see what I mean. Short of (maybe) having a Captain with over 20 skills, it's pretty much impossible to get a kill. Only time it happen is if you leach a kill on a ship that is 95% already dead.

Bot aa is the same as human/player aa, as both are controlled by the AI, unless the bot aa is tweaked to be more deadly than the base aa capabilities of a ship. Besides, heals and the addition of the slot 5 upgrade slot mitigates aa damage. 

 

Ok I will take my Lexington out (10 pt capt last time I checked) and see how it does in plane losses. I typically lose around 40-70 planes per randoms match, depending on top/broom tier, length of game, etc.

Edited by Boomer625

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10 hours ago, Boomer625 said:

Bot aa is the same as human/player aa, as both are controlled by the AI, unless the bot aa is tweaked to be more deadly than the base aa capabilities of a ship. Besides, heals and the addition of the slot 5 upgrade slot mitigates aa damage. 

 

Ok I will take my Lexington out (10 pt capt last time I checked) and see how it does in plane losses. I typically lose around 40-70 planes per randoms match, depending on top/broom tier, length of game, etc.

Bot AA in Co-op gets the same magical RNG their main guns get. No matter how much you WASD the flak clouds always appear right in front of you and pound your squads. Not only that but the bots clump up for most of the early game so you can't get an attack on a ship that doesn't involve running the gauntlet of multiple AA's. Also factor in short games so AA is not destroyed by HE spam as it is in PVP and you are always attacking ships with 90%+ AA. 

I am not saying CV in Co-op is "hard" but the bot AA IS BRUTAL! Even FDR can lose a butt load of planes.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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7 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Bot AA in Co-op gets the same magical RNG their main guns get. No matter how much you WASD the flak clouds always appear right in front of you and pound your squads. Not only that but the bots clump up for most of the early game so you can't get an attack on a ship that doesn't involve running the gauntlet of multiple AA's. Also factor in short games so AA is not destroyed by HE spam as it is in PVP and you are always attacking ships with 90%+ AA. 

I am not saying CV in Co-op is "hard" but the bot AA IS BRUTAL! Even FDR can lose a butt load of planes.

Here. Took out Lexington in COOP, got decent damage, hindered by how short the game was. Lost 28 planes, a significant portion due to attacking the enemy CV, which was expected due to fighter cover and enhanced CV flak. This is way less than in randoms, and I was attacking groups of 3-4 ships.

D56E0308-3E38-445F-82B8-A03AA43D58D2.jpeg

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On 5/26/2021 at 10:23 PM, LadyJess said:

I miss my Bogue, WG should be it back.

I too miss Bogue, the most successful escort carrier with 13 submarines sunk

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1 hour ago, Boomer625 said:

Here. Took out Lexington in COOP, got decent damage, hindered by how short the game was. Lost 28 planes, a significant portion due to attacking the enemy CV, which was expected due to fighter cover and enhanced CV flak. This is way less than in randoms, and I was attacking groups of 3-4 ships.

No offense but I have to be skeptical of what you are implying here. At least put me down for wanting to know more.

  • AA works the same in both modes (automated) and the bots get their magical RNG for their flak like their main guns. Bots also properly cycle their AA unlike so many humans. So if you attacked groups of 3-4 bots repeatedly you would at a minimum take as much damage/lose as many planes as you would vs human players (if not more once again due to their magic RNG with flak and proper use of AA sector reinforcement)
  • It was a short game you say and you claim to have lost most of your planes vs the red CV. Ok, how about posting your detail page so we can see what you actually attacked and did your damage to. Sounds more like you went after the CV rather than the other ships. 
  • You lost 50%+ of your planes which is not insignificant in a "short game" even attacking the CV to account for some of it
  • What tier and ships were you facing in the game? Were you going against T6 ships with no AA or facing T10?

I would like to see your details page as it would fill in a lot of info the results page doesn't. Too much info missing.

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21 hours ago, Deputy276 said:

 

That's because CVs are more dependent on DOTs for damage than the huge alpha strikes prior to the rework. Racking up lots of DOT damage is dependent upon time to work. COOP battles dont last long for that to happen. Operations on the other hand, have lots of time to deal damage and I can put out large numbers with Ryujo. For the record I did want complete plane control as did some other players in the past. How are you running out of planes in the Langley? AA at that tier is pretty abysmal even if bots are grouped up some. Ive attached a screenie of one of my ryujo battles from killer whale using the rework system. They are still quite effective in a PVE mode when given time to work.

shot-20.03.01_22.26.29-0230.jpg

Edited by RipNuN2

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