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SeaLord_MacKraken

Skipping T9s?

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It seems like most of tech tree T9s with all upgrades often cost more than T10s of the same line.

For example, with maximum clan's discount on ships cost of the T9s with all upgrades exceeds the cost of T10s, that get stock modules that are already as good as they can get (most of the time).

image.png.33196f16989f9bb2007284c65a0c552e.png

Skipping T9 for FXP saves time for grinding and credits for buying. But of cause getting FXP takes more time than leveling up one ship.

On the other hand game economy works in such way that it becomes more difficult to earn credits playing higher tier ships. So it may take a really, really long time for a T9 to pay for itself, let alone make money to buy a T10.

So using FXP to skip T9s entirely may seem like a viable alternative for the cases when T9 is also not a particularly good ship, and keeping it doesn't sound exciting.

Also from gaming experience T8s when uptiered face the same ships as T9s and T10, so in terms of learning something T9s don't offer that much.

There are of cause good T9s that stand out, some probably even outshining their T10. E.g. they say that FLETCHER is a better T9 than GEARING is at T10. Some like ALSACE more than REPUBLIC, etc.

Or T9s could be just as good, e.g. KITAKAZE or JUTLAND seems great for their tier and worth keeping.

Question is: if skipping T9s for FXP is a good idea for some lines, what ships would you skip, and which are best to keep?

 

Thank you!

 

Edited by SeaLord_MacKraken
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Generally I wouldn't skip T9 because it's a large portion of the total grind and the FXP is better used elsewhere. 

Also a lot of T9 ships are actually pretty good, most T9 DDs are excellent, with some like you said the Fletcher being better tier for tier than the T10. Same with battleships, although I don't think any are better than their T10 counterparts. 

Of the ones I would skip, it'd probably be the cruisers, since those seem to have the most lemons (especially when compared to the supercruisers), like Neptune, Ibuki, Seattle, and so on. 

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Tier 9s are in a decent spot MM wise, so unless you got a real stinker it's a pretty decent experience. What T9s offer as a learning experience is getting you accustomed even more to the environment of extreme alpha and DPM that the top tiers are.

As to your question I'd say actually all tech tree tier IX DDs are perfectly workable with no need to FXP any. When it comes to cruisers I haven't heard the best stuff about Buffalo and St. Louis. Riga to me at least is skippable. As for BBs if memory serves Freddie and Lion are considered average at best.

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for me i skip most upgrades working through the line, too little bump for too much silver

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My T10s are for snowflake-type events only. Most don't even have modules installed as they're only out 2 or 3 times a year. I have a dozen or so T10 boats (BBs and CAs), but T9 has, for me, a greater actual earning potential as they can profit by 'interacting' with higher tier boats, which the 10s (for obvious reasons) cannot do. 

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You can play through the DDs in Tier IX, in general they're actually pretty good.

 

The BBs this tier are generally very meh.  Before some joker comes in saying, "But Tier IX Battleships are good!"

Shut up.  The Good Battleships in this tier are PREMIUM BBs like Musashi, Jean Bart.  The Tech Tree are decidedly meh in this tier.

 

The worst offenders this tier are the Cruisers.  They just suck a** compared to the competition they're dealing with.

 

You want to see the real truth in what people think about Tier IX?  Check them out if they still play that Tier IX ship after they got the succeeding Tier X.  I promise you the DDs see some action still for the tier, but BBs?  Less so.  Cruisers?  LOL!

Why play Roon when you got Hindenburg?

Why play the POS Buffalo, Seattle, when you got Baltimore, Cleveland below and Des Moines, Worcester above?

Why play Neptune when you got Minotaur?  Mino solves a major problem WG designed into Neptune.

 

Play through Kitakaze, Fletcher, Jutland?  Sure.  Those Cruisers though are just complete a**.

 

The funniest sh*t is whenever Tier IX Ranked has rolled around.  Regular Cruisers are useless fodder in IX Ranked because it's DD - BB - Super Cruiser country.  Regular Cruisers in Tier IX do not compete.  It was hilarious checking IX Ranked Stats and see when people just gave up on playing regular Cruisers.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Personally I’ve only used fxp to skip (or more accurately, finish) one grind - Iowa, as my first high tier grind. I loved NC and enjoyed playing rental Monty in the first season of clan battles, but I absolutely hated Iowa at that time. I ended up using about 70-80k fxp to get Montana in time for the start of the next CB season since at that time I was going to be one of only a few BB players in the clan on regularly. There have been a few other ships, especially t9s, that I’ve been tempted to skip, but so far I’ve decided against it every time. For me, the fxp is better spent elsewhere, on actual fxp only ships or the occasional RB reset skip. 

If you do decide to use fxp on a tech tree grind, I’d actually use it to research the upgraded modules. Especially at high tiers, the jump from upgraded t8 to stock t9 often feels more like a downgrade than an upgrade. Getting some of those upgraded modules makes them a lot more comfortable and easier to grind, without having to spend a large chunk of fxp to skip completely. And even less so when you think that the xp cost to go from t9 to 10 is a sizable chunk of the entire t1-10 cost. 

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Interestingly I was about to create a thread for... the exact opposite: focusing on T9, ignoring T10.

 

My only tech-tree T9s are Destroyers (Crap, I forgot I do have Alaska, which I have NEVER taken in random...) (Ostergotland, Jutland, Fletcher, Mogador, Kitakaze) and they are AWESOME. T9 much more often seems to fight other T9s, and even vs. T10 those ships don't feel so hopelessly outclassed. I've also got Friesland which... just does Friesland things, no-matter the tier.

Then I got Kleber, Daring, Halland, and researched Gearing... I mostly focused on Daring and... I am HATING IT.

 

The T10 meta is much slower, much more passive. I play Daring EXACTLY as I played Jutland (a ship I felt very comfortable in). I SUCK in Daring. One of my absolutely worst ship in terms of damage, PR, win-rate... just very, very bad.

I only played a few Halland and Kleber games but I felt the same. I'm focusing only on Marceau (which I just find better than Kleber) and Daring (which "feels" as good as Jutland but with better gunpower, and is a nice, versatile DD, so I want to focus on for my T10 learning), and I didn't even buy Gearing. I'm also considering not buying Harugumo.

 

And so my question was going to be about non-DDs; DDs are at a very good spot in T9. What about other boats? I guess your thread answers it... And from experience in battle fighting the likes of Seattle (which my Friesland can AP to death) or Neptune (which is just fodder for Mogador), I really do feel that for cruisers, it may not be all that great.

I don't play any BB lines right now, so no idea there.

 

I still wouldn't skip T9. If you have the FXP, good, but T9 is a great TIER even if the ships don't feel as good sometimes (DDs notwithstanding).

I have 2.3MM FXP right now, and I'm purposefully avoiding using them for reaching T10. I just get much more enjoyment from T9.

 

(I really disliked T7 and for DDs, enjoyed T8 and for Cruisers, hate T8. So T9 definitely feels like what the game *should* be for me: fun)

Edited by Count_pott

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I've never leveled any line to ten except cruisers.  And what they are saying is absolutely true.  Level IX tech tree cruisers are mostly horrible.  So I usually played them as long as I could stand it and Free experienced through the rest.  So I think, it just depends on how much you hate playing a certain IX ships.  Gawd how I hated Neptune and Seattle.

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T9 cruisers are pretty bad, since all the T9 money supercruisers are matched as if the two were equal.

The BBs no (mostly), the DDs no. But the cruisers, what WG did to them is just not right.

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1 minute ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

I've never leveled any line to ten except cruisers.  And what they are saying is absolutely true.  Level IX tech tree cruisers are mostly horrible.

I agree. I'll probably never go back and purchase any of the tier IX cruisers. I keep the Fletcher on hand in case there is a tier IX event and I also have the Georgia, which is a pretty good Premium tier IX BB.

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WoWS Stats & Numbers has one of the recent stat pulls for Ranked.  You can see the Tier IX numbers still, and when you look up the Tech Tree Cruisers there, it's just pathetic.  It also shows that the Tech Tree BBs just do not measure up to the Premiums namely Jean Bart, Musashi, Georgia.  It's only certain Tech Tree DDs (Mogador, Kitakaze, Jutland) that keep up with the powerful Premiums in Tier IX.

https://na.wows-numbers.com/season/1002,Season-2/

 

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45 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Mino solves a major problem WG designed into Neptune.

What was the problem? Heal?

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1 hour ago, SeaLord_MacKraken said:

Skipping T9s?

By SeaLord_MacKraken,

It seems like most of tech tree T9s with all upgrades often cost more than T10s of the same line. which are best to keep?

<edited for brevity>

Thank you!

 



I made it my personal mission-in-life to grind the Izumo completely (although I did use signal flags to help the process along) in order to unlock the Yamato.
For me, it was a worthwhile endeavor and I gained an appreciation & fondness for the ship and the Commander assigned as her Captain.

Since then, I've not spent FXP to grind up the ship tech-trees.
Not that my progress is particularly good or bad, but I've another criteria.
I'm saving my FXP for the purchase of a future ship.
I currently have 883,043 FXP.

That's me.  You're welcome to do "you", as you see fit.

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4 minutes ago, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

OP, your table appears not to include the cost of filling the upgrade slots on the T10s.

6.875M per T10.

That is because upgrades for T9 and T10 are the same: 6 slots to fill for both.

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14 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

WoWS Stats & Numbers has one of the recent stat pulls for Ranked.  You can see the Tier IX numbers still, and when you look up the Tech Tree Cruisers there, it's just pathetic.  It also shows that the Tech Tree BBs just do not measure up to the Premiums namely Jean Bart, Musashi, Georgia.  It's only certain Tech Tree DDs (Mogador, Kitakaze, Jutland) that keep up with the powerful Premiums in Tier IX.

https://na.wows-numbers.com/season/1002,Season-2/

 

THAT is a very interesting comparison. Thank you sir!

Interestingly, ZF-6 is 3-rd worst choice by win rate. If anyone is still contemplating on buying her..

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Just now, SeaLord_MacKraken said:

That is because upgrades for T9 and T10 are the same: 6 slots to fill for both.

You’re the one saying T9’s cost more than their T10 counterparts, and your table clearly says it has the costs of the upgrades in the T9’s, and doesn’t show them in the T10s.

Yes , they’re the same. But including them in one, and excluding them from the other, then presenting it as the basis for your cost claim, is entirely inaccurate.

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23 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

WoWS Stats & Numbers has one of the recent stat pulls for Ranked.  You can see the Tier IX numbers still, and when you look up the Tech Tree Cruisers there, it's just pathetic.  It also shows that the Tech Tree BBs just do not measure up to the Premiums namely Jean Bart, Musashi, Georgia.  It's only certain Tech Tree DDs (Mogador, Kitakaze, Jutland) that keep up with the powerful Premiums in Tier IX.

https://na.wows-numbers.com/season/1002,Season-2/

 

I mean, I'd use Izumo over JB and maybe Geo. I just don't because I want to get steel for clicking people to death with Musashi, laziness you know. :^)

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53 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

I agree. I'll probably never go back and purchase any of the tier IX cruisers. I keep the Fletcher on hand in case there is a tier IX event and I also have the Georgia, which is a pretty good Premium tier IX BB.

The Roon is pretty good, last I recall.  But overall, tier 9 tech tree cruisers do tend to fall behind their tier 9 premium versions.  But to be fair, there are no premium tier 9 heavy or light cruisers, only super cruisers and the CAs and CLs do not compare well to super cruisers.

 

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A Tier IX that you know you aren't going to want to keep playing is a good skip candidate. They have a lot of modules and getting them into top shape takes a lot of time and costs a lot of credits. Tier IX tech tree economics blow so you are often grinding cash in parallel.

Then there are the things like Minnesota or non-radar cruisers that are just painful. They will be in MM against better ships. 

 

 

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You present an interesting point OP, this is worth taking a deeper look... TY +1

Edited by ArIskandir

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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Why play Neptune when you got Minotaur?  Mino solves a major problem WG designed into Neptune.

What is the problem with Neptune you are talking about ? 

Although not a good player, I just sunk two ships with mine in a T9 match.

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2 hours ago, Boomer625 said:

What was the problem? Heal?

1 hour ago, Ericson38 said:

What is the problem with Neptune you are talking about ? 

Although not a good player, I just sunk two ships with mine in a T9 match.

They both have a great heal.

The problem Neptune has is she's abnormally bad in her concealment compared to VIII Edinburgh and X Minotaur, to the point it really sticks out and removes certain moves because it would be unsafe to do so or just not optimal.

Edinburgh & Minotaur can use stealth to do Stealth Torpedo attacks, Neptune, not really as her concealment sucks.  MAYBE if kiting.

Edinburgh & Minotaur, if one is a savvy player, can do a Radar Build (drop Smoke for Radar) and have a killer Stealth Radar window.  Basically if you were a DD and just spotted a Radar Edinburgh / Mino out of the blue, you're dead, you're way too deep in their Radar range.

Etc.

 

VIII Edinburgh has 9.19km surface detection with Stealth Build.  Radar is 10km range, torps are 9.9km, albeit she doesn't have many fish.

IX Neptune has 10.3km surface detection with Stealth Build.  Radar is 10km range, torps are 9.9km.

X Minotaur with Stealth Build is 9km.  Radar is 10km, torps are 9.9km.

 

Even outside the niche of Tech Tree Radar RNCL play, great concealment is a thing for several ships of this line (Leander, Edinburgh, Minotaur).  In High Tier it's real weird that WG went out of its way to make sure Nep's stealth doesn't follow the trend set by the ships immediately before and after her.  Great concealment is a fantastic luxury when your Cruiser is squishy, and the big bad Battleships are looking for something to smash.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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