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Llaredrum

Abuse Of The Testing Privilege

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Today I and a few other players got to witness that the extreme broken test ship Gouden Leeuw and Haarlem.  Three testers came into the servers with the EXACT same test ship.  Normally I would not care about this but this ship needs some tweeking bad. You could tell by game 1 that the “Airstrike” armament was over powered and completely broken.  So what do they do?  Well they continue to come back in, same clan, with the Haarlem and twice in the Gouden Leeuw in 3 out of my 5 games.  If you are a testing and see that ship has a pretty unfair advantage should you keep coming in public servers beating sh!t out of people with it?  Do you think that this is upholding (if any?) ethical standards set forth by War Gaming?  I was told by another tester that testers should not even be in divisions running all test ships??? Is this true?  One video on youtube showed me how broken that ship was... I would not have grabbed three other testers and taken into a public server to beat on other people.  I guess maybe the testers could not tell this ship had an unfair advantage??  Shocking…  Or they thought it was funny to beat on other players with test ship so broken that I watched it delete my friend in a Salem with two passes.  Either way perhaps your testers should be doing a better job and not using something you gave them against the people who play this game.  Or have a separate test server and leave us the hell out of it.   Either way... what happened in the servers today was pretty jacked up.  

 

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6 hours ago, Llaredrum said:

Today I and a few other players got to witness that the extreme broken test ship Gouden Leeuw and Haarlem.  Three  testers came into the servers with the EXACT same test ship.  Normally I would not care about this but this ship needs some tweeking bad. You could tell by game 1 that the “Airstrike” armament was over powered and completely broken.  So what do they do?  Well they continue to come back in, same clan, with the Haarlem and twice in the Gouden Leeuw in 3 out of my 5 games.  If you are a testing and see that ship has a pretty unfair advantage should you keep coming in public servers beating sh!t out of people with it?  Do you think that this is upholding (if any?) ethical standards set forth by War Gaming?  I was told by another tester that testers should not even be in divisions running all test ships??? Is this true?  One video on youtube showed me how broken that ship was... I would not have grabbed three other testers and taken into a public server to beat on other people.  I guess maybe testers could not tell this ship had an unfair advantage??  Shocking…  Or they thought it was funny to beat on other players with test ship so broken that I watched it delete my friend in a Salem with two passes.  Either way perhaps your testers should be doing a better job and not using something you gave them against the people who play this game.  Or have a separate test server and leave us the hell out of it.   Either way... what happened in the servers today was pretty jacked up.  

 

This has been questioned before and If memory serves me there was some double talk by the then MODS on the subject, which basically did little in fixing the issue, it was quite a while back and my memory is a bit fuzzy, they might have gave them a smack on the wrists or pointed a finger but that was about it I THINK.

I am certain if I got it wrong someone will  correct me.

  

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Whether WG or testers ever admit it, the reality is playing with broken ships is part of the appeal of being a tester.

The downside is sometimes you get a ship that’s broken in the “completely useless” sense.

Edited by leops_1984
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4 minutes ago, leops_1984 said:

Whether WG or testers ever admit it, the reality is playing with broken ships is part of the appeal of being a tester.

The downside is sometimes you get a ship that’s broken in the “completely useless” sense.

I mean thats fine, they need the data. I still dont think they should be allowed to bring a platoon with more than one test ship(of the same type) into a match.

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On the one hand, their job is testing. Isn't a three man Division with identical ships part of the game? Doesn't that give some feedback of how a worst case scenario would work? You were just unlucky in that regard. On the other hand, a three man Division on potentially broken ships which the playerbase knows almost nothing about their weaknesses/strengths is pretty bad.

1 minute ago, Princess_Daystar said:

I mean thats fine, they need the data. I still dont think they should be allowed to bring a platoon with more than one test ship(of the same type) into a match.

From what I understand they are allowed to since its part of testing, but it's not encouraged.

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9 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

On the one hand, their job is testing. Isn't a three man Division with identical ships part of the game? Doesn't that give some feedback of how a worst case scenario would work? You were just unlucky in that regard. On the other hand, a three man Division on potentially broken ships which the playerbase knows almost nothing about their weaknesses/strengths is pretty bad.

From what I understand they are allowed to since its part of testing, but it's not encouraged.

Um yes 3 man divisions are the current amount of players... but you and I do not get to use broken ships like that to go and r@pe the other players.  I don't think this is cool when they should know this this ship had a very unfair advantage... and there was 3 ships with that unfair advantage so imagine how that went down.  Go watch Flamu's video on YouTube.... then come back here and tell me how you think those games went :)   If you don't want to watch the video then imagine 2 FRD's and Midway in one game against a team with one Midway.  Yeah something like that... BTW If I had only seen this once I would have been like no big deal but I got to experience 3 times in 5 games with friends.  

Edited by Llaredrum
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19 minutes ago, leops_1984 said:

Whether WG or testers ever admit it, the reality is playing with broken ships is part of the appeal of being a tester.

The downside is sometimes you get a ship that’s broken in the “completely useless” sense.

No problem but people in the same clan should not be abusing it by running the same test ship in a 3 man division.   

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34 minutes ago, tm63au said:

This has been questioned before and If memory serves me there was some double talk by the then MODS on the subject, which basically did little in fixing the issue, it was quite a while back and my memory is a bit fuzzy, they might have gave them a smack on the wrists or pointed a finger but that was about it I THINK.

I am certain if I got it wrong someone will  correct me.

  

Oh this is the WG Forum you better believe someone will correct you... Don't be bring that hyperbole in here!  :)

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9 minutes ago, Llaredrum said:

Um yes 3 man divisions are the current amount of players... but you and I do not get to use broken ships like that to go and r@pe the other players.  I don't think this is cool when they should know this this ship had a very unfair advantage... and there was 3 ships with that unfair advantage so imagine how that went down.  Go watch Flamu's video on YouTube.... then come back here and tell me how you think those games went :)   If you don't want to watch the video then imagine 2 FRD's and Midway in one game against a team with one Midway.  Yeah something like that... BTW If I had only seen this once I would have been like no big deal but I got to experience 3 times in 5 games with friends.  

Don't worry, I have seen the vid and know what happens. If WG considers it ok to have these ships in their current form on live server there's nothing you can do really and to be honest it's offputting when you chill to play with friends to get demolished by a ship you barely know about driven by possibly good players.

Still, the logic remains that you suffer now so when that stuff is (hopefully) toned down the rest of the server won't have to.

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

Don't worry, I have seen the vid and know what happens. If WG considers it ok to have these ships in their current form on live server there's nothing you can do really and to be honest it's offputting when you chill to play with friends to get demolished by a ship you barely know about driven by possibly good players.

Still, the logic remains that you suffer now so when that stuff is (hopefully) toned down the rest of the server won't have to.

I should be paid to suffer like that if that is logic we are going with :)  

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16 minutes ago, Llaredrum said:

No problem but people in the same clan should not be abusing it by running the same test ship in a 3 man division.   

I strongly suspect we'll see the same edict to STs that happened with Kitakami, i.e. don't run three man divisions with this.

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4 minutes ago, leops_1984 said:

I strongly suspect we'll see the same edict to STs that happened with Kitakami, i.e. don't run three man divisions with this.

Yep. Or to be more precise, "Okay, now we've seen what it can do in a three-man unicum div; there's no need to keep proving the point."

They do need to see what happens, but not on an ongoing basis.

The real problem here IMHO is multiple members of the same unicum clans all having tester status. BANCV were also running a three-man Leeuw div, which I thought was hilariously hypocritical of them.

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The players operated within the rules set down by wargaming and can continue to do so until told otherwise. The whole purpose of giving select players test ships is to test them in a live environment.

If testers do not try out 3 man divisions of these ships then it will just be exploited by normal players upon live release.

Naming and shaming the clan on the general forums isn't the correct avenue, you should contact customer support and raise a ticket.

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I have seen in online gaming behaviors under the guise of testing.

In Beta in one of the early shooter games we had gained intimate knowledge of various maps that were to be released in retail to the public. And so when the game title was opened to the world in those servers, the Beta testers now under normal retail accounts were able to essentially nuke the clueless mobs who tried to play the game int he early days. I recall a incident where a certain square in a mini city needed to be held as a cornerstone to prevent other team from breaking through to victory. This was in the first week. I happened to be in a armored vehicle and was able to displace and move killing groups who were not familiar with the situation yet.

Eventually in due time everyone became very familiar with the game, maps, mechanics and so on and began to organize together. And so go into public servers and essentially wipe the other side clear out. when they joined, loaded in and spawned they were eliminated. Eventually server threw the game due to total victory as in opposing team being non existance.

It was only then that the people in position to patch the games began to make changes over time. When you have played online as long as I have in many different types of games with people, certain behaviors do not change at all. This case of three man divs in nuking enemy ships in a coordinated future dutch ships with airstrikes etc. There is damage done to the game product and title when nothing is done.

At some point when the battle situation within a game title becomes [edited], then some of the people will leave and play another game entirely. if something is no fun anymore they will absolutely do that as happened before in dying and dead games. I already have on steam a number of navy based games in the modern age similar to what Wows was for ww2 but would be more of a simulation than arcade shooters with the silly dutch airstrikes. That I think  would be my signal to essentially fail to game so much in Wows. However I do like the history and certain things about the game and will continue to play it but nothing like what was before.

That is up to the WG People. If they understand that the dutch situation is left unfixed and it goes live then thats the end of it. It wont bother them none. Unless the idea of both teams being nothing but dutch ships is something that becomes routine.

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18 minutes ago, EIGHTEEN_NAKED_COWBOYS said:

The players operated within the rules set down by wargaming and can continue to do so until told otherwise. The whole purpose of giving select players test ships is to test them in a live environment.

If testers do not try out 3 man divisions of these ships then it will just be exploited by normal players upon live release.

Naming and shaming the clan on the general forums isn't the correct avenue, you should contact customer support and raise a ticket.

Raise a ticket... nobody ever told me I could raise a ticket.  If their clan is doing something wrong by running 3 man divisions with broken test ships and jacking the game for the other players then they should not be doing it... and they know better.  Lets just let a silent ticket handle the situation... I am sorry I don't have that much faith in a ticket to do much of anything.  Fact of the matter is we all know what that was... that was some people exploiting their abilities as testers and players to use something they know damn well is gives them an unfair advantage.  How about the short and easy answer... don't do that dumb cr@p to fellow WG players.  Pretty simple... Funny part I didn't even have to play it too see how broken it was.  But they played it over and over in a 3 man team to wreck people.  Not cool... bottom line.  

 

Edited by Llaredrum
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51 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The real problem here IMHO is multiple members of the same unicum clans all having tester status. BANCV were also running a three-man Leeuw div, which I thought was hilariously hypocritical of them.

Just as likely that the clan in question is part of the Clan Supertest program, which means that all of their members have access to test ships.

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4 minutes ago, Llaredrum said:

Raise a ticket... nobody ever told me I could raise a ticket.  If their clan is doing something wrong by running 3 man divisions with broken test ships and jacking the game for the other players then they should not be doing it... and they know better.  Lets just let a silent ticket handle the situation... I am sorry I don't have that much faith in a ticket to do much of anything.  Fact of the matter is we all know what that was... that was some people exploiting their abilities as testers and players to use something they know damn well is gives them an unfair advantage.  How about the short and easy answer... don't do that dumb cr@p to fellow WG players.  Pretty simple... Funny part I didn't even have to play it too see how broken it was.  But they played it over and over in a 3 man team to wreck people.  Not cool... bottom line.  

 

what are they doing wrong? There are no rules from wargaming that say we cannot play in divisions with these boats.

 

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Since when is the sadistic, sociopathic segment of the gamer community a new thing? Like, 1995?

It isn't like WOWS is some pristine edifice of good sportsmanship and fair play.

Trolls gonna troll, griefers gonna grief. You see it every day.

 

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9 minutes ago, leops_1984 said:

Just as likely that the clan in question is part of the Clan Supertest program, which means that all of their members have access to test ships.

Players are individually accepted into ST, not clans. 

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3 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Players are individually accepted into ST, not clans. 

CST is a separate program from individual ST. While Wargaming is hush-hush about the entire thing, I'd note that the application process for STs over in EU which was just posted a few weeks ago explicitly refers to it.

 

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13 minutes ago, EIGHTEEN_NAKED_COWBOYS said:

what are they doing wrong? There are no rules from wargaming that say we cannot play in divisions with these boats.

 

If I was to go into a server with a test ship that was wrecking you and everyone in the game making unbearable to play what would you think?  If I continued to find you in a server and wrecked you with something that was unfair advantage it would get old fast.  I don't know if they did anything "wrong" I just know what the tester said to me and that was 3 man divisions with test ships is frowned upon.  Now the fact that these are top players makes even worse... so I don't think this is a good idea to continue to do this to players over and over.  Also if you want run these ships there could be an open test servers so they can play against people that sign up... just stay the hell out of random games with biased ships that ruin games.  I think that is fair don't you... oh your going to say they need to test ships in those scenarios... they can do that in another part of the game and set up the same maps everything. So yeah there it is...  

Edited by Llaredrum

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7 minutes ago, EIGHTEEN_NAKED_COWBOYS said:

what are they doing wrong? There are no rules from wargaming that say we cannot play in divisions with these boats.

 

No, there aren't. But you know damn well why people are complaining about it, and being disingenuous and acting all innocent isn't the best response.

You have a test instrument in your hands which has been shown under certain circumstances to be grossly overpowered. You have a moral obligation, if not a written one on paper, to show a bit of restraint and NOT continue to form all-one-ship three-man divs with this thing until the OP aspect has been reined in.

If you can't understand this concept, your clan will lose respect among the playerbase. You'll risk going down in WOWS history as a bunch of sociopathic hooligans who allowed their (justifiably) inflated self-opinion to poison their moral compasses.

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1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

No, there aren't. But you know damn well why people are complaining about it, and being disingenuous and acting all innocent isn't the best response.

You have a test instrument in your hands which has been shown under certain circumstances to be grossly overpowered. You have a moral obligation, if not a written one on paper, to show a bit of restraint and NOT continue to form all-one-ship three-man divs with this thing until the OP aspect has been reined in.

If you can't understand this concept, your clan will lose respect among the playerbase. You'll risk going down in WOWS history as a bunch of sociopathic hooligans who allowed their (justifiably) inflated self-opinion to poison their moral compasses.

That is savagely written and i love it.

Very true also.

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1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

No, there aren't. But you know damn well why people are complaining about it, and being disingenuous and acting all innocent isn't the best response.

You have a test instrument in your hands which has been shown under certain circumstances to be grossly overpowered. You have a moral obligation, if not a written one on paper, to show a bit of restraint and NOT continue to form all-one-ship three-man divs with this thing until the OP aspect has been reined in.

If you can't understand this concept, your clan will lose respect among the playerbase. You'll risk going down in WOWS history as a bunch of sociopathic hooligans who allowed their (justifiably) inflated self-opinion to poison their moral compasses.

You get it man... thank God someone on here understand what I am saying.  Thank you

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3 minutes ago, Llaredrum said:

Also if you want run these ships there could be an open test servers so they can play against people that sign up... just stay the hell out of random games with biased ships that ruin games.  I think that is fair don't you... oh your going to say they need to test ships in those scenarios... they can do that in another part of the game and set up the same maps everything.

No, they can't. Eventually everything needs to come out into the open server and be tested in the live environment against the general playerbase. Testing exclusively against specialists, developers, unicums and interested parties presents a skewed picture, which is probably how this monster got out into live testing the way it is. 

But you're right that three-man unicum brutality divs of a ship whose initial live testing has shown it to be grossly OP are inappropriate, and the people doing it should know better.

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