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Yesman1337

Ise Questions?

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This is a ship I have been excited for as it could open the floodgates for a bunch of other unique ships such as the Flugdeckkreuzers and the Gotland maybe even the I-400 once submarines join the fight. I am curious though as in testing it seemed to have access to all 3 types of aircraft but in the patch notes it seems only torpedo bombers are available. Did I misread it or are the other aircraft types not going to be made available. 

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7 minutes ago, Yesman1337 said:

This is a ship I have been excited for as it could open the floodgates for a bunch of other unique ships such as the Flugdeckkreuzers and the Gotland maybe even the I-400 once submarines join the fight. I am curious though as in testing it seemed to have access to all 3 types of aircraft but in the patch notes it seems only torpedo bombers are available. Did I misread it or are the other aircraft types not going to be made available. 

 Iirc they tested different iterations with various aircraft types but appear to have settled on TB.

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There were/are three test versions of Ise, each with a different type of aircraft. All three versions were tested, it seems WG decided to go with the torp bombers.

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Dive bombers probably got wiped too easily because sometimes you approach and a ship snaps a turn hard to activate their AA side. Besides, you can probably heal the TBs as they approach a ship. DBs you couldn't unless WG decided to add global heals to DBs. 

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All I know is when I played against one it seems to have inhereted the cv resistance to taking damage.

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"Itoo", am excited for this ship for a number of reasons.... but I suppose the first among them would be that, for whatever reason, I've been fascinated with the whole idea of Battlecarriers since a young age, when my interest in the ship class first came about when I played PTO, Pacific Theater of Operations, back on Super Nintendo in highschool back in the 1990s.  I discussed, in a few threads, the actual merits and pros/cons of the ship class, should they actually have been built, historically and the reasons that the naval powers might have historically been interested in the class; the hybrid "Battlecarrier". 

Like all shipclasses, there could be an emphasis on different design elements, with differing priorities, dictating different foci even within the hybrid class.  For example, the Japanese, with their limited budget and ship building capacity, were using the Kongo class as frontline battleship units; and had the classic "Decisive Battle" occured, they would very likely have put their Kongo class Battlecrusiers, which they uparmored somewhat, but not significantly enough to stand toe to toe with the latest 16 inch Battleships, into the Battleship line within the order of battle; they would have had to do this out of sheer necessity, despite what doctrine might say about Battlecrusiers, because, like at Jutland, they carried guns of sufficient calibur to fire at range, and damage/destroy the Battleships/Battlecrusiers that a fullblown Fleet on Fleet Battle which would have occured had they fought the British in a 1v1 war, with the 5 v 3 capital ship difference imposed, and not yet overcome, by the Washington/London Naval treaties. 

Thusly, creating a modified hybrid design, with completely front loaded firepower (or even located on the Stern of the ship instead, if the decision was made to, instead, have the turrets located there so that the Battlecarrier would be capable of covering it's own retreat should it unexpectedly run into a crusier/DD force seperate from the main BB fleet) with Battleship/Battlecrusier guns would allow it, in conjuction with it's own escort to face against any force of fast crusiers/DDs that could be hunting for carrier forces; nothing less then battlecrusiers would then be capable of both catching and outgunning them.  In other words; by increasing ship size and displacement by ~1/3 to 1/4th, if even that, you would a ship that would allow for it's fast battleship/battlecrusier escort to be detached into the main battleship line.

For those with an interest in the shiptype, like me; the people over at World of Warships, threw in a promising little tidbit by implication.... "Vi Ise: the first hybrid in World of Warships".... the implication being that calling it the first means that there are other hybrid ships designs that they are considering.

 

 

BattlecarrierJB.png

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1 hour ago, BlkbrryTheGreat said:

For those with an interest in the shiptype, like me; the people over at World of Warships, threw in a promising little tidbit by implication.... "Vi Ise: the first hybrid in World of Warships".... the implication being that calling it the first means that there are other hybrid ships designs that they are considering.

Tone was tested at tier VIII at the same time as Ise, and I would not be surprised if we eventually see Ooyodo at tier VI, potentially with ASW aircraft of some type. I would also expect to eventually have one of the I-400 series subs, along with the associated ARP tie-in.

I do find it interesting the WG is introducing hybrid ships after removing the ability of BBs and cruisers to take aircraft-related skills, though.

Edited by Nevermore135

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10 hours ago, Yesman1337 said:

This is a ship I have been excited for as it could open the floodgates for a bunch of other unique ships such as the Flugdeckkreuzers and the Gotland maybe even the I-400 once submarines join the fight. I am curious though as in testing it seemed to have access to all 3 types of aircraft but in the patch notes it seems only torpedo bombers are available. Did I misread it or are the other aircraft types not going to be made available. 

I am almost 100% sure the TBs-only was for game balance. When they started testing the three versions I was sure from he beginning that the TBs would be the ones they would use. If they only have one squadron to use, TBs are the least game-breaking because they most effective against BBs and least effective against DDs. I won't say that there is zero chance that rocket or DB versions will appear, but I highly doubt it for those reasons. 

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3 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

TBs are the least game-breaking because they most effective against BBs and least effective against DDs.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Tone being released in an AP dive bomber format. And as for torpedo bombers being least effective against DD, I'm not too sure about that. @Lightninger got very good at torping the bot destroyers in the Newport operation, and those things are supposed to have superior torpedobeat skills compared to humans. 

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1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Tone being released in an AP dive bomber format. And as for torpedo bombers being least effective against DD, I'm not too sure about that. @Lightninger got very good at torping the bot destroyers in the Newport operation, and those things are supposed to have superior torpedobeat skills compared to humans. 

I can torpedo them as well. It's not that it can't be done, it's that TBs are the hardest to use against DDs, especially if the torps are slow and they are the easiest plane type for DDs (and some cruisers) to manage around. Even the KM line CV torpedoes which are intended for use against DDs aren't that easy to use on DDs. Certainly not when compared to rockets or HE DBs. 

I agree though, after torpedoes AP DBs are the next most likely to appear because they are fairly limited in use. They are really only good against cruisers and some BBs (in that order) depending on penetration and my guess is they won't have super high penetration. That was my fallback guess for Ise and Tone's planes after the TBs. It wouldn't shock me to see them on Tone, especially since she already has torpedoes of her own. It would add a more useful capability to Tone, while not making DD lives more difficult beyond basic spotting. 

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4 hours ago, BlkbrryTheGreat said:

"Itoo", am excited for this ship for a number of reasons.... but I suppose the first among them would be that, for whatever reason, I've been fascinated with the whole idea of Battlecarriers since a young age, when my interest in the ship class first came about when I played PTO, Pacific Theater of Operations, back on Super Nintendo in highschool back in the 1990s.  I discussed, in a few threads, the actual merits and pros/cons of the ship class, should they actually have been built, historically and the reasons that the naval powers might have historically been interested in the class; the hybrid "Battlecarrier". 

Like all shipclasses, there could be an emphasis on different design elements, with differing priorities, dictating different foci even within the hybrid class.  For example, the Japanese, with their limited budget and ship building capacity, were using the Kongo class as frontline battleship units; and had the classic "Decisive Battle" occured, they would very likely have put their Kongo class Battlecrusiers, which they uparmored somewhat, but not significantly enough to stand toe to toe with the latest 16 inch Battleships, into the Battleship line within the order of battle; they would have had to do this out of sheer necessity, despite what doctrine might say about Battlecrusiers, because, like at Jutland, they carried guns of sufficient calibur to fire at range, and damage/destroy the Battleships/Battlecrusiers that a fullblown Fleet on Fleet Battle which would have occured had they fought the British in a 1v1 war, with the 5 v 3 capital ship difference imposed, and not yet overcome, by the Washington/London Naval treaties. 

Thusly, creating a modified hybrid design, with completely front loaded firepower (or even located on the Stern of the ship instead, if the decision was made to, instead, have the turrets located there so that the Battlecarrier would be capable of covering it's own retreat should it unexpectedly run into a crusier/DD force seperate from the main BB fleet) with Battleship/Battlecrusier guns would allow it, in conjuction with it's own escort to face against any force of fast crusiers/DDs that could be hunting for carrier forces; nothing less then battlecrusiers would then be capable of both catching and outgunning them.  In other words; by increasing ship size and displacement by ~1/3 to 1/4th, if even that, you would a ship that would allow for it's fast battleship/battlecrusier escort to be detached into the main battleship line.

For those with an interest in the shiptype, like me; the people over at World of Warships, threw in a promising little tidbit by implication.... "Vi Ise: the first hybrid in World of Warships".... the implication being that calling it the first means that there are other hybrid ships designs that they are considering.

 

 

BattlecarrierJB.png

Firstly, nice to see a fellow league player around these waters secondly, I too have always been interested in well really all the unique ships. The ones with strange features and whatnot and hybrid ships are truly some of the most interesting. With ideas being developed by almost all sides of the war some based of cruisers some on battleships. The U.S.A. had an interesting design for one based of the Brooklyn class cruisers which nearly made through. 

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Second question, what resource is it available it for it can't only be Doubloons right?

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10 hours ago, Yesman1337 said:

Second question, what resource is it available it for it can't only be Doubloons right?

I don't see it out yet. It's only a T6 though so I would assume it will be available for $$ as well as doubloons. 

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17 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:
10 hours ago, Yesman1337 said:

Second question, what resource is it available it for it can't only be Doubloons right?

I don't see it out yet. It's only a T6 though so I would assume it will be available for $$ as well as doubloons.

I agree, it will most like be in the shop for cash.  June 4th release.

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2 hours ago, Slimeball91 said:

I agree, it will most like be in the shop for cash.  June 4th release.

It said it was going to be in the armory so I assumed that meant for coal or something like that but in the announcement it only says Doubloons in Armory which is confusing wording to me.

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I don't see Ise doing well personally. It looks like they stripped off secondaries in addition to two turrets, that's a decent loss of firepower and defense. If a ship gets behind you, it's pretty much just free damage.

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30 minutes ago, 6Xero9 said:

I don't see Ise doing well personally. It looks like they stripped off secondaries in addition to two turrets, that's a decent loss of firepower and defense. If a ship gets behind you, it's pretty much just free damage.

Ise isn't a BB that wants to get close to the action. That means most enemies won't be getting behind it unless they've already gotten past the rest of the team, most likely, or the ship is trying to disengage.

 

The best use I see for this ship is as long range support and spotting when needed, or using the plane to attack an enemy that is staying out of main gun LOS. Without CV skills, the planes are going to be fragile after all, and suddenly leaving your BB on autopilot close to an enemy will probably end poorly.

 

All in all it's just a means to either support your CV or do some recon in force. It looks like it won't be good at either BB or CV work on its own.

Edited by Jakob_Knight

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2 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

All in all it's just a means to either support your CV or do some recon in force. It looks like it won't be good at either BB or CV work on its own.

Honestly though, I'm going to bet a lot of players will hate the Ise because it gets planes for scouting while the enemy team might not.

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Just now, 6Xero9 said:

Honestly though, I'm going to bet a lot of players will hate the Ise because it gets planes for scouting while the enemy team might not.

I think they will hate it because it will stay in the back like a CV and be even more adverse to being near the battle than other BBs.

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1 minute ago, Jakob_Knight said:

I think they will hate it because it will stay in the back like a CV and be even more adverse to being near the battle than other BBs.

I mean, it'll be able to spot the enemy like a CV, but again, since it's a BB, the other team might not have an Ise. So one team will be heavily advantaged in spotting.

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6 hours ago, 6Xero9 said:

I don't see Ise doing well personally. It looks like they stripped off secondaries in addition to two turrets, that's a decent loss of firepower and defense. If a ship gets behind you, it's pretty much just free damage.

I agree it looks like it picks up some versatility with the planes but pays for it with dps and survivability. That being said it is a unique capability that hasn't existed in the game before and it was a real ship so I will absolutely get it. :)

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1 minute ago, Tzarevitch said:

I agree it looks like it picks up some versatility with the planes but pays for it with dps and survivability. That being said it is a unique capability that hasn't existed in the game before and it was a real ship so I will absolutely get it. :)

I don't see it staying long in shop, so you better jump on it. Because it's going to create a lot of imbalance. I'm sure the DD crowd will be the hardest hit because of this.

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10 hours ago, Yesman1337 said:

It said it was going to be in the armory so I assumed that meant for coal or something like that but in the announcement it only says Doubloons in Armory which is confusing wording to me.

WG no longer places ships purchasable for doubloons in the tech tree - that functionality has moved to the Armory over the last year+ or so. As it stands, just about every ship that is available in the premium shop for cash is simultaneously available in the Armory for doubloons, and vice versa.

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