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AdmNimitz41

To the dufus in charge of the CNB.

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CNB = the weekly Clan Naval Battles. Last week the objective was Ribbons where everything counts. Especially secondary's which is a lot of fun & promotes brawling. 
We also like it when the objective is Damage, because that's fair - we get what we've earned. 

But after only 1 week of Ribbons, we're going back th BXP which everyone hates because a loss for any reason cuts what we've earned about in half. Especially when MM puts bots on our team in a Random battle. How is that fair?

Looking back through my clans records, I see that 44% have been for BXP. 35% were for Damage, & 21% were for Ribbons. 
Why?
Do you get the "NOT FUN" part? If we stop playing, we stop paying, & how is that in the best interests of WoW?

So if you're the guy in charge, please explain the "thinking" behind your choices for the CNB.
 

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Damage by far is the most fun. And a favorite.

BXP is just a sour reminder of a grindy [edited] time right now.

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26 minutes ago, AdmNimitz41 said:

But after only 1 week of Ribbons, we're going back th BXP which everyone hates because a loss for any reason cuts what we've earned about in half.

Winning gives you a 50% bonus, not 100%.

26 minutes ago, AdmNimitz41 said:

We also like it when the objective is Damage, because that's fair - we get what we've earned.

Devil's advocate, wouldn't this be biased in favor of ships that tend to do more damage?  What if you play DDs that tend to average much less damage than BBs or CVs.  If I were to check your stats would I find a BB main?  I can't see a more fair approach than BXP.

Never mind, I misunderstood how the naval work.  Sorry.

Edited by Slimeball91
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5 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

Winning gives you a 50% bonus, not 100%.

Devil's advocate, wouldn't this be biased in favor of ships that tend to do more damage?  What if you play DDs that tend to average much less damage than BBs or CVs.  If I were to check your stats would I find a BB main?  I can't see a more fair approach than BXP.

It's already broken down by class and nationality, so DKM DDs are competing with DKM DDs for their stars, that's already accounted for. 

 

I'd go for BXP if it was BXP not accounting for win/loss, because invariably, the first tier is easy enough, but the second and up is completely dependent on your team not potatoing out. 

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2 minutes ago, Premeditated_Marder said:

It's already broken down by class and nationality, so DKM DDs are competing with DKM DDs for their stars, that's already accounted for. 

 

I'd go for BXP if it was BXP not accounting for win/loss, because invariably, the first tier is easy enough, but the second and up is completely dependent on your team not potatoing out. 

Okay, I didn't know how it works.  I stand corrected.

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It usually goes 2-3 weeks each of each type. bxp/signals/damage.

If they switched back to bxp after just one week of signals, then yeah, that’s some serious ‘wth?!? WG?’

Maybe some bean counter thinks they need to because of the format change.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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16 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

It usually goes 2-3 weeks each of each type. bxp/signals/damage.

If they switched back to bxp after just one week of signals, then yeah, that’s some serious ‘wth?!? WG?’

Maybe some bean counter thinks they need to because of the format change.

I wish I knew! I started this thread to get His/Her/Its attention, & try to keep some fun in the game. Instead they spend their time on "Bug" Hunt, & now Beasts, not to mention the pink bots that we've all seen!   ; D

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I'm STILL waiting to see why WoW loves BXP so much. We had one week of Damage, & then back to [edited] XP. 

If we must have BXP, then please give us an equal amount of Damage & Ribbons weeks. Then I'd only hate CNB one-third as much.  ; )

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Do you need to succeed at everything?  Is it only fun to be able to brag on the forums “went 10 out of 10 in Naval Battles this weekend”?  The opposing clan members also must win their battle to get enough BXP to get the star (past level one) so you are not disadvantaged unless you only play co-op.

That being said, I do actually agree that the damage and ribbons weeks are better than the BXP weeks.

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4 minutes ago, Mono_De_Mantequilla said:

Do you need to succeed at everything?  Is it only fun to be able to brag on the forums “went 10 out of 10 in Naval Battles this weekend”?  The opposing clan members also must win their battle to get enough BXP to get the star (past level one) so you are not disadvantaged unless you only play co-op.

That being said, I do actually agree that the damage and ribbons weeks are better than the BXP weeks.

I think you've missed the point? Except for the masochists among us, we play the game for fun! Not to have some bot that MM inflicted on our team in a Random match to cheat us out of what we would otherwise have earned. But MM is another sore point that I won't go into now. 

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On 5/17/2021 at 9:00 PM, Estimated_Prophet said:

It usually goes 2-3 weeks each of each type. bxp/signals/damage.

If they switched back to bxp after just one week of signals, then yeah, that’s some serious ‘wth?!? WG?’

Maybe some bean counter thinks they need to because of the format change.

They've been doing this quite regularly, 1 week of damage then 3 weeks BXP, 1 week of Ribbons then 3 weeks of BXP.  If it was a weekly rotation then I wouldn't mind 1 in 3 being BXP but the way it's going it's BXP 3 out of 4. Obviously run by the Bah Humbug Anti-Fun Department. No reason for this.

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22 minutes ago, Efros said:

No reason for this.

Yes there is. Can't have the PVE focused clans beating PVP clans. The horror. :Smile_glasses:

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All they're doing is diminishing the participation in those weeks that they run BXP, and that's across all clans be it PVE or PVP ones. One day they will eventually understand this game and the people that play it... but I fear by then it will be too late.

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23 minutes ago, Efros said:

They've been doing this quite regularly, 1 week of damage then 3 weeks BXP, 1 week of Ribbons then 3 weeks of BXP.  If it was a weekly rotation then I wouldn't mind 1 in 3 being BXP but the way it's going it's BXP 3 out of 4. Obviously run by the Bah Humbug Anti-Fun Department. No reason for this.

 

Just now, AdmiralThunder said:

Yes there is. Can't have the PVE focused clans beating PVP clans. The horror. :Smile_glasses:

I don't think WG gives a rat's aft who beats who, but when they said they are focusing on PVP, they meant it.  They want to give as many incentives to playing PVP as they can.  Won't work for me, but I don't think that is going to slow them down any.

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I remind you of this point in my original post, "Do you get the "NOT FUN" part? If we stop playing, we stop paying, & how is that in the best interests of WoW?"

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On 5/17/2021 at 6:37 PM, AdmNimitz41 said:

CNB = the weekly Clan Naval Battles. Last week the objective was Ribbons where everything counts. Especially secondary's which is a lot of fun & promotes brawling. 
We also like it when the objective is Damage, because that's fair - we get what we've earned. 

But after only 1 week of Ribbons, we're going back th BXP which everyone hates because a loss for any reason cuts what we've earned about in half. Especially when MM puts bots on our team in a Random battle. How is that fair?

Looking back through my clans records, I see that 44% have been for BXP. 35% were for Damage, & 21% were for Ribbons. 
Why?
Do you get the "NOT FUN" part? If we stop playing, we stop paying, & how is that in the best interests of WoW?

So if you're the guy in charge, please explain the "thinking" behind your choices for the CNB.
 

Are you sure they are Doofuses or more accurately Hoofties?    I suspect more Hoofty that Doofus....  But, +1 for using terms I grew up with.

And no, I doubt anyone can explain this bizarre and really odd behavior?  :Smile_facepalm:

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On 5/17/2021 at 7:37 PM, AdmNimitz41 said:

 

But after only 1 week of Ribbons, we're going back th BXP which everyone hates because a loss for any reason cuts what we've earned about in half.

That's incorrect. You get what you've earned, and if you win, you earn a 50% bonus. There is no penalty for losing.

On 5/17/2021 at 7:37 PM, AdmNimitz41 said:

Especially when MM puts bots on our team in a Random battle. How is that fair?.
 

It's fair because the other clan has to deal with exactly the same conditions. And beating the other clan is the entire and only reason for Naval Battles in the first place.

It's not like you get anything besides points for passing a bar, and the only purpose of those points is to compare with the other clan.

 

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1 hour ago, Efros said:

They've been doing this quite regularly, 1 week of damage then 3 weeks BXP, 1 week of Ribbons then 3 weeks of BXP.  If it was a weekly rotation then I wouldn't mind 1 in 3 being BXP but the way it's going it's BXP 3 out of 4. Obviously run by the Bah Humbug Anti-Fun Department. No reason for this.

Sure there is.

Glorious spreadsheet, Komrade. Glorious spreadsheet has all answers and will guide.

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1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Yes there is. Can't have the PVE focused clans beating PVP clans. The horror. :Smile_glasses:

lol

Because a PvP clan has potentially more chances to clear levels in NB; if they lose to a PvE clan they deserve to.

1 hour ago, DrHolmes52 said:

I don't think WG gives a rat's aft who beats who, but when they said they are focusing on PVP, they meant it.  They want to give as many incentives to playing PVP as they can.  Won't work for me, but I don't think that is going to slow them down any.

As far as I personally am concerned, WG are fools if they have such an attitude.

I said in many threads; “If the mode WG thinks should be the most popular, isn’t; then perhaps they should take a hard look at exactly WHY.”

But of course; they never will.

Mildly related; That a PvE mode similar to what exists in WoWs doesn’t exist in Tanks, is effectively why I quit playing that game.

I’m not wired the right way to be in any way more than accidentally effective in Tanks. Therefore, since it’s a PvP only game, there’s no point to my even doing so.

Such fun; getting my tushy handed to me, (usually by instadeath donated by someone I never even see,) in about 9/10 games.

If there was a PvE option to Tanks; EVEN IF ITS RETURN WAS POOR COMPARED TO THAT OF PvP; I would probably still play.

After all, Tanks is a neat game, in that it’s cool to drive around in historical tanks blasting things.

But, whatever; apparently I’m just some history wonk dullard who doesn’t understand the appeal of getting the shiny of the week and running around with it in a PvP free for all.

Their loss.

1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

That's incorrect. You get what you've earned, and if you win, you earn a 50% bonus. There is no penalty for losing.

It's fair because the other clan has to deal with exactly the same conditions. And beating the other clan is the entire and only reason for Naval Battles in the first place.

It's not like you get anything besides points for passing a bar, and the only purpose of those points is to compare with the other clan.

Exactly that last. In the end it’s just a points comparison.

One clan can’t even block the other by doing say; the 300bxp block of US BBs first.

If anything; my somewhat selfish complaint about NB has nothing to do with what’s being used that week as the qualifier, and to clear blocks. No; my complaint is that you need at least two players to clear the qualifier.

I’m in a terribly innactive clan, so we miss out on NB sometimes because not enough members participate in the qualifier.

Oh well; that I can at least understand. WG wants clans to be groups; big or small; not just mobs of individuals.

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2 hours ago, AdmNimitz41 said:

I remind you of this point in my original post, "Do you get the "NOT FUN" part? If we stop playing, we stop paying, & how is that in the best interests of WoW?"

I just don't get the problem. You play matches, you get points for reaching bars. You are matched against another clan, who has to do exactly the same thing.

Why does it matter whether the requirements are damage, BXP,  or ribbons?

Do you actually play in different ways to get different things? How so? How do you play differently to try and get damage vs. BXP or ribbons?

The only difference that I can see is that the BXP heavily rewards winning the match. Is that the issue you have?

I can see where a PvE clan could have issues with BXP, but why wouldn't they have issues with all the requirements? I get that PvE awards less XP, but games are over quicker too, so they are also at a disadvantage in ribbons and damage.

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29 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

 

I can see where a PvE clan could have issues with BXP, but why wouldn't they have issues with all the requirements? I get that PvE awards less XP, but games are over quicker too, so they are also at a disadvantage in ribbons and damage.

While they are shorter, someone always gets the damage, and 9v9 has proportionally the same damage as a 14v14 (minus of a 4-5 DD game, plus on a 4-5 BB game).

And with ribbons, there is always something to shoot at in coop.  The bots aren't known for going dark.

 

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1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

I just don't get the problem. You play matches, you get points for reaching bars. You are matched against another clan, who has to do exactly the same thing.

Why does it matter whether the requirements are damage, BXP,  or ribbons?

Do you actually play in different ways to get different things? How so? How do you play differently to try and get damage vs. BXP or ribbons?

The only difference that I can see is that the BXP heavily rewards winning the match. Is that the issue you have?

I can see where a PvE clan could have issues with BXP, but why wouldn't they have issues with all the requirements? I get that PvE awards less XP, but games are over quicker too, so they are also at a disadvantage in ribbons and damage.

Base xp weekends I get to participate Friday only usually,damage/ ribbon weekends I get to use my extra attempts Saturday and Sunday.

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This is one of my highest beefs with these "clan v clan" type games/battles.  I can deal with CB's that pit teams against each other.... better clans end up with better results.  

I also have no issue with the damage or ribbon versions of Naval Battles.   This boils down to the individual players ability to score hits/damage... no matter how bad your team is (although if they cause a quick game to happen, it can effect it a little) 

BXP, however, there are just too many random factors that play in.  I can be #1 on my team, but because we lose 2 of 3 caps and my team potatoes in...  now my good game doesn't mean squat due to the loss.  Especially as the weekend drags on and you're into the higher XP bands to score points.   

The only solace I take is that the opposing team has the same chance of crappy teams or bad games as we do... as in it's all randomized.  But that's my beef... when it's a "competition", there shouldn't be random factors thrown into the mix like poor team make up.   

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3 hours ago, Skpstr said:

I can see where a PvE clan could have issues with BXP, but why wouldn't they have issues with all the requirements? I get that PvE awards less XP, but games are over quicker too, so they are also at a disadvantage in ribbons and damage.

Well, my clan is a PVE centered clan as you know. When the battles are ribbons and damage we fair very well. When it is BXP based we get crushed and can't even compete. I think we have won maybe 2-3 times when it has been BXP based. Generally it is so far from competitive for us when it is BXP based it is laughable. :fish_boom: 

When it is BXP based it pretty much means once all the 1st stars are done we are done. Way back when it was like 350/500/750/900 for BXP we did better and could get some of those 2nd and even a rare 3rd level star. We had a chance, albeit a very small one then. Now that it jumps from 200/300 all the way to 900-1000+ we are one and done. 

This means we lose pretty much every BXP week and that means we lose out on the extra oil for the win (like 2000 or something for winning). Another thing is it means fewer members can participate as we run out of doable stars fast. So setting BXP as the task not only puts us behind and in a 99% guranteed loss situation it means most of our members don't even get to participate. Whomever logs in the quickest once it starts uses up most of the stars and the members who can't login until later have nothing left to try for when it is BXP.

When it is ribbons or damage however more members can participate as we can do many star levels in Co-op and have a chance to and regularly win. Just look at this week vs last as a perfect example...

This week (BXP) we are getting walked on and are down 34/64 to our competition. Every single ship is sitting on the 900 BXP star (2nd) waiting for someone to do it but for 2 and it is unlikely more than 1 or 2 of those will get moved higher. Someone did RU and BRN DD's this week beyond the initial 300 which is a surprise actually and very rare for us. The rest though are all at 900 so that means only the 300 was done. Our opponent however has every ship to 900 too but most are well over. There is also the members participating to look at. Our clan has just 4 members who have been able to earn a star, and 1 who tried and came up short, out of 49 members. I have 17 of our 34 as well as I was 1st to login, am the only one who does CV's, and thus I got a jump start. I have 3 more attempt's left (I usually earn extras) but nothing to use them on as I do not PVP.  So another loss, we got crushed, most of our members have nothing to try for, and it was a 99% given outcome.

Last week (damage) we won 119/71. We got stars as high as 145,000. We had 16 different members earn at least 1 star and had many try but come up short. We had a chance to earn more than 1 star p/ ship/nation type and lots of members were able to take part. Totally different week vs this week (and any other BXP week where the 2nd star starts at 900-1000+)

So I think this shows that BXP is a killer not only to chances for PVE centered clans but it also knocks participation way down as a result. The above results are the norm as well and not the exception. I am not saying never do BXP but A) - not so often and B) go back to smaller jumps in level. Shouldn't the goal here be to ensure that the clans battling it out have an equal chance and shouldn't it also be to encourage vs discourage participation?

Naval Battles is not individual player vs player combat. It is clan vs clan results going head to head. It should not be stacked against PVE clans as it is now. I know WG loves PVP and doesn't like PVE but come on at least TRY and be fair about it in this case. 

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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Base XP would be tolerable if the levels were; 200, 400, 600, 800, 1000 then it could jump to say 1350, 1700, etc. However when it goes from 200 straight to 900, it means you probably need to win or have a great game in a losing team to get past the second level.

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