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Are auctions the most devious thing WG has devised?

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Was thinking about the auctions today and had a reverse epiphany. 

You are required to have the resources in your inventory to make a bid. WG is preying hugely on whales to go and purchase more of those rewards and perhaps continually topping up their inventories as the bids go up and they absolutely have no assurance of getting what they want, but the money will still be flowing to WG regardless of whether the whale gets what they bid on. 

Yeah, whales still have those resources, etc and make their own decisions. But this seems very predatory in my books. I'd feel better about this with astronomical but fixed prices. 

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Not with the Puerto Rico dockyard having existed.

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7 minutes ago, Devastating_Fieldtrip said:

Was thinking about the auctions today and had a reverse epiphany. 

You are required to have the resources in your inventory to make a bid. WG is preying hugely on whales to go and purchase more of those rewards and perhaps continually topping up their inventories as the bids go up and they absolutely have no assurance of getting what they want, but the money will still be flowing to WG regardless of whether the whale gets what they bid on. 

Yeah, whales still have those resources, etc and make their own decisions. But this seems very predatory in my books. I'd feel better about this with astronomical but fixed prices. 

As I understand it, if your bid is not a winning bid, you get your bid back.  So they do in fact have assurance that they are going to get either what they paid for, or their bid back in full.

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Just now, Burnsy said:

As I understand it, if your bid is not a winning bid, you get your bid back.  So they do in fact have assurance that they are going to get either what they paid for, or their bid back in full.

That's how I understood it as well. It sounds diff from OP though.

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6 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

Explain this better. I am confused.

If you want to bid 9000 doubloons on a captain, you need to have 9000 doubloons to bid with, you cannot buy them after the fact. 

So let's say someone really wants that captain and the bids are at 12000 doubloons, so he buys enough doubloons to bid 15000 doubloons. Before the end of the auction the bid is now 20000 doubloons, so he tops up again. He misses out on the crazy last minute action and loses the auction. He has bought the doubloons needed to make his 20k bid hoping to get the captain and doesn't get it leaving him with his pile of doubloons that he otherwise might not have bought, meanwhile WG has all his money from the doubloon purchases and and however many other whales that got caught in the same trap. 

Very much a sunk cost fallacy situation here. 

Edited by Devastating_Fieldtrip
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2 minutes ago, Devastating_Fieldtrip said:

If you want to bid 9000 doubloons on a captain, you need to have 9000 doubloons to bid with, you cannot buy them after the fact. 

So let's say someone really wants that captain and the bids are at 12000 doubloons, so he buys enough doubloons to bid 15000 doubloons. Before the end of the auction the bid is now 20000 doubloons, so he tops up again. He misses out on the crazy last minute action and loses the auction. He has bought the doubloons needed to make his 20k bid hoping to get the captain and doesn't get it, meanwhile WG has all his money from the doubloon purchases and however many other whales that got caught in the same trap. 

Very much a sunk cost fallacy situation here. 

Oh I see. Perhaps. 

edit: I think it's nuts someone would do that, but yah I got you ducky.

 

Edited by Rollingonit
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4 minutes ago, Devastating_Fieldtrip said:

If you want to bid 9000 doubloons on a captain, you need to have 9000 doubloons to bid with, you cannot buy them after the fact. 

So let's say someone really wants that captain and the bids are at 12000 doubloons, so he buys enough doubloons to bid 15000 doubloons. Before the end of the auction the bid is now 20000 doubloons, so he tops up again. He misses out on the crazy last minute action and loses the auction. He has bought the doubloons needed to make his 20k bid hoping to get the captain and doesn't get it, meanwhile WG has all his money from the doubloon purchases and however many other whales that got caught in the same trap. 

Very much a sunk cost fallacy situation here. 

Oh I see what you are saying now.  Yeah, I wouldn't advise purchasing store credit unless you are super sure you are going to use it later on something.
 

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2 minutes ago, Devastating_Fieldtrip said:

If you want to bid 9000 doubloons on a captain, you need to have 9000 doubloons to bid with, you cannot buy them after the fact. 

So let's say someone really wants that captain and the bids are at 12000 doubloons, so he buys enough doubloons to bid 15000 doubloons. Before the end of the auction the bid is now 20000 doubloons, so he tops up again. He misses out on the crazy last minute action and loses the auction. He has bought the doubloons needed to make his 20k bid hoping to get the captain and doesn't get it leaving him with his pile of doubloons that he otherwise might not have bought, meanwhile WG has all his money from the doubloon purchases and and however many other whales that got caught in the same trap. 

Very much a sunk cost fallacy situation here. 

At that point, the sunk cost isn't a fallacy.

I'd still rate the PR dockyard worse, mostly because it cast a larger net.

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1 minute ago, DrHolmes52 said:

At that point, the sunk cost isn't a fallacy.

I'd still rate the PR dockyard worse, mostly because it cast a larger net.

Yeah, but this feels like a short squeeze with no ceiling while it's happening 

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1 minute ago, Devastating_Fieldtrip said:

Yeah, but this feels like a short squeeze with no ceiling while it's happening 

Kind of like the last release of Kamikaze sisters in Christmas crates?

I mean, if you spend enough, you would have eventually gotten one, so there was a ceiling.

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8 minutes ago, Devastating_Fieldtrip said:

Yeah, but this feels like a short squeeze with no ceiling while it's happening 

For what it's worth, WG didn't invent or devise stuff like this.

There are other games that predate it (but are still live and in practice), where sales of items are sporadically offered.  Sometimes only once a year, without notice.  Those devs created ways to "save" money buy prepurchasing items that could be upgraded into those betters items, when those better items come up for sale.  If you happen to miss that sale that might be for just a week or something because, life, your options are to use that pre-sunk money on something else or....wait until it's offered again.

Not saying that makes it any less "wrong", just saying WG isn't the first or only one.

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6 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

Oh I see what you are saying now.  Yeah, I wouldn't advise purchasing store credit unless you are super sure you are going to use it later on something.
 

 

7 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

Oh I see. Perhaps. 

edit: I think it's nuts someone would do that, but yah I got you ducky.

 

Yeah, hopefully people aren't going out and getting crazy with it and only using existing resources, but we all know there are definitely a few gamblers in this game and have seen it happen with Christmas crates and the like. 

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16 minutes ago, Devastating_Fieldtrip said:

If you want to bid 9000 doubloons on a captain, you need to have 9000 doubloons to bid with, you cannot buy them after the fact. 

 

That's completely fair. It makes no sense to allow a bid if you don't have the currency. 

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Just now, Wombatmetal said:

That's completely fair. It makes no sense to allow a bid if you don't have the currency. 

Absolutely, but with the currencies they have selected as being easily obtained for real money... WG is just fishing with a bigger net. 

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18 minutes ago, Devastating_Fieldtrip said:

If you want to bid 9000 doubloons on a captain, you need to have 9000 doubloons to bid with, you cannot buy them after the fact. 

So let's say someone really wants that captain and the bids are at 12000 doubloons, so he buys enough doubloons to bid 15000 doubloons. Before the end of the auction the bid is now 20000 doubloons, so he tops up again. He misses out on the crazy last minute action and loses the auction. He has bought the doubloons needed to make his 20k bid hoping to get the captain and doesn't get it leaving him with his pile of doubloons that he otherwise might not have bought, meanwhile WG has all his money from the doubloon purchases and and however many other whales that got caught in the same trap. 

Very much a sunk cost fallacy situation here. 

As I understand, the bids are blind. "Before the end of the auction the bid is now 20000 doubloons, so he tops up again"   this is not a thing, the base bid doesn't change, you can change your bid later but there's no feedback announced to "motivate" you to adjust your bid. It is simultaneously a bid and a bet.

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Just now, ArIskandir said:

As I understand, the bids are blind. "Before the end of the auction the bid is now 20000 doubloons, so he tops up again"   this is not a thing, the base bid doesn't change, you can change your bid later but there's no feedback announced to "motivate" you to adjust your bid. It is simultaneously a bid and a bet.

Hopefully they are blind. If so, then there won't be anything psychologically pressuring the player to keep upping their bid. If so, I hope I haven't given WG any ideas. 

 

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SHHHHHhhhhh......

Be very very quiet WG is hunting whales -hehehe

Elmer_fudd.thumb.jpg.de2b5527032142fafce0752d5293f16d.jpg

Edited by Geococcyx
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You guys may be missing the best part (from WGings perspective). Remember, the resources are removed from your account when you make the bid. Those resources are removed from the economy for the full duration of the auction. Not just for the winners, but for EVERYONE who bids. 

Think about it like this: assume WG runs an auction for a week.  Thousands, or tens of thousands,  of players bid on it. 

Think about the MASSIVE amount of resources WG has taken out of the game for that week. It's not just the winners, it's EVERYONE who bids. 

An example will help. 

Let's say WG lists a rare ship (Missouri) with a starting bid of 250,000 coal. 

Assume 40,000 payers bid on it. 

That means that for as long as the auction lasts, WG has removed at least 10,000,000,000 coal from the market, for just that one auction. 

Think about that, really give it a think.

The single auction described above would remove at least 10 BILLION coal from the economy for the duration of one auction: Considerably more if people bid above the starting bid, which is almost a certainty. 

Now couple the above with WG removing flag rewards for achievements, and you can guess how we will be expected to get our flags from now on. We will see them in the auction house. WG will get MAXIMUM silver/coal for them, AND lock down orders of magnitude more of each resource for each auction.  Billions more. 

Yes. BILLIONS. 

And we can expect WGing to coordinate their other offerings around the auction house. For example, by listing something highly desirable, with an auction in doubloons, during a doubloon sale. If they get 40,000 bids, but only actually "sell" 10 units, think of the tens of millions of doubloons they will sell, to players who want to place a bid but don't have sufficient doubloons.

Likewise, if WG lists 5 or six auctions at the same time, all in doubloons, players will have to buy doubloons if they want to bind on more than one auction. Precisley because every bid they make, reduces the amount of that resource they have available for the duration of the auction.

We know that 99% of those players will not win the auction, but as the OP notes, WGing gets to keep 100% of the money they spend for the doubloons they buy to make the bids. AND the player will eventually spend the purchased doubloons on something.

So WGing can radically decrease the amount of available resources in the economy, while at the same time radically increasing the demand for those same resources.

Edited by Litigo_1970
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I have a very simple solution to the auction house.  To ignore that it even exists.

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3 minutes ago, Litigo_1970 said:

You guys may be missing the best part (from WGings perspective).Remember, the resources are removed from your account when you make the bid. Those resources are removed from the economy for the fiull duration of the auction. Not just for the winners, but for EVERYONE who bids. 

It isn't like they pay interest for stockpiled resources, a temporal removal of resources serves no real practical purpose. 

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7 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

It isn't like they pay interest for stockpiled resources, a temporal removal of resources serves no real practical purpose. 

I think the example would be better using doubloons.  You want to bid 20k doubloons, you buy them.  WG holds them during the auction period.  If you want to spend doubloons in the mean time, you need to buy more.  For the average person, probably not a concern.  For the whale that this stuff is targeted at, they will throw money at the problem.

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14 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

It isn't like they pay interest for stockpiled resources, a temporal removal of resources serves no real practical purpose. 

But it does, and that's the most deceptive part of it all. 

Imagine you have 10,000 doubloons total. 

WG lists three rare ships each with a starting bid of 10,000 doubloons.

If you want to bid on all three auctions, you need to buy at least 20,000 more doubloons.

If the bids go above the starting bid, you will have to buy even more. 

And here is the truly evil/brilliant part of it: If you want to move a captain, or unmount an upgrade during the time your auction bid has your entire doubloon stock tied up? Guess what?

You have to buy more doubloons. WG gets to keep 100% of your money, whether you win teh auction or not. And 99% of those who bid won't win. 

 

Literally BY DEFINITION, if you decrease the supply of a resource, you increase the price of that resource.

Again, BY DEFINITION, if you increase the demand for a resource, you increase the price of that resource. 

Here, WG is artificially decreasing the supply, AND increasing the demand, at the same time. And not just by a small amount. We are talking BILLIONS of units. 

 

 

Edited by Litigo_1970
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27 minutes ago, Litigo_1970 said:

You guys may be missing the best part (from WGings perspective). Remember, the resources are removed from your account when you make the bid. Those resources are removed from the economy for the full duration of the auction. Not just for the winners, but for EVERYONE who bids.

 

21 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

It isn't like they pay interest for stockpiled resources, a temporal removal of resources serves no real practical purpose. 

I think that is is more to get people to use their stockpiled resources so I would expect credits auctions in addition to coal, free experience, and doubloon auctions.

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