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IfYouSeeKhaos

How to make Gun Feeder skill more useful in emergencies.

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Don't remember the old name off the top of my head but you all know the skill I'm referring to..although some of you may not know all of the changes it's gone through (I'm not sure if I even do but gonna cover the 1 different 1 I do remember in a moment here)...

But 1st I'm gonna clarify that I'm just gonna use a 30 second BB reload (15 second with the skill) as an example throughout.

Now I know back in the day (before the last skill rework even...it was a long time ago) the skill was broken OP...by being able to fire whatever was loaded...& just double tap the 1 or 2 key to get a quick reload no matter how many barrels were loaded...

Example...fire AP... double tap the 1 key & 15 seconds later you could fire HE...double tap the 2 key & 15 seconds later you could fire AP (rinse & repeat)...it was like having a MBRB all game long for just 1 commander skill point (or it may have been 2...I forget as it got changed shortly after I started playing)...& it could be used on any ship class so the 15 second reload example here was a crazy broken number on fast firing cruisers).

I may be remembering that wrong & it may have been even easier to where all you had to do was tap the 1 or 2 key once before firing to get that 15 second reload cycle...but either way it was stupid broken OP so they changed it to what we have today (although the name just changed w/the recent skill rework but the parameters didn't)...

After all barrels are loaded you get a 50% reload reduction when changing ammo types...

So even if you only fire a partial load of AP (aka bow tanking scenario for example) & a DD instantly shows up on your flank close by you need to wait 30 seconds for all barrels to load & then double tap the 1 key & wait 15 seconds (for a total of 45 seconds...or 7.5 w/special commanders for 37.5 seconds) to have HE loaded...which just double tapping the 1 key as soon as the DD shows up will just restart the standard reload & only make you need to wait 30 seconds...so the skill doesn't really do much for you in those scenarios...

You would need to have not fired your guns recently (as in ideally over 30 seconds ago) & be able to double tap the 1 key right away to only need to wait the 15 (or 7.5) seconds.

Now my suggestion is if a BB is bow tanking & it's just fired it's front turrets recently & a DD shows up on it's flank & it's rear turrets are loaded & ready to fire (albeit AP) that you should be able to use the skill to reload the turrets that are loaded already in 15 (7.5) seconds...but the turrets that are not already loaded need to wait the full 30 seconds (in the past they would all reload in 15 seconds [no special commanders back then so the 7.5 seconds didn't apply] no matter how much time was left on the front turrets which was why it was OP & changed to what it is now).

^^^That was my original idea & it ends there...just thought of an alternate idea described below...but personally like what's above for easier understanding if nothing else.

Or if you wish (although I think this would require extensive reprogramming)...only the turrets that are loaded when the skill is used load w/HE & the turrets that are not loaded stay on their same timer they were on & reload w/the AP they were reloading & don't reload w/HE until after they're fired again...but have the whole 30 second reload for the HE after the AP is fired (see what I mean by that might be a bit complicated to program...let alone for some players to get the grasp of).

Thoughts/comments/ideas/hints/suggestions will all be ignored because if you disagree w/me you must be out of your mind & if you agree then there's nothing more to say because my brilliance has already been presented for all of you to gasp at in awe...

Or...maybe...more than likely...there's a giant flaw somewhere you would be kind enough to bring to my attention & we can make this skill more useful as the only ships I presently find it useful for are BBs in a nation w/a special commander w/the 75% reload reduction skill buff.

 

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44 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Or...maybe...more than likely...there's a giant flaw somewhere you would be kind enough to bring to my attention & we can make this skill more useful as the only ships I presently find it useful for are BBs in a nation w/a special commander w/the 75% reload reduction skill buff.

The original iteration of the skill was tailor-made for heavy cruisers, the class that more than any other benefits from proper ammo selection and changing ammo types as the situation demands. I use the skill on every CA, and also on CLs with long reloads (10 or so seconds in general). Being able to quickly switch to AP to punish the broadside of a target in a turn is extremely valuable, especially if you are undetected and emptying your barrels would reveal your position (this applies to BBs as well). The seconds you save with the skill can make all the difference between a salvo that lands multiple citadels and one that yields a few pens and bounces/shatters.

Gun Feeder is also my standard 1 pt pick for most battleships, largely because the rest of the 1pt BB skills are pretty terrible. But even before the skill rework I would run it on BB builds that could spare the extra point (PT was the first choice at level 1), which was quite often because I would usually run JoaT over BoS and have an extra point left over. It’s especially useful for ships with smaller caliber guns, like Scharnhorst,  that really need to leverage both AP and HE to be effective, as well as ships that have good HE shells in general (UK, Japanese, and to lesser degree French BBs). That being said, it’s useful even for 16” guns because it allows you greater flexibility and to be more dynamic in your ammo choices rather than just flinging AP at everything.

I honestly feel the skill is perfectly fine as is. Like all other aspects of BB play, it requires planning ahead and decent prediction to get the most use out of the skill. It’s not really designed for those “oh crap!” moments when a DD rounds a island at close range. In those situations you fire what you have loaded, and if the DD sinks you he deserves it for getting the drop on you. It is useful though if a broadside reveals itself while you are burning a bow-in battleship, or if you suspect to encounter a DD and load the HE in advance, to name just a couple examples. The same arguments for its effectiveness on CAs applies to BBs, it just requires more careful use due to the longer reloads involved.

Edited by Nevermore135

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54 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

The original iteration of the skill was tailor-made for heavy cruisers, the class that more than any other benefits from proper ammo selection and changing ammo types as the situation demands. I use the skill on every CA, and also on CLs with long reloads (10 or so seconds in general). Being able to quickly switch to AP to punish the broadside of a target in a turn is extremely valuable, especially if you are undetected and emptying your barrels would reveal your position (this applies to BBs as well). The seconds you save with the skill can make all the difference between a salvo that lands multiple citadels and one that yields a few pens and bounces/shatters.

Gun Feeder is also my standard 1 pt pick for most battleships, largely because the rest of the 1pt BB skills are pretty terrible. But even before the skill rework I would run it on BB builds that could spare the extra point (PT was the first choice at level 1), which was quite often because I would usually run JoaT over BoS and have an extra point left over. It’s especially useful for ships with smaller caliber guns, like Scharnhorst,  that really need to leverage both AP and HE to be effective, as well as ships that have good HE shells in general (UK, Japanese, and to lesser degree French BBs). That being said, it’s useful even for 16” guns because it allows you greater flexibility and to be more dynamic in your ammo choices rather than just flinging AP at everything.

I honestly feel the skill is perfectly fine as is. Like all other aspects of BB play, it requires planning ahead and decent prediction to get the most use out of the skill. It’s not really designed for those “oh crap!” moments when a DD rounds a island at close range. In those situations you fire what you have loaded, and if the DD sinks you he deserves it for getting the drop on you. It is useful though if a broadside reveals itself while you are burning a bow-in battleship, or if you suspect to encounter a DD and load the HE in advance. The same arguments for its effectiveness on CAs applies to BBs, it just requires more careful use due to the longer reloads involved.

The original iteration was made for everybody on every ship type...cuts you gun reload in half as long as you toggle between AP & HE every round...

If your regular reload is 30 (or 10 or 5) seconds you were still firing the ideal ammo every 30 (or 10 or 5) seconds...you just got to fire an additional volley of the unideal ammo every 15 (or 5 or 2.5) seconds in between... that's a win win for everybody...thus the change...but it was before any of the super cruisers were around (if that's what you meant by heavy cruisers).

(Edit...nevermind this paragraph...though you were referring to BBs needing to switch to AP quickly at one point above) As far as BBs go..if it isn't on a commander w/the skill buff...unless it's a BB or BC odds are it's not gonna still be broadside in 15 seconds in most cases & you'll most likely only be able to rely on overmatching to get those citadels.

For most of the CLs you don't need it because unless a broadside is beached most usually don't expect you to switch to AP in them anyway so you can just hit the 2 key once & fire the HE & the AP will probably catch most my surprise anyway...even w/the 10 second reloads...but can see where occasionally (especially in a competitive mode) it can come in handy.

Unfortunately you more often see BBs shooting HE at everything...& turning broadside themselves to get all guns on target to set the most fires possible...even on ships that just used their DC ("but that Thunderer burned me down in that 1 battle & took top of the team... isn't HE spamming the way all BBs should be run?").

Wish 1 of the RN commanders had the Gun Feeder buff...those would have the best chance of catching a lot of people off guard w/an ammo switch while they were trying to turn out after DCing 3 fires... but that would be brutally OP as they all seem to  have extremely decent AP on top of all that HE fire chance.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos
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8 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

The original iteration was made for everybody on every ship type...cuts you gun reload in half as long as you toggle between AP & HE every round..

:Smile_facepalm: If that was indeed the manner in which the skill functioned in the past, it was hilariously broken and that was obviously an unintended bug and the skill was not working as intended. I imagine WG very quickly patched that exploit. I was referring to the extensive period of time after this supposed change and before 0.10.0. Yes, any ship could use any skill under the old system, but Expert Loader was more tailored towards CAs in the same way that SE was tailored towards DDs/CVs, BoS was primarily a BB skill, and while I could take smoke screen expert on any ship I chose, it was clearly designed with certain ones in mind. Certain ship classes would get a lot of use out of a skill, while it was less useful to near useless for others. Supposedly, this was one of the main reasons behind the rework. :Smile_sceptic:

8 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

For most of the CLs you don't need it because unless a broadside is beached most usually don't expect you to switch to AP in them anyway so you can just hit the 2 key once & fire the HE & the AP will probably catch most my surprise anyway...even w/the 10 second reloads...but can see where occasionally (especially in a competitive mode) it can come in handy.

Yes, Gun Feeder is a skill that allows you to eke out that extra bit of efficiency. Most players can do fine without it, but for skilled and practiced players who have trained themselves to be mindful of their reload times, think about their shot placement, and just not mindlessly spam HE or AP, it allows them to utilize their tools to their maximum potential.

8 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Edit...nevermind this paragraph...though you were referring to BBs needing to switch to AP quickly at one point above) As far as BBs go..if it isn't on a commander w/the skill buff...unless it's a BB or BC odds are it's not gonna still be broadside in 15 seconds in most cases & you'll most likely only be able to rely on overmatching to get those citadels.

I actually was referring to BBs switching ammo types for part of my post. The same logic that applies to cruisers applies to BBs, more care just needs to be taken because the reload times are longer. Yes, you might not be able to catch that cruiser that flashes her broadside briefly, but the same thing could happen during your regular reload cycle. Any time you have the wrong ammo choice loaded and are more than halfway through your reload, Gun Feeder will allow you to get the ammo loaded faster. I cannot count the number of times I’ve switched to HE to maximize my damage against angled targets, had other ships begin to show me broadside because they thought they were safe since I was firing HE, and been able to switch to the AP and punish them because they did not expect me to be able to fire the AP that quickly. Playstyle and fire discipline also plays a role in how useful the skill ends up being, especially for BBs. It is a skill that rewards players who are experienced enough to anticipate their opponents actions and are willing to hold their fire to get better shots vs. constantly firing the guns every time they reload.

Edited by Nevermore135

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6 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

:Smile_facepalm: If that was indeed the manner in which the skill functioned in the past, it was hilariously broken and that was obviously an unintended bug and the skill was not working as intended. I imagine WG very quickly patched that exploit.

I actually was referring to BBs switching ammo types for part of my post. The same logic that applies to cruisers applies to BBs, more care just needs to be taken because the reload times are longer. Yes, you might not be able to catch that cruiser that flashes her broadside briefly, but the same thing could happen during your regular reload cycle. Any time you have the wrong ammo choice loaded and are more than halfway through your reload, Gun Feeder will allow you to get the ammo loaded faster. I cannot count the number of times I’ve switched to HE to maximize my damage against angled targets, had other ships begin to show me broadside because they thought they were safe since I was firing HE, and been able to switch to the AP and punish them because they did not expect me to be able to fire the AP that quickly. Playstyle and fire discipline also plays a role in how useful the skill ends up being, especially for BBs. It is a skill that rewards players who are experienced enough to anticipate their opponents actions and are willing to hold their fire to get better shots vs. constantly firing the guns every time they reload.

Actually the skill was that way for quite awhile when I 1st started but the exploit of it wasn't figured out by enough people for it to get on WG's radar so it just stayed that way for awhile...I figured it out quite quickly...but my aim as a noob was such that it was more of a waste of concentration toggling back & forth w/it than if I'd of just paid more attention to aiming (& if you triple clicked instead of double clicked it reset the full reload time so it was tricky to use just right if you hadn't practiced w/it...which I hadn't much...

But I was introduced to the game through a ST that I pointed it out to eventually (didn't bother at the start as I figured it was intentional by WG & that he used it that way already).

I seen him not using it that way & inquired why he didn't just use it as "it was intended" (just to clarify... I'm not quoting any actual source there...I was quoting my thought process at the time & the gist of what I said...to him) & he was like..."huh"...

Didn't take them long to faze it out after that & he's probably the 1 that pointed it out to them.

(Another clarifier...the skill was worded exactly as it is now but w/out the "after all turrets are loaded" requirement before).

In CV matches I tend to arm up the HE at the start in BBs for at least a couple volleys to strip some AA...if I have a spotter I specifically try to aim for ships the CV is harassing (& at 1st encounter most ships are mostly bow in while pushing forward anyway...occasionally it backfires & I miss the opportunity for a juicy broadside right off the jump but normally it pays off w/a lot of AA stripped...just as long as you let the CV know which ones you dropped it ends up not being a wasted effort).

It also allows me to pump an HE round at the 1st spotted DD to help soften it up for the potential initial knife fight & most importantly makes it look like I'm (still) an HE spamming noob (as I started out as 1...160+ battles at an average under 30k damage to get through the Nagato...yikes. Plan on resetting that line for the RB 1 day just so I can go back to that ship & help it's stats not be so embarrassing for it...started learning how to hit cits w/the Amagi & actually enjoyed it & the Izumo at a time when Izumo was considered the worst T9 ship in the game...& my stats in it weren't overwhelming by any stretch ..but compared to the poor Nagato it was comparatively much better)...but I don't use the skill if a commander can't but it down to 7.5 seconds...just wait until the 3rd or 4th volley then tap the 2 key before firing the last HE salvo to switch & look for somebody that fell for the bait.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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