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Captain_Rawhide

Yoshino - worth getting after the Capt nerfs.?

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Looking to spend some coal before my coupon expires.  Have been steering clear of Cruisers because the Capt 'rework' was so brutal to them.   I would have a 19pt Capt to put on her.  Not interested in the Salem - already have DM.  Just curious what other think about her now.  Thanks

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Love my Yoshino.  It's like a little Thunderer.

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WDYM "so brutal" to cruisers? The only cruisers that ended up worse off were super cruisers (which needed a nerf anyways) and Flint.

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Survivability was never Yoshino's strong point. Arguably she's stronger now because of the "lighthouse" build that improves her HE and makes her terrible concealment a strength 

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9 minutes ago, SirPent13 said:

WDYM "so brutal" to cruisers? The only cruisers that ended up worse off were super cruisers (which needed a nerf anyways) and Flint.

That Flint .8 km buff for 11.9.... I'll show those T8s and 9s eventually!!!!!!!

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I love my Yoshino, I think it was a great investment. If you like Henri, it is great fire starter with great torps and AP is good for broadside CAs. Play at max range early on and then move in late game keep moving and you can dodge at range.

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26 minutes ago, SirPent13 said:

WDYM "so brutal" to cruisers? The only cruisers that ended up worse off were super cruisers (which needed a nerf anyways) and Flint.

Emden, Hermelin, Dresden, Katori, krasny krym, Atlanta, Bogatyr, Svietlana and Colbert, Kolberg would like to have a word with you. Also, Bougainville and Friant disagree with their loss of action and adventure in their community.

Cruisers, especially the adventurous ones were hit pretty hard. Hard in range and RoF. This is in fact a double nerf because most of those ships already took a hit in HE penetration. 

Even though Atlanta (1 ship) received her AFT range back, she didn't get her BFT RoF back, and in a t9 environment, neither of those were spectacular or efficient.

Meanwhile, Emden is completely out ranged by Dresden, and both have taken a RoF nerf with loss to AFT.

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15 minutes ago, SirPent13 said:

WDYM "so brutal" to cruisers? The only cruisers that ended up worse off were super cruisers (which needed a nerf anyways) and Flint.

You forgot Smolensk.  I disagree when you say it was only just super cruisers that took a nerf.  CLs also ate it.  Let's stay on topic, Yoshino.

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Yoshino burns a little more, but Yoshi's biggest problem has always been snacking on overmatch BB ammunition.

It's AP is brutal when you get to use it.  It's HE is damaging, and its torps hit hard.

But it is also YUGE, so getting to a position to use anything but the HE is difficult.

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18 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Yoshino burns a little more, but Yoshi's biggest problem has always been snacking on overmatch BB ammunition.

It's AP is brutal when you get to use it.  It's HE is damaging, and its torps hit hard.

But it is also YUGE, so getting to a position to use anything but the HE is difficult.

Yoshi's problem is low influence on the battle.  It's good fire farmer, but needs a lot of time to do it, is lacking radar, and is too big/fragile to get close enough to support DDs.... so basically it trades a bunch of team utility for that fire farming ability.  There's a reason why its WR rate isn't so good.

Edited by YouSatInGum
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1 hour ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Looking to spend some coal before my coupon expires.  Have been steering clear of Cruisers because the Capt 'rework' was so brutal to them.   I would have a 19pt Capt to put on her.  Not interested in the Salem - already have DM.  Just curious what other think about her now.  Thanks

For a long time I was not interested in getting the Salem since I had the Des Moines. But the more I play the Salem the more I have discovered that I tend to do much better with the Salem then with the Des Moines and consider it to be a worthy addition.

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2 minutes ago, WM1957 said:

For a long time I was not interested in getting the Salem since I had the Des Moines. But the more I play the Salem the more I have discovered that I tend to do much better with the Salem then with the Des Moines and consider it to be a worthy addition.

Salem is more forgiving. Salem is all about personal survival, DM is all about team play. 

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1 hour ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Looking to spend some coal before my coupon expires.  Have been steering clear of Cruisers because the Capt 'rework' was so brutal to them.   I would have a 19pt Capt to put on her.  Not interested in the Salem - already have DM.  Just curious what other think about her now.  Thanks

The cruisers are fine even after the rework. They didn't get any over-the-top skills like Deadeye, but they came through ok. There are some skills that benefit Yoshino a good bit. Personally, I don't like her, but that's just me. Long range sniping doesn't help win games, in fact it tends to lose them, and that is all Yoshino rally does. If you like that style and are good at it Yoshino will do well for you. It's basically a huge, clumsy Zao.  Key is  avoid getting drilled by a BB at long range (or short or medium range as well). 

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2 hours ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

You forgot Smolensk.  I disagree when you say it was only just super cruisers that took a nerf.  CLs also ate it.  Let's stay on topic, Yoshino.

All cruisers with guns under 149mm can take the heavy HE/SAP skill for an extra 10% damage without the +15% detection debuff, there's your BFT. How did CL's get hurt? They didn't lose anything through the rework, and some could say they gained utility with the new consumable enhancement skills.

2 hours ago, Crokodone said:

Emden, Hermelin, Dresden, Katori, krasny krym, Atlanta, Bogatyr, Svietlana and Colbert, Kolberg would like to have a word with you. Also, Bougainville and Friant disagree with their loss of action and adventure in their community.

Cruisers, especially the adventurous ones were hit pretty hard. Hard in range and RoF. This is in fact a double nerf because most of those ships already took a hit in HE penetration. 

Even though Atlanta (1 ship) received her AFT range back, she didn't get her BFT RoF back, and in a t9 environment, neither of those were spectacular or efficient.

Meanwhile, Emden is completely out ranged by Dresden, and both have taken a RoF nerf with loss to AFT.

I feel like bringing up low-tier cruisers is a bit of a stretch, gievn how little skill is needed to succeed at those lower tiers. (Sorry your sealclubbing ships somehow got nerfed)

Define "adventurous". 
The only ships that suffered range/RoF issues are Atlanta (fixed), Flint (still an issue), Smolensk (you trade your 10% RoF for a 10% increase in shell damage, so you end up with same DPM), and Colbert (Got agility buffs, and benefits from the same things as Smolensk does). In terms of HE pen, The only changes to HE pen that have happened recently happened during the IFHE rework, so not sure where your HE pen changes are coming from.

Edited by SirPent13
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1 hour ago, ZaCLoNe said:

That Flint .8 km buff for 11.9.... I'll show those T8s and 9s eventually!!!!!!!

Absolutely game breaking buffs amirite? /s

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39 minutes ago, SirPent13 said:

The only ships that suffered range/RoF issues are Atlanta (fixed), Flint (still an issue), Smolensk (you trade your 10% RoF for a 10% increase in shell damage, so you end up with same DPM), and Colbert (Got agility buffs, and benefits from the same things as Smolensk does. In terms of HE pen, The only changes to HE pen that have happened recently happened during the IFHE rework, so not sure where your HE pen changes are coming from.

arguably, 10% he damage is worst, since you cannot pen the majority of ships at tier 10.

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33 minutes ago, SirPent13 said:

All cruisers with guns under 149mm can take the heavy HE/SAP skill for an extra 10% damage without the +15% detection debuff, there's your BFT. How did CL's get hurt? They didn't lose anything through the rework, and some could say they gained utility with the new consumable enhancement skills.

I feel like bringing up low-tier cruisers is a bit of a stretch, gievn how little skill is needed to succeed at those lower tiers. (Sorry your sealclubbing ships somehow got nerfed)

Define "adventurous". 
The only ships that suffered range/RoF issues are Atlanta (fixed), Flint (still an issue), Smolensk (you trade your 10% RoF for a 10% increase in shell damage, so you end up with same DPM), and Colbert (Got agility buffs, and benefits from the same things as Smolensk does. In terms of HE pen, The only changes to HE pen that have happened recently happened during the IFHE rework, so not sure where your HE pen changes are coming from.

Worcester, Nevsky cannot take HE/SAP without the debuff.  And not everybody wants to take HE intertia, which makes that skill useless for those.  Smolensk, I lost almost 1km of range and  had to take the Gun Fire module to do it, which means I also lost reload time as well.  Let me try one more time, please keep this on topic.  If you want to debate the cruiser captains skills go make another thread.  Thankyou.

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2 hours ago, SirPent13 said:

WDYM "so brutal" to cruisers? The only cruisers that ended up worse off were super cruisers (which needed a nerf anyways) and Flint.

Now Siegfried REALLY want a word with you......maybe more. Also some RN Cl's....actually all.

Edited by Bandi73

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4 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Worcester, Nevsky cannot take HE/SAP without the debuff.  And not everybody wants to take HE intertia, which makes that skill useless for those.  Smolensk, I lost almost 1km of range and  had to take the Gun Fire module to do it, which means I also lost reload time as well.  Let me try one more time, please keep this on topic.  If you want to debate the cruiser captains skills go make another thread.  Thankyou.

you brought up the topic of how the captain rework was brutal for cruisers, so in my eyes, it's entirely on topic. You bring up a good point about Smolensk and the range, i forgot that range mod and AFT had differing buffs. Regarding Worcester Nevsky, not taking the heavy HE/SAP doesn't leave them in any worse place than they were pre-rework, so not sure why those were brought up.

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Yoshino is a ship that can only damage farm. It can't rush anything, nor hold anything. It's basically a mini thunderer, and I guess with the range nerfs this might be someone's new favorite ship due to the insane range this ship has.

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3 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

Yoshi's problem is low influence on the battle.  It's good fire farmer, but needs a lot of time to do it, is lacking radar, and is too big/fragile to get close enough to support DDs.... so basically it trades a bunch of team utility for that fire farming ability.  There's a reason why its WR rate isn't so good.

This sums up my experience with the Yoshino pretty accurately.  It's a damage farmer that can't carry.  It's not un-fun, but I know what I'm signing up for when I take her out of port.

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3 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

Yoshi's problem is low influence on the battle.  It's good fire farmer, but needs a lot of time to do it, is lacking radar, and is too big/fragile to get close enough to support DDs.... so basically it trades a bunch of team utility for that fire farming ability.  There's a reason why its WR rate isn't so good.

Isn't that what I said?

Just not as well as you.

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5 hours ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Looking to spend some coal before my coupon expires.  Have been steering clear of Cruisers because the Capt 'rework' was so brutal to them.   I would have a 19pt Capt to put on her.  Not interested in the Salem - already have DM.  Just curious what other think about her now.  Thanks

Ship can be fun to play if your torps hit. It needs a huge map to be effective. The smaller the map the less it performs. Take ranked play this season (generally smaller maps related to caps and important areas) It is the worst performing ship at tier 10 by a wide margin.

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5 hours ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Yoshino - worth getting after the Capt nerfs.?

Yes, as long as you don't mind relatively passive, long-range play. I got it instead of the Thunderer, and boy am I glad.

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Yoshino didnt really got nerfed. The removal of FP is annoying but you can work without, you just have to be a little less agressive.

 

She's still a ship I would recommend if you just want to HE spam. She isnt bad like people describes, but it's just when you compare her to other supercruiser, Alaska is OP and Stalingrad is fairly tanky with strong AP, and both have radar while Yoshino doesnt. But Yoshino is better at burning down BB and other supercruiser.

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