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EasternSun

Z-31 AP cannot even pen a Fiji broadside

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So I earned this Turd from the German tokens. I can confirm this ship is so bad I have no interest in grinding it.  Full Broadside Fiji at 6km and it bounced all the AP shells.

Switched to HE and barely did 400 damage per salvo. This ship was designed to steal Free XP from the player base as no same person who cares about winning will play this ship. 

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The x31 is somewhere towards the bottom of the lethality totem pole as it were on the entire game of dd's You can do a little bit with it but when it comes to shooting, it does not do enough damage.

In another video game I remember a weapons system being so poor in shooting and failing to take out legitmate opposite side targets and their humans in game that it just simply says Here I am kill me with it's outgoing fire that does hardly no damage. It was one of the reasons I left WOTS years ago.

I never use AP on DDs generally and experimented with AP on the whole DD line from 6 to 9 and found all of them just piles up a mountain on ricohets on anything in game. There is no point. Even the Schultz and IX DD's ap are crappy. So back to HE.

And while you are trying to burn a target down with x31 HE it sails all the way up to you and deletes you. Poof. So that one is going to be a port queen. I am not sorry that I tried these DDs at least once but its not a total failure. As DD's they are not. Little tiny cruisers stuffed into a DD hull unable to do much more than a bit of air defense and spot.

Edited by xHeavy

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Was there ever a worse tech tree ship than Z-31?

Karlsruhe, maybe?

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8 minutes ago, vak_ said:

Was there ever a worse tech tree ship than Z-31?

Karlsruhe, maybe?

But Karls AP is phenomenal when it hits 

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7 minutes ago, vak_ said:

Was there ever a worse tech tree ship than Z-31?

Karlsruhe, maybe?

Karlsruhe and a couple other non italian ships come to mind. I only kept like two or three Italian ships. I am not motivated at all to get into the Italian cruiser stuff. Its too bad.

I do know there is almost 6000 tokens sitting there unspent tonight. All of the stuff is bought. Just waiting for the X DD to be released whenever.

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Are you sure you didn't get overpens? Because I hit an Algerie's citadel several times the other day when I was given the broadside. Fiji's armor is too thin to get full pens, especially at close range.

Edited by Singularity_invader

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14 minutes ago, vak_ said:

Was there ever a worse tech tree ship than Z-31?

Karlsruhe, maybe?

Mutsuki? Though I don’t personally think so.

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19 minutes ago, Singularity_invader said:

Are you sure you didn't get overpens? Because I hit an Algerie's citadel several times the other day when I was given the broadside. Fiji's armor is too thin to get full pens, especially at close range.

I would take over pens. it only had 3k HP left and I barely won against it with full HP on my side. This ship has no guns and slow torps. It's a designed failboat to get players to spend Free XP to skip. I usually can play all the "Bad" boats and perform. This ship is just horrible.

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15 minutes ago, EasternSun said:

I would take over pens. it only had 3k HP left and I barely won against it with full HP on my side. This ship has no guns and slow torps. It's a designed failboat to get players to spend Free XP to skip. I usually can play all the "Bad" boats and perform. This ship is just horrible.

Sure, I agree that this ship is indeed hard to play for many.

Another factor to take into consideration, if I remembered correctly, is that Fiji's citadel is relatively large, but it rises just a little over the waterline, and the top of the citadel is fairly flat, which is difficult for AP shells with relatively high muzzle velocity and flat arcs (German and French AP shells in general), to actually hit and penetrate at a close distance.

Edited by Singularity_invader

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A replay would easily clear this up.

Artillery Chart showing Z-31's AP performance.

Qq4kKkJ.jpg

And Fiji's Citadel, her belt armor is 114mm.

Rv9hO83.jpg

 

Fully researched Z-31 has a max gun range of 11.5km, so at max range Z-31's AP has sufficient Penetration to Citadel Fiji's 114mm armor belt.

If you hit the armor belt and got no Cits against Fiji's 114mm belt, then it was just a bounce.  Often times even with USN CAs that have special AP bounce angles, it looks like you got flat broadside, but you really don't.  Also, a ship can maneuver enough while shells are in the air that by the time they hit, they are at bounce angles.  Fiji doesn't have a torpedo bulge to absorb shots.

 

Edit:  Another possibility is the range was too far.  I forgot to add in the prospect of Main Battery and AA Expert, which adds 20% gun range to DD guns.  If that was taken, then the range extends to 13.82km.  Once you're past the regular 11.5km gun range, Z-31's AP loses Penetration that it no longer can Cit Fiji's 114mm armor belt.

 

Again, a replay would easily clear this up but I'm betting the above is what happened.  I highly doubt a flat, broadside / perpendicular strike by Z-31 AP shells against Fiji's 114mm belt at normal range would result in failure for the attack.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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58 minutes ago, vak_ said:

Was there ever a worse tech tree ship than Z-31?

Karlsruhe, maybe?

Nino Bixio

Overmatched everywhere by every ship in the entire game except Tachibana and Smith

No HE and SAP cannot pen anything due to its caliber

No torpedoes

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1 hour ago, Singularity_invader said:

Try Visby.

Except for a couple that have been thrown at me, (was Visby from that Christmas event?) and Orland from a container, I’ve effectively refused to play the IKEA botes.

Both I played five Co-ops in, but no Randoms yet. I have no recollection of either being good or bad.

The exceptions to that are Blykawica, Friesland, and Smaland, (only because it was going away.

The first two I’ve liked, and played in Randoms.

Smaland as well; but it’s an extremely bizarre duck. Five Randoms. Five wins. However I only did about 92k TOTAL damage in those five games, only sank one ship, and literally shot down ZERO aircraft. Not even a cat plane.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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3 hours ago, EasternSun said:

So I earned this Turd from the German tokens. I can confirm this ship is so bad I have no interest in grinding it.  Full Broadside Fiji at 6km and it bounced all the AP shells.

Switched to HE and barely did 400 damage per salvo. This ship was designed to steal Free XP from the player base as no same person who cares about winning will play this ship. 

Firstly, if you're at 6km from an enemy CL, you're in the wrong spot - these ships are designed to have the advantage at range, where their shell speed, dispersion, and penetration mean they can hit exactly where they want to, while the enemy CL can't return effective fire.

Secondly, at 6km against a broadside Fiji, with Z-31's shell velocity, you're likely overpenning due to the shell passing through the far side of the ship before detonating.  This will give overpens, even through the citadel - the shells actually have to detonate inside the citadel for it to count.

I put up a video with tips on Z-31 if you're interested.  It's not the greatest ship, it could probably use a small buff, but I found it both effective and fun to play.  It's absolutely amazing to be able to hit the exact part of the ship you want, with all of your shells, at long ranges - for people who can't aim though, or don't know AP mechanics and ship armour profiles, they probably think it's the worst ship in the game!

Playing it correctly is key, in particular maintaining the correct range at all times, and never getting drawn into close range DD fights.

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Dont charge off after DD's You get sunk. Bait them away then blast em with another dd that has faster firepower.

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1 hour ago, Moggytwo said:

Firstly, if you're at 6km from an enemy CL, you're in the wrong spot - these ships are designed to have the advantage at range, where their shell speed, dispersion, and penetration mean they can hit exactly where they want to, while the enemy CL can't return effective fire.

Secondly, at 6km against a broadside Fiji, with Z-31's shell velocity, you're likely overpenning due to the shell passing through the far side of the ship before detonating.  This will give overpens, even through the citadel - the shells actually have to detonate inside the citadel for it to count.

I put up a video with tips on Z-31 if you're interested.  It's not the greatest ship, it could probably use a small buff, but I found it both effective and fun to play.  It's absolutely amazing to be able to hit the exact part of the ship you want, with all of your shells, at long ranges - for people who can't aim though, or don't know AP mechanics and ship armour profiles, they probably think it's the worst ship in the game!

Playing it correctly is key, in particular maintaining the correct range at all times, and never getting drawn into close range DD fights.

Im learning this really quick with the F Schultz. Its not able to be played like a regular DD and the only thing it needs is a slightly faster reload(which its getting) for me to enjoy fully.

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The z31 is not a great ship but I have liked it so far . I had low expectations when I got it so was surprised  how much fun I have had so far. Will it single  handedly win games? No it is a support ship instead of a front line ship. The accuracy is amazing as someone said earlier .I have punished alot if cruisers that have thought it was an easy kill. Just have to know armor of the ship your shooting at. If your having trouble penning with ap just aim for nose or tail  on BBs and CA that are broadside. CLs like was said earlier will overpen if too close almost everytime .These guns load slow but they shoot straight at what your aiming at so you can accurately aim at certain points of ships. As I said not a great ship but would not call it the worst . You can have good games in it just can't play it like a traditional dd.  

Edit : lol i type to slow just saw someone say the same thing in an earlier post  so my post is pointless as everything I just said was already said. 

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6 hours ago, EasternSun said:

This ship was designed to steal Free XP from the player base

So tell me, how does it do this?

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5 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I highly doubt a flat, broadside / perpendicular strike by Z-31 AP shells against Fiji's 114mm belt at normal range would result in failure for the attack.

At that range you  can easily citadel a Fiji in the Z-31.   

As you stated a replay is required to see what the OP actually experienced.

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4 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

I put up a video with tips on Z-31 if you're interested.

Nice. I should be getting her this weekend. Will be a fairly low priority as I currently have a regrind in the works, but I'm interested to see how she works out for myself.

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That german T5 DD with the 105mm trebuchets was equally awful

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7 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

That german T5 DD with the 105mm trebuchets was equally awful

When did you first play it? 

With the hydro, she is (at least in my experience) a much better and far more enjoyable ship. I agree that as she stood before that, she was a trial I would rather not have experienced again.

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5 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

Firstly, if you're at 6km from an enemy CL, you're in the wrong spot - these ships are designed to have the advantage at range, where their shell speed, dispersion, and penetration mean they can hit exactly where they want to, while the enemy CL can't return effective fire.

Secondly, at 6km against a broadside Fiji, with Z-31's shell velocity, you're likely overpenning due to the shell passing through the far side of the ship before detonating.  This will give overpens, even through the citadel - the shells actually have to detonate inside the citadel for it to count.

I put up a video with tips on Z-31 if you're interested.  It's not the greatest ship, it could probably use a small buff, but I found it both effective and fun to play.  It's absolutely amazing to be able to hit the exact part of the ship you want, with all of your shells, at long ranges - for people who can't aim though, or don't know AP mechanics and ship armour profiles, they probably think it's the worst ship in the game!

Playing it correctly is key, in particular maintaining the correct range at all times, and never getting drawn into close range DD fights.

Couldn't have said better.

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