Impact of two-human coop change

[Orange_KGB_asset]

It is pretty clear that coop Matchmaking was changed recently so that there are more two-human matches and more nine-human matches but fewer where there are 3, 4 or 5 humans. Not saying the change is good or bad.  Or rather, it is good and bad. The bad is that win rates drop because the odds of a match going sideways are much higher if only two humans (especially if one of you is bad). The good is that the chances of getting more kills and XP increases. For myself, I'll call it a wash...

[theLaalaa]

My invincible Pommern enjoys the two-human matches, to be sure.

[Princess_Daystar]

11 minutes ago, theLaalaa said:

My invincible Pommern enjoys the two-human matches, to be sure.

My Iowa does too.

 

[Orange_KGB_asset]

In a GK or Kremlin, I'm fine with two-human matches. In a lolibote or French DD...not so much.

[Ann_Darrow]

In Musashi?  -- Bring it on!

In Harekaze? -- ummm....  As much as I'd like to recreate some scenes from the show, solo'ing 3-4 bots making a beeline for you from the get-go might be a little too much action.

In Alaska or Prinz Eugen?  -- tossup.  Depends on the map.

[Potohto928]

Swedish DDs. The only time you can torp a friendly ship and NOT get a penalty.

[DJC_499]

5 minutes ago, Ann_Darrow said:

In Musashi?  -- Bring it on!

In Harekaze? -- ummm....  As much as I'd like to recreate some scenes from the show, solo'ing 3-4 bots making a beeline for you from the get-go might be a little too much action.

In Alaska or Prinz Eugen?  -- tossup.  Depends on the map.

I am right there with you as I playing (at least in my opinion) "high carry potential" ships mainly consisting of:

ARP Yamato

Yamato

Musashi

Ohio

Massachusetts

Massachusetts B

[gillhunter]

I wonder what the intent of this was for. To drive people out of coop? I'm not going back to randoms. 

[Asym_KS]

1 hour ago, ShortFingerIvankaFondler said:

It is pretty clear that coop Matchmaking was changed recently so that there are more two-human matches and more nine-human matches but fewer where there are 3, 4 or 5 humans. Not saying the change is good or bad.  Or rather, it is good and bad. The bad is that win rates drop because the odds of a match going sideways are much higher if only two humans (especially if one of you is bad). The good is that the chances of getting more kills and XP increases. For myself, I'll call it a wash...

It's the down side that is what is most troubling and one that is not mentioned ^^^^...............you have to play OP ships (heavily armed CA's and BB's)      AND   have a good wing man to not lose...!

I've had 8 losses so far and ZERO since all we do now is Division to avoid losing.   Of those eight losses:  one was an AFK wing man during the Yamato event (I ended up against 4 Yammy's !) = Loss;  One was in a Haragumo and the other human went to the first cap, rammed an enemy ship immediately and I had 5 enemy bots = loss (I'm only in COOP for kills...);  One I was in a Kagero and the other human was a PVP player in a BB that sat all the way in the rear and would not come forward = loss; and, so on and on and on.....  You get the idea.  PVE mains "risk a loss everytime they want to play a TT or lessor capability ship" because the "deck can be stacked against them"........

As a PVE main, it's bad enough when PVP players wander in to "farm value" in COOP.   When there are only two humans and one of them doesn't care about WR in COOP...........well, the PVE player gets screwed.

NOW, let's be fair:  I have won far more that 8 losses that suggest the end of the world.......  But, I really try to keep a 98+ WR and this "programming gimmick" puts PVE players in the position of "having to division"; "ignoring losses"; or, "only playing ships that are strong enough to stand on their own......"; and that, is discriminatory because it creates a game play culture where PVP has all of the advantages and PVE always gets screwed.   All all event PVE available events??? NO.....

And, the most recent reply to my Tickets reporting this situation have changed to:  "we are investigating" from "this is normal MM behavior".....  We'll see what Customer Support says and go from there ! 

[Asym_KS]

4 minutes ago, gillhunter said:

I wonder what the intent of this was for. To drive people out of coop? I'm not going back to randoms. 

If I were to guess:  yes.  Event's have had PVP only conditions for a long time......  Right now, we are in that boat with current events.  And, one event, at the last moment recognized that PVE wasn't even mentioned and a CC then had to chime in stating that was in error..............and, the severs crashed.....  Funny that happened?  Yes, it's a co-inky-dink but it sure was funny timing..........

I wonder if the events affected will be extended; PT compensation distributed; and, a report sent out as to why this occurred (power outage because of terrible weather perhaps??) 

Don't get your hopes up........  PVE must be costing our host more than they want to spend........otherwise, they'd realize we are paying customers whom support the same game;.........and, are treated, differently........for some unknown reason.

[_WaveRider_]

I do enjoy the 2 human game and do not believe I have lost yet - just in case I'll say I've lost one lol.

However, I know some have had problems and am happy to go back to the old the old way if it is better for the community as a whole.

[barbaroja_Ar]

Unluckily, I'm grinding my Fletcher, even i really like the ship, when the 2 humans are DDs it gets rough. I'm in 70/30 losses/wins in that opportunities.

The rare exception is when you have an IJN gun boat as your partner, then it's almost always winnable.

[YouSatInGum]

1 hour ago, ShortFingerIvankaFondler said:

In a GK or Kremlin, I'm fine with two-human matches. In a lolibote or French DD...not so much.

Are you kidding?

This is best for DDs.... couple days ago killed 5 and got 300k and a 1k base score with Harugumo.... have done similar stuff with Kleber and Marceau....and Benham.... oh my

Only thing better is 100% bot team but you gotta log on at 3am to get that.

 

One thing you gotta be careful of is if you kill stuff too fast, you create too much a blowout for your side.  Your bots are stupid but they have good aim so with lack of nearby targets, the go 2 or 3 on one on the red bots.  Your bots start kill stealing from you.

[Slimeball91]

26 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

It's the down side that is what is most troubling and one that is not mentioned ^^^^...............you have to play OP ships (heavily armed CA's and BB's)      AND   have a good wing man to not lose...!

I think this is a very strange way to look at this.  You are a highly experienced co-op player.  I'm sure you can hold your own in almost any ship without much help from teammates.

31 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

But, I really try to keep a 98+ WR....

You seem overly focused on WR.  As I see it, the entire point of co-op is to have a carefree gaming experience.  I'm not trying to belittle your point of view, you are certainly entitled enjoy the game as you see fit.  I guess my point is you seem to only enjoy the game from a very narrow set conditions.  With that type of mindset you are bond to be disappointed.  

31 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

This is best for DDs

I don't know if DDs are the best, but they certainly can be strong.  You listed some of the strongest DDs in the game.  Playing the strongest of any ship type you should be very well.

36 minutes ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

Unluckily, I'm grinding my Fletcher, even i really like the ship, when the 2 humans are DDs it gets rough. I'm in 70/30 losses/wins in that opportunities.

The question should be are you getting more XP overall, even with the occasional loss?  To be fair, losing 30% is probably beyond the occasional loss.  Still, I'd guess you are probably still ahead in XP overall.

BTW, I find the Fletcher to be pretty strong.  You should be able to do well, just play more carefully.  I'm sure you already understand that.  Best of luck with your Fletcher grind.

[Singularity_invader]

49 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

Are you kidding?

This is best for DDs.... couple days ago killed 5 and got 300k and a 1k base score with Harugumo.... have done similar stuff with Kleber and Marceau....and Benham.... oh my

Only thing better is 100% bot team but you gotta log on at 3am to get that.

 

One thing you gotta be careful of is if you kill stuff too fast, you create too much a blowout for your side.  Your bots are stupid but they have good aim so with lack of nearby targets, the go 2 or 3 on one on the red bots.  Your bots start kill stealing from you.

Try a 2 human team in a Varetas or Skane and see what happens, lol.

[barbaroja_Ar]

1 minute ago, Slimeball91 said:

BTW, I find the Fletcher to be pretty strong.  You should be able to do well, just play more carefully.  I'm sure you already understand that.  Best of luck with your Fletcher grind.

It's a really fun ship to play. It even got a perma camo (she really deserve it).

The problem is green bots die too fast, and Fletcher DPM is not high enough when you have 3/4 ships against you.

Overall, not a big problem.

But I still prefer human partners (although sometimes bots do better)

[AdmiralThunder]

Personally I am loving the 2/7. More damage for me to farm plus 1 other human to help out if things go South. Have had some of my best games ever during this time, in all ship types (CV, BB, Cruiser, DD), at all tiers, including my best ever game of 407K.

[AVR_Project]

If you're in a DD,   Shoot the water and intentionally miss the bots.

They will miss you right back.

Get close and use torps to clean them off.

[Singularity_invader]

1 minute ago, AVR_Project said:

If you're in a DD,   Shoot the water and intentionally miss the bots.

They will miss you right back.

Get close and use torps to clean them off.

They'll shoot you to death even if you don't shoot at all, how are they going to miss their shots if you miss yours? That's ludicrous.

[Estimated_Prophet]

2 hours ago, ShortFingerIvankaFondler said:

In a GK or Kremlin, I'm fine with two-human matches. In a lolibote or French DD...not so much.

1 hour ago, gillhunter said:

I wonder what the intent of this was for. To drive people out of coop? I'm not going back to randoms. 

I am honestly not sure what exactly is the issue with the 2/7 MM. Why should this suddenly make people lose more?

If anything; all the 9 human games annoy me because it can cut down on my earnings, (more green players who can (usually,) actually shoot straight.)

If I’m in a 2/7 and the other human sinks, that’s no different to me than a bot in a 1/8 team sinking.

Thing is; I mostly play post 2300, and am used to playing 1/8 all the time anyway.

As for getting swarmed by bots? I just deal with it. If I win? Great. If I loose? Curse out WG and move on.

9 minutes ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

The problem is green bots die too fast, and Fletcher DPM is not high enough when you have 3/4 ships against you.

Don’t really find getting mobbed an issue, especially if other bots are still around to spot. Smoke, island cover, ring-around-the-rosie, and torpedoes usually do the trick.

Fletcher has plenty of DPM. Caught in the open with no smoke, you’re likely dead anyway. I just try to work to make sure all of them can’t shoot me at the same time.

9 minutes ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

Overall, not a big problem.

But I still prefer human partners (although sometimes bots do better)

Agree on that last.

I’ve seen all human teams melt faster than 1/8 teams.

2 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Personally I am loving the 2/7. More damage for me to farm plus 1 other human to help out if things go South. Have had some of my best games ever during this time, in all ship types (CV, BB, Cruiser, DD), at all tiers, including my best ever game of 407K.

You still hammer me damage wise AT, though I did have a 1k bxp game recently is Grozovoi.

Like I said; not really sure what’s being complained about with 2/7? But as I said; I’m basically a lone wolf anyway, so maybe that’s why the other human getting sunk usually doesn’t even register with me.

If anything, they might be in trouble expecting me to support them, when the odds are I won’t, unless they actually spawn close by.

Move up; kill red bots trying to ram green bots; use terrain the same as you would in any mode; use whatever general method is best for your ship and sink bots.

I know it works for some, but if I try to torp charge initially in a destroyer like some do, I just get sunk. I usually smoke farm until the initial charge is blunted, then move in and start torp ambushing. I do bum rush to torp, but only if the bot high RoF ships aren’t in support range, or are already sunk.

15 minutes ago, Singularity_invader said:

They'll shoot you to death even if you don't shoot at all, how are they going to miss their shots if you miss yours? That's ludicrous.

I don’t get why people say this either. If I’m in the open, especially in a DD, bots seem to go out of their way to shoot at me, even from the far side of the map it seems.

Making them miss seems to involve WASD more than some odd practice of ‘if you miss, they miss.’

I’m either not shooting at all, and am trying to go dark, or am shooting with the intent to hit. I don’t waste dpm.

[Slimeball91]

30 minutes ago, Singularity_invader said:

Try a 2 human team in a Varetas or Skane and see what happens, lol.

If I'm your teammate you'll win. Honest;y, these might be the weakest ships in the game for co-op, so its not fair to hold them up as examples.

31 minutes ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

The problem is green bots die too fast, and Fletcher DPM is not high enough when you have 3/4 ships against you.

You have a ton of experience so you probably know all this already.  Here are some thing that I found to help.  I have built my Fletcher for more of a torp build.  You can get the reload down to 93 seconds (I think).  That is really helpful since that will allow you to get two full sets of trops off in most games.  I also like to remind my self to avoid the temptation to fire both sets of torps at one ship, that keeps a set of torps available for the next target.  Most BBs will be taken out, or left with so little HP that you can quickly gun them down.  If you need the second set, be ready to fire them off quickly.  It can also be good to use wide spread torp salvos at close range to spread out the damage to help avoid saturation.

6 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Like I said; not really sure what’s being complained about with 2/7? But as I said; I’m basically a lone wolf anyway, so maybe that’s why the other human getting sunk usually doesn’t even register with me.

I'm like you, a lone wolf.  People with the thinking that they want support in co-op is strange to me.  

[Singularity_invader]

2 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

If I'm your teammate you'll win. Honest;y, these might be the weakest ships in the game for co-op, so its not fair to hold them up as examples.

Which is exactly my point: the results of 2-human-team battles are highly ship-dependent.

[Slimeball91]

Just now, Singularity_invader said:

Which is exactly my point: the results of 2-human-team battles are highly ship-dependent.

My point was the opposite.  You picked what are probably two of a hand of ships that have almost no carry potential.  All of the other ships, outside of that handful, have enough carry potential to pull out a win with little or no help from teammates.

[DrHolmes52]

55 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Personally I am loving the 2/7. More damage for me to farm plus 1 other human to help out if things go South. Have had some of my best games ever during this time, in all ship types (CV, BB, Cruiser, DD), at all tiers, including my best ever game of 407K.

This.  I have been raking up rewards in my JB (Georgia, Thunderer, etc).

Little iffy for two people when I'm driving the Yoshino and there are no human fat botes.  Just need to let the game develop and pick you spots.

It will get monotonous after a while.

[Orange_KGB_asset]

Two-human mode strikes me as a Hard difficulty setting. One-human as Extreme. Nine-human as Beginner difficulty. And so on until all the spaces in between are filled.