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Zaydin

Stop coddling DDs, WG

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Why were you alone in a BB facing down a DD? How well did you use your torpedo protection/Just Dodge™?

If a DD got close enough  to kill you from full health to dead in a single run, you earned that death. If you were beat up, and out of place why should a DD not dominate you? Would you post this complaint if you deleted a CL from 18km away that was alone, spotted, and out of position?

 

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The DD sap nerf was overdone. Apparently they were occasionally double dipping, an overpen with a standard pen from one shell, and instead figuring that out nerfed SAP against DD's to the point that often the AP does more damage.

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its not just the italian line ....dds are over protected ..wows over did it with that dazzle skill ..imo...dazzle skill should be removed 

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31 minutes ago, VeatherVitch said:

Why were you alone in a BB facing down a DD? How well did you use your torpedo protection/Just Dodge™?

If a DD got close enough  to kill you from full health to dead in a single run, you earned that death. If you were beat up, and out of place why should a DD not dominate you? Would you post this complaint if you deleted a CL from 18km away that was alone, spotted, and out of position?

 

I wasn't at full health; I was around half health. And the rest of my team ran off; the Marceau had been going after our CV but changed targets.

Why shouldn't DDs take heavy damage from Semi-Armor Piercing rounds from BBs? SAP was advertised as being highly effective against lightly armored targets. Italian BBs are borderline helpless against destroyers due to both their ammo types being capped to 10% of their max damage against destroyers coupled with even more useless than normal secondary guns. Combine that with poor accuracy and reload, you're lucky to hit a target the size of a DD. If you can hit them, why shouldn't that hit have impact to deter DDs from getting in close?

DDs have always been high risk, high reward ships. Against Italian BBs, it becomes low risk, high reward.

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I basically have to trip over a DD in a CV to actually SEE a DD.

Stuff like that is why you see 5 DDs a side...walls of skill...it's horrible. 

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When they capped BB AP damage on DD people said there would be a yolo apocalypse as DD would be able to just sail up to a BB and kill them with impunity. It didn't happen then and it's not going to happen now so stop being a chicken little.

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1 minute ago, Rouxi said:

When they capped BB AP damage on DD people said there would be a yolo apocalypse as DD would be able to just sail up to a BB and kill them with impunity. It didn't happen then and it's not going to happen now so stop being a chicken little.

The change prompted BBs to switch to HE against DDs to do more reliable damage with the bonus of also smashing the destroyers modules.

What option does an Italian BB have in this instance? Your SAP and AP do 1250 and 1200 damage, respectively, to destroyers. The bulk of your secondaries can't even damage DDs due to only having 15mm of pen.

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DD are the least forgiving type of ship to play.

Coddled?

Someone needs to play high tier DD and get back to us about being coddled with all of the radar and hydro in the high tiers. I didn't even mention the CV literally ruining everything DD are built around.

 

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14 hours ago, arch4random said:

.dds are over protected

either youre trolling or youve never been in high tiers, because CVs are by far the most protected, 5 second fires and floods, automatic DCP that lasts for like a minute, immune to being detonated, and practically immune to another CV dropping on them with their combo of a fighter squad that can be dropped from the plane squadron its using, the fighter squad that goes up when the ship gets spotted AND having its long range and medium range AA all having a 100% hit chance on the continuous damage

now read all of this, go play a high tier DD and come back and tell us, with a straight face, that DDs are "over protected", we'll wait

Edited by tcbaker777
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There is an argument to be made that BB SAP shells should deal more than overpen damage to DDs.

DDs being coddled though? Yeah, no. 

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They would have to fix double dipping for that to happen. This isn't an issue with DD's being overprotected but a refusal to fix game mechanics.

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28 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

There is an argument to be made that BB SAP shells should deal more than overpen damage to DDs.

DDs being coddled though? Yeah, no. 

This!   I do think BB SAP could be a bit more powerful as against DDs. Especially considering how few shells actually hit DDs from Italian BBs. 

 

 I do think its funny though. As a DD main I almost never have issues dealing with DDs when I am in a BB or a cruiser.  DDs are highly vulnerable and most often quickly dispatched. 

Edited by eviltane

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If only numbers between 0.1 and 0.33 existed, counting in St. Petersburg is apparently pretty hard.

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Dealing with a DD is very simple, always look for a radar buddy. Never go alone and travel in pairs or groups of three to increase your firepower should you spot a DD, and make sure one of the ship has hydro and/or radar. It also helps to not push in directly and avoid being a prime target so the DD won't come after you.  /s

On a serious note, DD susceptibility to BB caliber guns is weird. Sometimes you take very little damage, yet at times I got chunked very hard in my DD. Overall I would disagree though, DDs are definitely not the most coddled class as there is plenty of radar and hydro going around, not to speak of the eye in the sky.

But most of the threat a DD poses can be mitigated by situational awareness and positioning, plus actually shooting them at every opportunity.

 

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8 minutes ago, shinytrashcan said:

Dealing with a DD is very simple, always look for a radar buddy. Never go alone and travel in pairs or groups of three to increase your firepower should you spot a DD, and make sure one of the ship has hydro and/or radar. It also helps to not push in directly and avoid being a prime target so the DD won't come after you.  /s

On a serious note, DD susceptibility to BB caliber guns is weird. Sometimes you take very little damage, yet at times I got chunked very hard in my DD. Overall I would disagree though, DDs are definitely not the most coddled class as there is plenty of radar and hydro going around, not to speak of the eye in the sky.

But most of the threat a DD poses can be mitigated by situational awareness and positioning, plus actually shooting them at every opportunity.

 

I mean yea, but my other BBs actually pose a threat to a DD if loaded with HE, they can if more than one round hits take a huge chunk of its HP and break or outright destroy a bunch of modules on the DD.

SAP rounds of Italian BBs dont break modules, and they dont do much damage.

Which is funny, cause i love DD hunting in my Italian Cruisers, their SAP is brutal towards DDs. SAP on BBs was hit way to hard when it came to DDs, as others have said their secondaries are useless and they have long reloads with low accuracy. I  dont have any issues charging an italian BB when playing a destroyer, its helpless for the most part.

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15 hours ago, Zaydin said:

I wasn't at full health; I was around half health. And the rest of my team ran off; the Marceau had been going after our CV but changed targets.

Why shouldn't DDs take heavy damage from Semi-Armor Piercing rounds from BBs? SAP was advertised as being highly effective against lightly armored targets. Italian BBs are borderline helpless against destroyers due to both their ammo types being capped to 10% of their max damage against destroyers coupled with even more useless than normal secondary guns. Combine that with poor accuracy and reload, you're lucky to hit a target the size of a DD. If you can hit them, why shouldn't that hit have impact to deter DDs from getting in close?

DDs have always been high risk, high reward ships. Against Italian BBs, it becomes low risk, high reward.

So you were half dead, and out of position, yet somehow it's the OP DDs fault you died?

You didn't answer my question last time, so I'll ask it again. Would you feel the same if you were in a BB, and you deleted a half health CL that was spotted out of position from 18km away? It's the same situation, the ship was caught in a bad spot by it's counter, and suffered for it.

Why should BBs be less vulnerable when caught out of position by their counter than CL/CAs, or DDs? 

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16 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

I basically have to trip over a DD in a CV to actually SEE a DD.

Stuff like that is why you see 5 DDs a side...walls of skill...it's horrible. 

that will change if you drive a DD for a bit and see where they like to go.  The maps ARE only so big you know.

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16 hours ago, Rouxi said:

When they capped BB AP damage on DD people said there would be a yolo apocalypse as DD would be able to just sail up to a BB and kill them with impunity. It didn't happen then and it's not going to happen now so stop being a chicken little.

True but those BB's still had HE for the mains and secondaries. The RM BB's are functionally unable to counter a DD.

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17 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

True but those BB's still had HE for the mains and secondaries. The RM BB's are functionally unable to counter a DD.

To be honest I expect if Napoli's design isn't too broken and the ship makes it into the game as is, maybe SAP secondaries could be the solution to the issue.

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17 hours ago, VeatherVitch said:

were you alone in a BB facing down a DD?

Irrelevant, every encounter isn't a fleet action; be it early game or late game. The OP has a point and it's a very old one. DDs are too coddled; even from themselves.

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I'd be very curious to what the people that think DDs are are too cuddled are expecting?  DDs are unquestionably the hardest ship type to play, how much much harder do you think it should be? 

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7 minutes ago, Crokodone said:

Irrelevant, every encounter isn't a fleet action; be it early game or late game. The OP has a point and it's a very old one. DDs are too coddled; even from themselves.

I do love a classic DD whine, please let us all know where the bad DD touched you. 

 

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17 hours ago, Zaydin said:

Had a Marceau YOLOing me in the Lepanto. I hit him with four SAP rounds. Know how much damage I did to him?

5000 damage. From four SAP rounds. Either raise or remove the damage cap on BB SAP rounds entirely, WG, because if you don't the entire Italian BB line is effectively helpless against destroyers due to every tool they have against destroyers being awful. Both SAP and AP suck against DDs and their secondaries are useless even by secondary gun standards due to most of their secondary guns only having 15mm of pen when most DDs have 16mm hulls.

God knows you are even lucky to score hits with how bad the accuracy is on Italian BBs. At least let those rare hits actually have some impact.

DDs have to be coddled in order for them to be viable in a one vs one fight with cruisers or battleships.  The game forces force breakdowns and fights that would never have happened.

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