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AdmiralFlame76

Need tips on British CL line

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I do ok on both Leander and Fiji but I think I can do better with some good tips from you guys. All tips for British CL are welcome.

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Don't get spotted, if spotted don't get shot, if getting shot don't trade fire with ships with big guns, if trading fire watch out for unexpected shots on your broadside, even a DD can cit you. Play as a pseudo-DD. 

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Well I play them as oversized Dd's supporting them in their tasks. Remember your smoke firing penalties and remember to stop your secondaries in smoke. 

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Fiji is probably the peak of the line. Edin is just more of the same a tier higher and with a bigger cit. I’m having fun with Neptune but their is a lot of radar and dead eye to deal with. You have to play very careful. Support close in to assist kill DDs. Smoke up to area deny BB. Use terrain when possible. Do not open water gun boat unless it’s a last act of survival or you are going to KILL that DD and have a strong chance of getting away. Smoke is very strong but don’t forget to move in it and run hydro if you have ANY suspicion of torps. You can also use your hydro to charge a smoked and isolated DD. Kill the DD in the smoke and then use his smoke to hide from the inevitable incoming fire. It’s a really hard line to play but it’s really fun and rewarding. When you play well you will have a very strong effect on the game. Kill DDs, don’t be afraid to cap if you have smoke and no radar is around. Use terrain. You get a heal but it won’t matter if you get one shot killed by a dead eye DD. Good luck with it! Kill those DDs and harass the BBS! Also use your torps! They reload quick and you will often catch unsuspecting DDs that are playing on the edge of detection. Tier 9 you get 10k and x4 on each side. They are great for denial of certain channels and popular DD grounds.

Edited by Pirate_Named_Sue

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RNCLs demand an aggressive, forward playing style.  It can pay off big because it affects the DD and Cap game, but being forward a lot also invites a lot of risk.

 

Traditionally in the past, RNCLs played better by supporting DDs and the Cap game.  Be forward enough where you can easily engage DDs and shoot up reliably whatever is found in the caps.  But do not be forward enough where you're the first thing the reds regularly see.  RNCLs need to be the surprise enemy DDs get:  They don't see them first, but once they get spotted by aircraft, radar cruisers, destroyers, then they start taking deadly RNCL AP shells.  That is how they influence games, by affecting Caps and the DD situation.

 

Outside this capacity, they can do functions like simple CL spam to dissuade ships from pushing up.  The big difference from the RNCL Line to other normal HE spam CL Lines is that the former only have their special AP.  If you can get some broadside or near broadside shots, you can farm a good amount of damage.  The Tier VII+ RNCLs are really good at this because of the amount of guns they have, and Minotaur in Tier X is fast firing.  But a big problem with RNCL AP shells is that with most Cruisers you encounter as you climb the tiers, and of course Battleships, if they're sharply angled or bow on / coming right towards you, your shells are going to bounce.  Their extremities, deck armor, turret faces, conning towers are thickly armored and you won't Pen those sections.  So finding a place off to the flank, to get side shots will make RNCLs more effective.

However, getting to or being at the flanks can be dangerous.  Sometimes you'll have some very "personal" encounters out there with like-minded opponents trying to flank.

 

Cruisers tend to focus a lot on having Stealth Builds and RNCLs more than any other Cruiser Line live and die by Stealth Builds.  In general, they are the Stealthiest Cruiser Line in the game with Stealth Builds.  Some of these are really sneaky.  From Tier V on, Tier VI Leander, VIII Edinburgh, X Minotaur are very stealthy CLs, some even filling as "Pseudo DDs" to Stealth Cap when there aren't any DDs left.  Matter of fact, it is in that capacity that VI Leander makes a name for herself in Tier VI Ranked.

 

The RNCL Line has several hard counters.  If you got to Tier VII, OP, then you've already seen them.

1.  Poorly protected Citadels.  AP shells do bad things to Cruisers and RNCLs in particular can get hammered pretty hard.  Tier V and below, Tier IX-X in the Tech Tree are all extremely squishy.  Showing your sides to a Cruiser is a fatal mistake depending on the attacker in question and the range involved.   X Zao if given the chance, will take most of the HP away of a X RNCL Minotaur from full health.  People are used to seeing some of these RNCLs "get 1 shotted" that nobody is surprised anymore, except for the RNCL player.  Some of these DDs, if they feel good enough about their situation, can try sneaking to your sides an AP Citadel you.  High Tier FR DD 139mm guns have some really strong AP in terms of penetration.  The new German DDs have more powerful AP penetration from their 150mm guns, to include ZF-6 with her spiced up 128mm AP shells, coupled with special bounce angles.  Be aware.

 

2.  Battleships can rip you apart in a single salvo.  Battleships, especially if the BB can focus solely on an RNCL without much outside interference, is a dangerous opponent.  A decent BB player will know to narrow their profile against you so that your guns do almost nothing against them.  It's easier to account for your torpedoes.  If you're trading shells with a charging BB, it's only a matter of time before the BB lands a salvo that will wreck you.

 

3.  CVs.  CV ability to spot is a hard counter to stealth based gameplay.  Even in the RTS CV days I had to change the way I played my RNCLs.  There's very few of them that actually had decent AA, most have pretty junk AA.  My "game" as an RNCL in a normal game was to sneak around undetected near the caps, or sneaking somewhere off to the side.  A CV actively flying planes in my local area disrupts all those plans and forced me to play more conservatively.  If the CV is spotting you, then ships will be shooting at you.  Everyone knows how squishy RNCLs are, so they're looking for an easy payday when they're attacking you.  At least IX Neptune and X Minotaur used to have killer 8.6km AA range with an AA Build in the RTS CV days.  Not anymore.

 

RNCLs are pretty stealthy, they got smoke.  Remember that smoke provides concealment so the reds can't see you.  Concealment =/= Cover.  Cover can block attacks, Concealment makes it that it's harder to see where you're at to get more precise attacks.  People when they camp smoke often make the assumption that smoke acts as a shield stopping attacks.  It doesn't.  Smoke attracts torpedo attention.  Some more adventurous CV players will manually drop torpedoes into your small RNCL smoke pattern.  Some BB players have gotten real good in shooting at smoke camping RNCLs.  A trick to help them is they pop up Spotting Aircraft to better able to pick at a point from an elevated angle, guessing where you're at, and firing.  Also remember that if you're spamming your guns, the tracers work both ways.  Your opponents can use it to better estimate where you're at.

- When you're in smoke, I highly advise to always be moving, even in very low speeds.  If you're staying still, it becomes very easy to pick you out in your own smoke.

- Always have an exit plan for when your smoke expires or if you have to leave it in an emergency.  An island nearby to duck behind to block LOS to you is good.  Staying far back enough that if you leave your smoke and hold your gunfire, that you aren't spotted, that's good also.  When you leave your smoke, it's often because of an emergency situation, so it may be a good idea to withhold gunfire and showing the world where you're at.  Hold the gunfire, stay undetected while you consider your next moves without getting shot at by multiple guys.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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RN CLs are really just smoke-farmers for most of the line. From Tier VIII onwards you can play with Radar, but it's extremely risky as you trade off your smoke generator for the Radar Consumable, and being a squishy target as an RN CL, not to mention a very lucrative target, automatically puts you in the danger zone.

As for how you play them, situational awareness is of top priority. Keeping track of enemy Heavy Cruisers and Battleships ( and Large Cruisers besides ), where they are moving and where they might show up, allows you to predict in advance when you can engage and disengage from a fight. If you do find yourself in a hot situation, quickly assess how many radars can light you up. If there are any radars that can do so, do not smoke up and just continue to run. If there are no radars, you can safely smoke up and disengage.

- Potato

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I replay this line a lot.  Good solid ships all the way through to the top. One thing to keep in mind the ships become more fragile as you go up the line, so why play them?  Your DPM goes up very quickly after the Edi and the 10k torps are very nice starting with Edi.  Be aggressive and move in with your DDs.  Your a DD support ship and a BB damage farmer.  One very strong skill is NOT overrunning your smoke, sounds pretty simple to stay in your smoke, but it is amazing how many times player slows down too late and moves out of smoke, and the time your back in...well your not!   Start slowing down, get to half speed then hit smoke.  I take smoke enhancement skills and flags.  Beware of radar and hydro ships...you MUST be map aware at all times.  It is actually quite amazing to me how often I can be top scorer with my Edi... map, tier, radar, CVs all play a part in how good your game will be.  Less islands, more radar, CVs will make it much harder to get a good game.

The close in defense of the British T9/10 is very impressive.  Until you kill a charging BB with a wall of torps...well you haven't peaked out yet.  But remember you WILL get one shotted in your Nep or Mini... not if but when... don't get discouraged, happens to every one.   I have seen some impressive open water Mini players out there, that can run back and forth, raining down death and somehow stay alive...maybe someday I will have the balls to work on that strat.  (I don't think you can do the same in the Nep, or at least I have never seen it end well)

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Traditioinally, Tier VI-X is the solid part of the line.

VI Leander is super sneaky and a good jump up from V Emerald.

VII Fiji is fantastic.  Some players even go so far as to say she is the crown jewel of the line and not Minotaur.

VIII Edinburgh was doable, but I couldn't escape the fact I was playing Fiji v1.8 in Tier VIII.  Very sneaky.  Has the option of trading out Smoke -> Radar.

 

IX Neptune.  Personally I had a fantastic time with Neptune, but many didn't.  Compared to Leander, Fiji, Edinburgh, her Citadel is very high and exposed.  Also, of the High Tier RNCLs, her concealment stands out as it's worse in stealth than VIII Edinburgh and X Minotaur.  I did very well with her and I look at her fondly as one of the easiest Tier IX ship grinds I have ever done.  The grind was so nice that I completely forgot I had gotten the required XPs to research X Minotaur.  When I realized that, I played a few more games before unlocking Minotaur and transferred my Neps captain -> Mino.  Neptune features a lot of pretty fast firing guns.  

Another crucial detail with Neptune are her torpedoes.  VIII Edinburgh gets 9.9km fish and Neptune continues that.  But the big difference with Tier IX-X RNCLs in the Tech Tree is that you get the torpedo heavy loadouts that you once had with V Emerald.  Tier VI-VIII RNCLs in the Line have a mediocre amount of fish.  IX-X have a torp loadout of 4x4!  However, Stealth Torpedo tactics is only possible for Neptune only when kiting.  Trying to do aggressive torpedo attacks with the reds spotting at you, targeting you is a good recipe for getting rekt.  Neptune's concealment of 10.3km using Stealth Build doesn't support that when your torpedo range is 9.9km.  Radar Neptune (drop Smoke -> Radar) is extremely risky because her 10.3km stealth doesn't help her 10km radar build enough.  

 

X Minotaur.  As squishy as Neptune a tier before.  She has fewer guns than Neptune but she fires faster.  The real game changer for Minotaur is her concealment.  With Full Stealth Build, her concealment drops to 9km. Stealth Torpedo attacks are more feasible but you still have to be careful.  A rare few adventurous Minotaurs in the past did Radar Mino Builds:  Full Stealth Build, drop Smoke for Radar.  With 9km surface detection in Stealth Build and 10km Radar, she is a big problem to a DD that spots her.  If a DD spots a Radar Minotaur, it's too late, they're already 1km deep into her Radar range.  Minotaur is the better ship than Neptune, has more tactical options because of her Stealth that Neptune doesn't get.  But Minotaur is a Tier X ship and that is a very dangerous tier to be in, especially any Cruiser that needs to play forward to succeed.  I had a good time in Minotaur but it was stressful.  Statistically, I did better in the "worse" Neptune than I did in the "superior" Minotaur.

 

Tech Tree Radar Edinburgh and Minotaur are nasty surprises for DD players because few players actually do them.  Most are content with the safer feeling of having Smoke.  I tried Radar Minotaur but it was just too dangerous for me.  However, I have witnessed some do well with it.  It's just not my cup of tea.  Again, Tech Tree Radar RNCLs are so rare that they surprise a lot of players because of that.  Everyone automatically assumes you're using Smoke like 99% of the other RNCLs.

 

Also another pointer:  Tier IX-X RNCLs have the option to mount GFCS2 in Slot 6 that gives extra range.  Don't be like me in taking that upgrade.  I imagined Fiji, Edinburgh but with more range raining hell on people.  When I slotted GFCS2 on IX Neptune and tried to shoot at a distance, I was horrified with how slow the shells fell to earth.  A moving BB at a distance was a nightmare to try and hit.  I felt like I launched a bunch of flares into the night sky and they were parachuting down.  One game with GFCS2 Neptune was all it took, and I removed that upgrade on her as soon as the match was done.

It just further emphasizes that RNCLs are Cruisers designed specifically for short and intermediate range.  Long range Cruiser play?  Play another line.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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3 hours ago, AdmiralFlame76 said:

I do ok on both Leander and Fiji but I think I can do better with some good tips from you guys. All tips for British CL are welcome.

 

The best advice I can give is to immediately quit this line and focus on her sister line, the fire breathers.

This line is old now and was created well before the introduction of tons of new radar ships, more cv play, DD''s with hydro and longer torpedo range.  It also suffers now with the the smoke firing nerf, previously you needed to be with 2km or have hydro or radar to see it. This line is a complete relic.

If you are going to play it anyway, get to tier 8 and play them as radar, no smoke. Playing them as smoke won't get you anywhere as the game has changed to much since they came out.

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50 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

(I don't think you can do the same in the Nep, or at least I have never seen it end well)

Oh yes. "Super maneuverability" build (double ruder shift). The ending depends heavily on the range.

50 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

One very strong skill is NOT overrunning your smoke, sounds pretty simple to stay in your smoke, but it is amazing how many times player slows down too late and moves out of smoke, and the time your back in...well your not!   Start slowing down, get to half speed then hit smoke. 

Always hit the brakes full before  pop the smoke. After that, always make opposite rudder movement  It helps avoiding the incoming shells aimed at you and further slow you down. Never stop to a standstill, unless in smoke it takes a while until you start moving. Always watch the smoke counter and start moving before it ends.  

Edited by Bandi73
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I'm not sure why people say that the British CL line is no good anymore. At the Leander it starts getting fun and the ships just get better and better from there. The lack of HE isn't all that much of a factor, IMO, as the British AP shells can do well versus most anything. Sure, you will get a lot of bounces but the dozens (and, later, even hundreds) of pens you get will add up to some significant damage. And don't forget those torpedoes -- with the Minotaur you have 16 ten-kilometer range, single-firing torps at your disposal, plus a smoke generator, plus a hydro, and a low 9.1 km detection to boot if you use the right skills.

 

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5 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Don't get spotted, if spotted don't get shot, if getting shot don't trade fire with ships with big guns, if trading fire watch out for unexpected shots on your broadside, even a DD can cit you. Play as a pseudo-DD. 

Stick and move, use islands like armor. Use lizard style from Kung Fu. Open water is bad idea. Smoke is the get away option and not the sit and be cit target. DDs like to torpedo smoke. Run around rocks like your life depended on it. CLs are support. They are only chasing DDs when a DD is low HP, like 2 or 3 HP low. LOL

RN CLs can be pivotal late game, but you have to play very carefully. Take caps, be opportunistic. But don't think for one second you can 1v1 another ship open water. You are an ambush type. Think ninja. Keep the sword ready. 

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Another thing to use as an RNCL is if range and map permit it, camp islands and lob shells over them to hit targets.  If you can do this for a while in a match, it lets you deal damage and not use precious smoke consumables.  Save your smoke if you do have to be in open water or have to do an emergency bailout of an area.

 

However, do be careful camping islands in a CV match.  Your AA doesn't shoot through big islands blocking LOS to aircraft.  Also, some CV players will use those islands that you're hiding behind as a mask to sneak bombers into you.  If you're hugging an island, it also limits your freedom of movement.  In open water you got all compass directions to possibly use to evade.  If you were camping an island then you got something like half the compass points closed off for evasion.

 

Here is a May 2019 video of Eurobeat playing Enterprise.  Very early in the video Eurobeat attacks an island camping Moskva.  Surprising him and nailing him for Citadels.

- There is also a segment that starts at 6:30 in that video where Eurobeat sets up an Edinburgh to hit him with torpedoes in open water.  Something to watch for and learn from.

 

Be especially careful with AP Rocket capable CVs.  They go after Cruisers a lot.  CLs with their thin armor belts are in particular more vulnerable to them.  Hipper-class CA is annoying to get Citadels with AP Rockets, but CLs?  They're big money for that type of ordnance.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 hours ago, Bandi73 said:

 

Always hit the brakes full before  pop the smoke. After that, always make opposite rudder movement  It helps avoiding the incoming shells aimed at you and further slow you down. Never stop to a standstill, unless in smoke it takes a while until you start moving. Always watch the smoke counter and start moving before it ends.  

ahhh good point, got tons of games in, but never though about moving the rudder... thanks!

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Lots of good advice here.  This is the line which REALLY taught me this game.  I learned angling. Smoke management.  Moving in smoke.  Managing detectability.  Choosing engagement.  Smart positioning.  Target selection.  Sooooo many fundamentals.   Such a good line to learn them in.  
 

Comp.  #WV44

 

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10 hours ago, AdmiralFlame76 said:

I do ok on both Leander and Fiji but I think I can do better with some good tips from you guys. All tips for British CL are welcome.

Strongly suggest you get the Superintendent Commander Skill for these two ships if you don't already. More smoke, heal, and hydro can come in useful.

Get the rudder shift module and skill on Fiji if possible. She handles very well, I don't worry about dodging red torps, even from aircraft, Tues are quick enough to dodge most.

Leander excels in the current Scenarios now, smoke up to break Bots targeting you, and citadel the cruisers as they show broadsides.

Fiji is a smoked up DDs worst nightmare. If there are no other red ships in threat range I always charge their smoke and pop hydro about 8-10 km away, in case they launch torps. Hydro finds them in the smoke, and all those guns do the rest.

Others have covered how NOT to play these two ships, once you adjust to their faults they are a lot of fun.

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