New players should not see carrier for at least 300 games.

[Cit_the_bed]

If wargaming wants to retain players, they should not encounter carriers until they have at least the basics. Set a barrier, say 300 games until carriers enter their battle que and many will stick around.

I know several people who were happy until they hit carriers and stopped playing.

[AdmiralThunder]

3 minutes ago, Cit_the_bed said:

If wargaming wants to retain players, they should not encounter carriers until they have at least the basics. Set a barrier, say 300 games until carriers enter their battle que and many will stick around.

I know several people who were happy until they hit carriers and stopped playing.

So they play 300 games, then see them, and quit anyway? Not being a jerk about it either. May as well just get it over with at the start. IF they are going to quit because of CV's they will quit whether they see them right off or after 1000 games. IMO it would be better to learn to play against them (get used to them if you prefer) than coddle them for an extended period. It's part of the game so learn about it with all the rest of the "basics". JMHO.

[CAPT_CORNHOLIO]

They aren't hit with just one CV. You go from zero straight into 2 CV battles more often with ships that have no AA defense.

 

[AnimaL21]

So we could play guaranteed carrier-free by deleting account and creating new every 300 games?  Sounds like a plan!   lol  

[SilverPhatShips]

Meh

they should just have them right away let them figure out sooner than later that it's game breaking and no fun to play against.

[GRIMLOCK__]

18 minutes ago, Cit_the_bed said:

If wargaming wants to retain players, they should not encounter carriers until they have at least the basics. Set a barrier, say 300 games until carriers enter their battle que and many will stick around.

I know several people who were happy until they hit carriers and stopped playing.

Why, some of my best friends used to be happy in this game....

 

 

[Reymu]

That's A) assuming the CV they face knows his ship well and how to compensate for dodges and B) every red CV is out to hunt them.

Neither of which is necessarily the case. I've done some XP grinding on and off past 2 weeks working on EU and French DD lines (t1-5) as well as starting the RB regrind on French cruisers and starting the Italian cruiser line. Barely 10% of my matches there see the CV nail me good since I Just Dodge^TM

Something like a Corbet or Wyoming, sure, you'll struggle to dodge the TB, but if CV knows his business. Most low-tier matches seem to end within 10 minutes anyway, which isn't a lot of time for T4/6 CV to bother the entire enemy team.

Course, do sigh audibly if the T8 CV gets interested in my T6 Andre or LG, but just shrug and make him work to nail me--and like a true WOWS professional, joke about how planes can be fatal if they gun their engines above my smokestacks

[Morpheous]

Remove CVs from the game, a simple and elegant solution.

[Tokamak_Raven]

Better solution:

Players should not see any CVs until they have at least 1 CV in port.

[Burnsy]

1 hour ago, Morpheous said:

Remove CVs from the game, a simple and elegant solution.

Is it?  What happens to the $300-$400 I have in premium CVs? 
 

[Nachoo31]

2 hours ago, Cit_the_bed said:

If wargaming wants to retain players, they should not encounter carriers until they have at least the basics. Set a barrier, say 300 games until carriers enter their battle que and many will stick around.

I know several people who were happy until they hit carriers and stopped playing.

Torpedoes themselves had my brother not playing.

[Jakob_Knight]

This is entirely up to and under the control of the player. If they wish to avoid facing CVs before playing 300 games, they have only to limit their play to T1 and T2 games until they have the number of games under their belt to feel ready. No one is forced to advance in this game unless they wish to.

 

However, I wouldn't stop a player who felt they were ready to step up to the next level of play and get more into the full game by denying them the decision.

 

I also think it would be even worse, on their 301st game, for them to suddenly be faced with T8+ CVs when they haven't even faced T4 CVs. That would be an even more certain way to have people decide WOWS is not for them.

 

 

[El2aZeR]

29 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

Is it?  What happens to the $300-$400 I have in premium CVs?

Same as what happened with RTS CVs I suppose. Refund in doubloons, except this time it isn't optional.

If nothing else T4 CVs should be removed altogether. There is practically nothing you learn for CV play at that tier to begin with anyway, heck for the most part T4 is more likely to teach you bad habits instead. Swapping a bit of alpha for better sustain on T6 should be sufficient to make that a far better entry and training tier.

[Burnsy]

14 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Same as what happened with RTS CVs I suppose. Refund in doubloons, except this time it isn't optional.

If nothing else T4 CVs should be removed altogether. There is practically nothing you learn for CV play at that tier to begin with anyway, heck for the most part T4 is more likely to teach you bad habits instead. Swapping a bit of alpha for better sustain on T6 should be sufficient to make that a far better entry and training tier.

What happens to people who purchased Frieslands, Kidds and Austins, specifically to tear up CV planes?  If no CV planes exist, how does WG determine who actually bought them for the AA, which is now completely useless, to also compensate them?  AA was one of the advertised selling points of those surface ships.  Not to mention that some of them, could be purchased with more than one currency, both cash and in game.

What if the people who spent a bunch of money on CVs, didn't want to spend that money on anything else, in the game? 

My point is that "remove CVs" is not anywhere near...simple.

[BrushWolf]

2 hours ago, CAPT_CORNHOLIO said:

They aren't hit with just one CV. You go from zero straight into 2 CV battles more often with ships that have no AA defense.

 

This is why there should be an AA refit to the no/low AA, tier 3 & 4 ship so they have enough AA to make the CV players consider the plane losses they will take. Once players get to tier 5 most of the ships have enough AA to make the CV players to think about their own losses and the rate of two CV's per team starts dropping quickly.

[CruiserSailor]

3 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

So they play 300 games, then see them, and quit anyway? Not being a jerk about it either. May as well just get it over with at the start. IF they are going to quit because of CV's they will quit whether they see them right off or after 1000 games. IMO it would be better to learn to play against them (get used to them if you prefer) than coddle them for an extended period. It's part of the game so learn about it with all the rest of the "basics". JMHO.

That's pretty much the case. Both guys I've "recruited" quit as soon as they hit Tier 3 and got their Kawachis and South Carolinas swarmed with Hosho cancer. I tried to get them to stick to Co-op like me, but they like PvP games. Oh well.

[AlcatrazNC]

I assume new player play in low tier and not high tier.

 

Giving new player a 300 battle CV free experience does not solve the issue of T4 CV having no counterplay and just being automatic damage dealer. And this is assuming people will be patient enough to grind through T4-T5. Once you hit T6, you either get destroyed by T6 CV or T8 CV or both at the same time. If anything I am glad I started playing waaay back before the CV rework. Now I have a developped account, ships I want to play and I can just ignore mid tier. Until WG changes CV, all I can say is good luck to new players who just start their T6 grind

[Snargfargle]

3 hours ago, Cit_the_bed said:

I know several people who were happy until they hit carriers and stopped playing.

A lot of people look for an excuse to quit anything that might be the slightest bit challenging, that's just their nature.

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, Burnsy said:

AA was one of the advertised selling points of those surface ships.

This argument didn't hold any water with the introduction of the rework, outright murdering the AA of many premiums advertised as "AA ships", so it doesn't do so now.

The ships generally also do fine without CVs in the match precisely because CVs have been an afterthought for years and in many ways still are. AA power is no longer a balancing factor, it is a gimmick.

 

2 hours ago, Burnsy said:

What if the people who spent a bunch of money on CVs, didn't want to spend that money on anything else, in the game? 

Well, those players will just have to suck it up then I guess? Just like RTS CV players who wanted a cash refund but could at best only choose doubloons.

It is actually that simple. There is a precedence, so we just follow it.

 

46 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

A lot of people look for an excuse to quit anything that might be the slightest bit challenging, that's just their nature.

That somehow implies it is a challenge instead of a broken mechanic.

[SilverPhatShips]

I mean truly the new player should get the full experience right away.

They should have one or two player flying around in a hot air balloon each side at T1. 

 That select player gets to drop a Bomb every minute.  If that select player hits, it always causes a fire or citadel depending on which nation is playing.  This select player cannot be stopped and will wander the map and spot wherever they wants to.

[Burnsy]

15 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

This argument didn't hold any water with the introduction of the rework, outright murdering the AA of many premiums, so it doesn't do so now.

The ships generally also do fine without CVs in the match precisely because CVs have been an afterthought for years and in many ways still are. AA power is no longer a balancing factor, it is a gimmick.

 

Well, those players will just have to suck it up then I guess? Just like RTS CV players who wanted a cash refund but could at best only choose doubloons.

It is actually that simple. There is a precedence, so we just follow it.

But, there is no precedence to follow.  WG offered an optional refund because they changed the class's playstyle into something completely different.  Offering a second optional refund would be following a precedent.  A forced removal of a ship from player's hands has been done, but not since the game has been out of beta.  There is no precedent for that in the released version of of the game.

If WGs stance on things was to take away premium ships that they think are bad for the game, from players who paid for them.....CVs would certainly be far from the only ones on that list that people would start screaming about.  That's a can of worms that once opened, is much larger than just CVs.

At any rate, WG just released a brand new T10 CV.  Signs that anything like the suggestion is going to happen, any time soon at least, all point to no.

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Burnsy said:

But, there is no precedence to follow.  WG offered an optional refund because they changed the class's playstyle into something completely different.  Offering a second optional refund would be following a precedent.

Again, just make the refund mandatory. It'd be a slight change and still follow what has previously been established.

 

1 hour ago, Burnsy said:

At any rate, WG just released a brand new T10 CV.  Signs that anything like the suggestion is going to happen, any time soon at least, all point to no.

But ofc, this is all hypothetical.

[Burnsy]

18 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Again, just make the refund mandatory. It'd be a slight change and still follow what has previously been established.

 

The mandatory removal of paid for premium ships from player's accounts, would be a "slight change"? 

[El2aZeR]

15 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

The mandatory removal of paid for premium ships from player's accounts, would be a "slight change"?

No, that there is no choice but to accept the doubloon refund would be.

[Skpstr]

5 hours ago, CAPT_CORNHOLIO said:

They aren't hit with just one CV. You go from zero straight into 2 CV battles more often with ships that have no AA defense.

 

Or you buy a T8+ premium and skip that part entirely lol.