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Admiral_Hippo

Russian Navy

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Anyone know of a surface engagement involving Russian ships in WW2. I dont.

Thanks for all your responses.

Edited by Admiral_Hippo
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The Russian navy was a complete non-entity in WW2.

Bottled up in the Black Sea.

Northern assets constrained by limited range and few ocean going combat ships.

Main fleet at Vladivostok wasted as the Russians were too scared of the Japanese to actually help in the Pacific or even declare war on Japan.

Yeah, I get that Russia’s focus was the land war with Germany.  But still...her navy was wasted.

Sorry, WG, but your focus on Russian ships and their depiction in this game is just ridiculously overblown.  

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The Russian Navy fought even more than some other Nations.

My source is "War at Sea" from Author Nathan Miller. There is also a War at Sea II which looks at the Japanese side in the same detail or greater than was examining all other Nations.

The Russian Naval Wars were so intense. it makes me shed a tear or two as i might on difficult bad days in trucking that demands everything to be safe in life threatening conditions. I remember one situation where Russia (The Soviet Union) went ahead and poured enough concrete into old merchant hulls called them Speerbreachers. They go ahead first. Detonate mines 30 feet apart to try and get everyone out past Denmark. On the following ships of which were about 180+ of all kinds were about the human count of one Corps (About 90,000 military escaping a three sided German Seige) and another 150,000 civilians and all kinds without regard to names, lists, quals or any of that. They set sail under hordes of Destroyers and whatever other combat ships that they could beat the rust off long enough to load a few rounds and raise steam to sail. One destroyer had standing room only on her decks for evacuaees. They were trying to do what we did at Dunkirk for 300,000 over 30 miles in less than a week, and trying to do it over 300 miles in half a day. THAT destroyer endured about 94 Stuka attacks from the sky. the 95th summarily sunk it. Hero of the Soviet Union Unit Citation and part of their Immortals forever. The German artillery set one of the major forests on fire trying to sink these ships. But they were so committed to making sure that Russia was defeated to continue shooting regardless of he fire situation. Some old Russian Ships won glory for themselves, by all rights should be museum storys but no they were up there in Ammuntion and shooting with some skill and success.

A side note. We evacuated about 500 to 600,000 the late morning of 9-11 across the water into New Jersey. We delivered a few maxed out loads of medicines the next day there regardless of Expense. Linfield Connectitut at one time had almost 10 billion in medicine on hand for NYC under McKesson in those days. Nothing was spared.

Winter came along. Germany just hitched horses and trucks to the mines towed onto the ocean ice. Cut holes 20 feet apart and dropped them in ready for spring fighting to come. Again. And again and again.

The German tastes and skills evolved in that fighting gave the Allies a very tough time in Walchern Island and other coastal battle problems from roughly Bremen in towards interior Germany by her rivers near the Baltic Sea and English Channels. Fretches Haff was another problem. The French tried to do the same thing invading Russia at Riga in about the 1840's But Russia simply left Moscow and let the French sit on a surrender that they will never get. The russian winter took care of the rest in due time. Same with the Germans. They did not have good witner gear which was a oversight that cost them everything. Not to mention Hitler's incessant bumbling around Stalingrad when oceans of Iranian Oil was 8 hours drive overland to be captured and used forever and ever by Germany. Mistakes were made.

Oh yes the Russian Navy fought.

Edited by xHeavy
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A part two. Some of you cannot resist giving WG a hard time about the Russian Ships or whatever else in Battle within the game world.

My suggestion is that if you are so tied up in knots over a fantasy game product using ships that could have been and some dating to the 50's era for purposes of world war two video game that is itself arcadey, perhaps a small break and taking up of something else that is more peaceful might make you a happier person by Summertime. ITs going to be a long year being so upset over things you were not a part of when they make decisions to build or not build ships for the game.

If you think all that is upsetting now wait until you get eyefuls of Russian Carriers.

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38 minutes ago, Admiral_Hippo said:

Anyone know of a surface engagement involving Russian ships in WW2. I dont.

To be fair, there were numerous small-scale actions in the Baltic and Black Seas.

Not Russia's fault there were no large-scale engagements. There was no reason for the Axis to send major units anywhere that the Russians needed to deal with them, and no reason for the Russians to make extended sorties looking for trouble.

I'm curious though, why are you singling out the Russians, and not mentioning Sweden or the PA nations?

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23 minutes ago, xHeavy said:

A part two. Some of you cannot resist giving WG a hard time about the Russian Ships or whatever else in Battle within the game world.

My suggestion is that if you are so tied up in knots over a fantasy game product using ships that could have been and some dating to the 50's era for purposes of world war two video game that is itself arcadey, perhaps a small break and taking up of something else that is more peaceful might make you a happier person by Summertime. ITs going to be a long year being so upset over things you were not a part of when they make decisions to build or not build ships for the game.

If you think all that is upsetting now wait until you get eyefuls of Russian Carriers.

Heavy the dude wrote  1 sentence.  You replied with 2 emotionally laden posts.  I think you are the one who is tied up in knots over this and  will be having a long year. 

Edited by eviltane
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---- double post , if I could delete this one I would----- 

Edited by eviltane

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The Glorious Soviet naval victories are not well known for two reasons: 1. Glorious Soviet secrecy prevented the disclosure on their side, and 2. Due to the extreme range of their superior advanced radar and the lethal accuracy and total destructiveness of their guns and the near-impervious armor of their ships, no enemy were left alive to tell the tale. 

Do svidaniya.

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39 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

To be fair, there were numerous small-scale actions in the Baltic and Black Seas.

Not Russia's fault there were no large-scale engagements. There was no reason for the Axis to send major units anywhere that the Russians needed to deal with them, and no reason for the Russians to make extended sorties looking for trouble.

I'm curious though, why are you singling out the Russians, and not mentioning Sweden or the PA nations?

We didn't get a Swedish line before the British, we got a Russian line though. And the ones you listed are a mix of ships from various nations. But WG treats the Russians as if they were one of the big navies of WWII with full lines being some of the first released. Personally I'm fine with Russian ships, but WG tends to WAY overhype the Russian navy.

Also, the reason the Axis didn't send major units anywhere the Russians needed to deal with them was because the Russians didn't have any major fleet units of their own. There were no large scale engagements because the Russians didn't have any large scale units. It's not like the Russians had a big fleet sitting around and just never had the chance to use it, they weren't involved significantly in the naval war because they didn't really have much of a navy. The Russians had other priorities (and it didn't help that Stalin had, ah, removed most of the senior officers). If the Russians had had major units they would have had major engagements. But they didn't, so the Axis ignored them navally. There's a reason the Allies were the ones running escort on the Artic convoys.

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1 hour ago, xHeavy said:

Some of you cannot resist giving WG a hard time about the Russian Ships or whatever else in Battle within the game world.

Provocation is OP's game plan.

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

Personally I'm fine with Russian ships, but WG tends to WAY overhype the Russian navy.

On that score, it's sort of hilarious that although the Pan-Asian DD tree is by its very nature a list of second-hand ships, it actually existed in steel at Tier 10. T1(?), T2 and T5 are the only paper, and even they are derivations of ships that were actually built in steel.

The Russian Navy's glory days for capital ships were in the 19th Century, and all that came to an abrupt halt in 1905. The Japanese got where they were by not being too proud to admit they couldn't do it all themselves; their battlefleet was essentially British, and their ethos was consciously imported from there too.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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5 hours ago, Sabene said:

Sorry, WG, but your focus on Russian ships and their depiction in this game is just ridiculously overblown.  

Why is it difficult to accept that a Russian game gives focus to Russian content? ... US games also gives focus to US content, just imagine every other WW2 period game not including US forces in the vanilla version but until expansion packs and DLCs. You pander to your core market, what's strange about that?

Edited by ArIskandir

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2 hours ago, Skpstr said:

To be fair, there were numerous small-scale actions in the Baltic and Black Seas.

Not Russia's fault there were no large-scale engagements. There was no reason for the Axis to send major units anywhere that the Russians needed to deal with them, and no reason for the Russians to make extended sorties looking for trouble.

I'm curious though, why are you singling out the Russians, and not mentioning Sweden or the PA nations?

Because russia bad, man! russia bad!

 

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31 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Why is it difficult to accept that a Russian games gives focus to Russian content? ... US games also gives focus to US content, just imagine every other WW2 period game not including US forces in the vanilla version but until expansion packs and DLCs. You pander to your core market, what's strange about that?

I don't think many people realize that CIS is the largest market for this game, with more than a million active players.

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46 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

We didn't get a Swedish line before the British, we got a Russian line though.

There were issues with getting the plans for RN ships.

Besides, it makes sense. If you put all your real stuff out first, you end up like WoT, with all the "real" vehicles heavily powercreeped, and you are very early on reduced to releasing nothing but paper.

46 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

And the ones you listed are a mix of ships from various nations.

None of which ever had a navy as prolific as Russia's, even if you combine all the nations and only count real ships.

46 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

But WG treats the Russians as if they were one of the big navies of WWII with full lines being some of the first released.

I think part of the problem is the assumption that the "big navies" of WW2 should all be the first released. For which I've posted counterpoints at the top.

46 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Also, the reason the Axis didn't send major units anywhere the Russians needed to deal with them was because the Russians didn't have any major fleet units of their own. There were no large scale engagements because the Russians didn't have any large scale units. It's not like the Russians had a big fleet sitting around and just never had the chance to use it, they weren't involved significantly in the naval war because they didn't really have much of a navy. The Russians had other priorities (and it didn't help that Stalin had, ah, removed most of the senior officers). If the Russians had had major units they would have had major engagements. But they didn't, so the Axis ignored them navally. There's a reason the Allies were the ones running escort on the Artic convoys.

45 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

 

Actually, (and I just found this out) the real reason (in the Baltic anyway) is because every port except Kronstadt and Leningrad were overrun, and those two ports were extremely heavily mined, which means no need for the KM to be there, because the Russian ships couldn't leave port.

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35 minutes ago, Singularity_invader said:

I don't think many people realize that CIS is the largest market for this game, with more than a million active players.

I don't think it's so much that they don't realise it, but that it shouldn't matter, because where they live is the centre of their universe.

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2 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

I don't think it's so much that they don't realise it, but that it shouldn't matter, because where they live is the centre of their universe.

We're all the same because everyone wants to be special. But when everyone is special, no one is.

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4 minutes ago, Singularity_invader said:

We're all the same because everyone wants to be special. But when everyone is special, no one is.

Don't remind me.

It's hard to deprogram my daughter. It wouldn't be difficult if I just espoused a completely opposite view.

But I'm trying to implant the idea that you can be special, with desire and effort, but it's not by default.

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1 minute ago, Skpstr said:

Don't remind me.

It's hard to deprogram my daughter. It wouldn't be difficult if I just espoused a completely opposite view.

But I'm trying to implant the idea that you can be special, with desire and effort, but it's not by default.

My point is Russians are no better than Americans when it comes to patriotic vanity, and vice versa.

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1 hour ago, Singularity_invader said:

We're all the same because everyone wants to be special. But when everyone is special, no one is.

We are the short bus variety. Common, overblown and loud.

Thank god it was a really short bus. Eliminates most of the hoity toity in the back of the big ones.

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1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

I don't think it's so much that they don't realise it, but that it shouldn't matter, because where they live is the centre of their universe.

Sure, and every WWII infantry game shouldn't focus on a lantern jawed American farm boy, and yet they pretty much all do.  For the same reason.

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28 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

Sure, and every WWII infantry game shouldn't focus on a lantern jawed American farm boy, and yet they pretty much all do.  For the same reason.

Exactly. You cater to your biggest market.

Which is why nobody should be surprised or disappointed that Russian ships feature so heavily in-game.

Edited by Skpstr

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1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

Don't remind me.

It's hard to deprogram my daughter. It wouldn't be difficult if I just espoused a completely opposite view.

But I'm trying to implant the idea that you can be special, with desire and effort, but it's not by default.

That whole "you are special" thing is tricky indeed. With my daughter I'm focusing on the twist that she is "special to us" (me and wife) but otherwise she has to compete for her place in the outside world in equal footing with everyone else, if she aspires to be "special" for other people, she has to earn it. 

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