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WM1957

Flandre?

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How good is this Battleship? I play mostly Co-op.

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2 minutes ago, WM1957 said:

How good is this Battleship? I play mostly Co-op.

Coop I think it’s a hoot. Full meme brawl / secondary build and screw the conceal. For randoms, obviously not ideal and it’s probably a pretty average battle ship when utilized with a survival build. It’s as close to a Mass as the French are likely going to get. I’ve played about 30 battles in coop with it and have roughly 125k average. Usually a third to half of that comes from secondaries and fires. I run IFHE plus pyro, but if you are playing exclusively coop you can probably get away fine with out and just light the world on fire. 

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1 hour ago, Pirate_Named_Sue said:

Coop I think it’s a hoot. Full meme brawl / secondary build and screw the conceal. For randoms, obviously not ideal and it’s probably a pretty average battle ship when utilized with a survival build. It’s as close to a Mass as the French are likely going to get. I’ve played about 30 battles in coop with it and have roughly 125k average. Usually a third to half of that comes from secondaries and fires. I run IFHE plus pyro, but if you are playing exclusively coop you can probably get away fine with out and just light the world on fire. 

I REALLY wanted the ship...a lot.  I did a lot of testing with my Alsace and JB though, with secondary builds and I just couldn't seem to make it work.  I tried both IFHE and the let's BBQ everything approach but when looking at what the secondaries actually did in the battle results....I am still having trouble justifying it.

Tonight is the last night it is for sale as far as I know, maybe you can swing me, what are you doing to get up to a half of your damage, from your secondaries?  The Alsace should be a good ship to try to replicate it with correct?

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1 hour ago, Pirate_Named_Sue said:

Coop I think it’s a hoot. Full meme brawl / secondary build and screw the conceal. For randoms, obviously not ideal and it’s probably a pretty average battle ship when utilized with a survival build. It’s as close to a Mass as the French are likely going to get. I’ve played about 30 battles in coop with it and have roughly 125k average. Usually a third to half of that comes from secondaries and fires. I run IFHE plus pyro, but if you are playing exclusively coop you can probably get away fine with out and just light the world on fire. 

Thanks for sharing your review.  It was informative.

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1 hour ago, WM1957 said:

How good is this Battleship? I play mostly Co-op.

I recently welcomed the Alsace to my Port.

I like her in co-op.  And she's remarkably willing to ram other vessels in random battles (and sometimes she survives!).

As always, try not to allow one's broadside to be hit by the opposition.  Other than that, the hull is pretty "tanky".

I don't have the Flandre.  She's got some appeal, but I don't have the doubloons to spare and I have her sister already.
If the Flandre arrives by chance via a loot-crate, I won't complain, eh?

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Quote

If deemed necessary, balance changes may be applied to Flandre.

 

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13 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

I REALLY wanted the ship...a lot.  I did a lot of testing with my Alsace and JB though, with secondary builds and I just couldn't seem to make it work.  I tried both IFHE and the let's BBQ everything approach but when looking at what the secondaries actually did in the battle results....I am still having trouble justifying it.

Tonight is the last night it is for sale as far as I know, maybe you can swing me, what are you doing to get up to a half of your damage, from your secondaries?  The Alsace should be a good ship to try to replicate it with correct?

I don’t know how well I can sway you. I wasn’t aware it was being pulled for sale so soon either. I could have lived without it quite easily, it’s a fun brawler but 100s will always be 100s even with IFHE. Compare that to a mass where you could spent those commander skill points on something else. I’d take it again if I had a nice coupon to go with it. I don’t think I’d drop $50 on it again. 

it is absolutely an Alsace’s secondary battery (plus 1 gun and a tier lower). It’s the tier lower that got me, that and I really loved Alsace. Fifty bucks is a lot on a video game, but it’s also the equivalent of a few decent drinks at a bar. 🤷‍♂️

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7 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

 

Yup that little tid bit too. It’s not anywhere near OP I can’t imagine it being nerfed. 🤣🤷‍♂️ But who knows. WG can be sketchy, know where you are putting your cash. 

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Flandre has 14 secondary battery guns of 100mm size.
Alsace has 12 of the same.

Alsace is tier-9, with a few extra consumables.  Flandre is tier-8 with minimal consumables.

As @Pirate_Named_Sue points out, they're fun in co-op.

 

6 minutes ago, Pirate_Named_Sue said:

Yup that little tid bit too. It’s not anywhere near OP I can’t imagine it being nerfed. 🤣🤷‍♂️ But who knows. WG can be sketchy, know where you are putting your cash. 

:Smile_honoring:

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I have a tin foil hat conspiracy theory about the Flandre and that "we can change it" disclaimer.
 

I think it's going to be on nearly every new premium ship moving forward.  I think they know that it is an ok premium, but isn't near OP and WG choose it specifically to be the first one to have the disclaimer.  It was not happenstance.  My theory states that they plan on buffing it, to then say "see...it goes both ways, we can fix things now" as an olive branch and show of good faith about the new disclaimer, out of the gate.

My tin foil hat conspiricy theory doesn't go so far as to say that this ship was designed specifically as the first one for the disclaimer, but that it was specifically chosen, and the first change is going to be buff.

This tin foil hat conspiracy theory is part of why I still want it.....and I love Alsace.

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4 hours ago, WM1957 said:

How good is this Battleship? I play mostly Co-op.

Since this is Co-Op we're talking:

 

Flandre should be pretty decent compared to her peers in Tier VIII FR BBs.  For reference, Fitting Tool links Tech Tree Richelieu, Premium BBs Flandre, Gascogne, and Champagne.

TLDR:

Flandre - If you want a beefier hull and better set of secondaries compared to other FR BBs this tier, this is your choice.

Richelieu & Gascogne - Faster firing main battery but less HP.

Champagne - Long range capability above all else, especially if you still do PVP a little.  Much stronger guns and good accuracy, but a lot less HP.

 

More in depth:

Spoiler

 

+ Way more HP.

+ More Secondary guns.  Only Champagne in Tier VIII matches the amount of secondary guns she has, but Flandre's version of 100mm guns fire higher velocity shells and reload at 3 seconds instead of Champagne's 4.

+ Same 380mm guns as most of her French BB peers.

+/- Gascogne has less 100mm guns than Flandre but 2 of her 152mm turrets are mounted on the front.  But Flandre has more secondary guns.

+ All these BBs are roughly the same speed, within the 32-34 knots bracket.

- 1 less Repair Party charge.  For short Co-Op games, which is the vast majority of the time, this will not be an issue.

- Lackluster consumables selection.  Richelieu has Engine Boost.  Gacogne, Champagne not only have Engine Boost but Spotting Aircraft access.  However, Co-Op is brawling 90% of the time, so lack of Spotting Aircraft is only an issue real late in the game when taking potshots at the bot CV in the back.

- Significantly slower reload than any of her peers here.  Flandre has 33 seconds reload, which for a Tier VIII is pretty dang mediocre.  IX Alsace has about the same, but she has access to Slot 6 MBM3 to speed it up.  Flandre doesn't have that luxury, so she's stuck with 33 seconds.  Richelieu has 25.2 seconds reload, Gascogne has 23.82 seconds.  Gascogne reloads about 10 seconds faster than Flandre for 1 less gun.

- 1.8 Sigma is passable, though Gascogne has 1.9.

- The bulk of their secondaries are 100mm guns with a mere 17mm HE Pen.  You are not going to harm too much with them, not with such low HE Pen.  The two possibilities with French 100mm secondaries are

A) Live with it and pray they set fires

or

B) Get IFHE for Secondaries and be able to HE Pen High Tier DD hulls and High Tier BB Superstructures, but hurt your main and secondary HE shell fire chance.

EDIT:  For PVE I still have my very old IFHE Secondaries Build on Tier IX Alsace.  I get the better pens to damage High Tier DDs, etc.  Despite the gutted Fire Chance, Alsace still gets a lot of fires.  Why?  Because she has many 100mm guns firing.  Flandre has the same Secondary Battery as Alsace, it's just the range isn't as long as Alsace's and missing 4 100mm guns, which is still way more than Gascogne and Richelieu.  Range, reload, shell damage, dispersion, etc.  It's the exact same as Alsace, just less range.

 

The big difference is between Flandre and Champagne.  Flandre is a "traditional" BB and likes to fight like one.  The closer the better.  Champagne is more range oriented, the guns are powerful, accurate, and actually fire faster than the smaller guns of Flandre.  Champagne will do trick shots for you with your salvos.  By having 406mm guns, that brings significant Overmatch advantages than 380mm AP shells.  Flandre has a huge HP advantage over Champagne.  Flandre has better extremity armor than Champagne.  The latter is built by WG in the "Slava" style as a longer range oriented BB with thinner extremities.  I brawl with my Champagne a lot in Co-Op, I use angling because her mid section, armor belt, etc. is still built like a Richelieu-class hull.  It's just the extremities are thinner and you cannot bow tank like you would Flandre, Richelieu, etc.  When brawling using Champagne, I just have to do it a bit more careful, use angling tactics on the approach for a brawl, and mindful I don't have as much HP as a "normal" BB in this tier, so her staying power isn't as long as other BBs in a brawl.

 

You also said" "I mostly play Co-Op."

To me this means you still dive into PVP sometimes.  Champagne's firepower, accuracy at range should be something to consider, because long range combat is what defines High Tier combat.  But if you like to push a lot with your BB, Champagne is not the choice for you, as Champagne, Slava style of BB play is more long ranged and passive.  Their armor, HP levels are not suitable for close range fighting.  We even had CC videos showing this greatly differing styles of play that were both good and bad for the design of Champagne.  One CC I watched noted the passive style of Champagne, and was making long range attacks, getting Citadels, etc.  Another CC I watched played her like he would Richelieu or any other "normal" BB and talked about how bad a time he had with her, i.e. "Pushing whenever a good opportunity arises" with a Battleship.  Champagne does not do that style of BB play well.

 

Artillery Chart below showing Musashi (460mm), Richelieu (380mm) and Champagne (406mm).

Why Musashi?  Because I want to show how Champagne's AP penetration performance is compared to her.

Richelieu's 380mm AP is standard for all French BBs that use that gun at all tiers.

XSTsMpO.jpg

 

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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@HazeGrayUnderway: A quick question... has Gascogne pretty much fallen off to the wayside these days? I used to like her quite a bit, back when she was new and we had the Operation Hermes (lol) in the game. I used to do drive-by's on slower bots, using a fire-starter secondary build and engine boost. Just curious. :Smile_hiding:

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35 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

@HazeGrayUnderway: A quick question... has Gascogne pretty much fallen off to the wayside these days? I used to like her quite a bit, back when she was new and we had the Operation Hermes (lol) in the game. I used to do drive-by's on slower bots, using a fire-starter secondary build and engine boost. Just curious. :Smile_hiding:

She was never popular, even when the FR BB Line was new and WG pimped out her release at the same time.  Even when FR BBs were FOTM, she was still a rare sight.

 

Case in point is 1st Quarter 2021 Battles Played on the server.

VIII Gascogne, 2317 players, 11,316 battles.

VIII Roma, the highly divisive ship that trolls the owner more than it does the enemy.  5793 players, 51,955 battles.

X ARP Yamato, 1284 players, 15,531 battles.  Fewer people whaled for ARP Yamato but Yamato is gonna Yamato and still saw a good amount of action for the small amount of owners in that quarter.

V Kamikaze, 1745 players, 14,170 battles.  This Premium DD has not been on sale since around... 2016 or maybe even 2015?  Fewer owners in the quarter than Gascogne, but they play their OP ship more.

VII Yudachi, 4917 players, 28,305 battles.  Very few people like this Premium DD and it gets no love on the forums.  I dare you to make a thread talking about how awesome Yudachi is and see what reactions you get.  Despite that, she has a decent amount of players and sees more action than a lot of other Premiums out there.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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I have the Yudachi, and I play her on occasion.  I also have the ARP Yamato, which gets played often.

I don't have the Gascogne.  
Every time I've considered getting the Gascogne, I've thought, "not now, maybe later".

I think the Richelieu turns better than the Alsace.
Alsace & Flandre have a rear turret for main guns, though, and more total main guns.

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1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I think the Richelieu turns better than the Alsace.
Alsace & Flandre have a rear turret for main guns, though, and more total main guns.

Richelieu does maneuver better than Flandre.

Richy

32kts

850m turning circle radius

15.4 seconds rudder shift

 

Flandre

33.5kts

910m

16.6 seconds

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I like the Richelieu and the Jean Bart and the Alsace.  I enjoy sailing all of them.

The rear turret does provide an option for players to utilize, and the tank-i-er hull of the Alsace is a nice change of pace.

The Dunkerque, Strasbourg, Richelieu & Jean Bart have similar traits and play-styles.
Flandre & Alsace offer something different, I feel.

Vive la différence!  :cap_horn:

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I guess I was one of few that actually liked Gascogne. I felt like she was like a mini-Republique, with similar turret layout, and stuff. :Smile_sad:

I still prefer her a little more than her all-forward-turrets cousins, lel. :Smile_hiding:

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2 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

I guess I was one of few that actually liked Gascogne. I felt like she was like a mini-Republique, with similar turret layout, and stuff. :Smile_sad:

I still prefer her a little more than her all-forward-turrets cousins, lel. :Smile_hiding:

Vive la différence! :Smile_honoring:

Edited by Wolfswetpaws

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