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Skyfaller

Italian BB smoke: Does not break LOS/Spotting?

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If you are in a DD and you fire your guns then pop smoke.. you break the LOS and get into stealth. If you fire guns WHILE in smoke, you become visible to anything within a certain range. 

Italian BB smoke however, does not. If you fire guns then pop the smoke a second later, you remain visible for the entire gun bloom timer duration...just as if you had fired the guns while in smoke. Should this be the case or is it a glitch?

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No, the gun bloom while in smoke for BBs is just massive

It's the same for DDs its just those have much smaller bloom so it's not very noticeable

Edited by PotatoMD

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Depends on the range and what your smoke firing range is.

Also, say your smoke firing range is 15km, and your target is 18km away, an unspotted DD could be 12km away, and although the target can't spot you when you fire, the DD would.

Edited by Skpstr

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As far as I know, Italian smoke works the same as normal smoke. It's just that, since you're a battleship, your smoke firing penalty is already very high. On Lepanto, for example, it's 15.83km.

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From what I know it takes 2 seconds from being spotted to going dark. When a DD fires even before that, its small penalty to concealment when firing from smoke means that the next check to get undetected will be successful. Say you get spotted in an Italian BB, fire, then one second later you pop smoke, I believe you get the penalty to concealment when firing from smoke as the 2 seconds haven't passed. 

This is my interpretation anyway. You can try it in a Training room to guarantee the situation.

Here's the part from the wiki 

"Firing main guns will increase sea detectability ("bloom") to the current maximum range of the main guns. Air detectability will also increase by a smaller amount depending on the ship (and it is possible in this situation for air detectability range to exceed sea detectability, e.g König). If the ship is detected because of the bloom, detectability will reset after 20 seconds. However, if the ship leaves the enemy's line of sight (e.g. by hiding behind an island), detectability will reset 2 seconds after that.[1] If the ship remains undetected at the moment of the bloom, it will reset immediately"

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection

Edited by warheart1992

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14 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

If you are in a DD and you fire your guns then pop smoke.. you break the LOS and get into stealth. If you fire guns WHILE in smoke, you become visible to anything within a certain range. 

Italian BB smoke however, does not. If you fire guns then pop the smoke a second later, you remain visible for the entire gun bloom timer duration...just as if you had fired the guns while in smoke. Should this be the case or is it a glitch?

Just standard Battleship smoke interactions. This was changed nearly 2 years ago already to what you experienced now.

~Hunter

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For all ships there is a smoke firing penalty.  Some, like BBs, have really large penalties.  DDs have a really small penalty.  A DD can fire from smoke and be invisible at a range that a BB would be detected.  In the described cases, if a DD fires from open water and then becomes blocked by smoke they will become invisible, but only if there is no enemy within the smoke firing penalty distance.  If an enemy was on the edge of that distance but came closer, ,or was behind cover, you could get a blocked LOS at first, but become exposed if you continue firing.  A BB just has a massive smoke firing penalty.  Smoke for a BB is only for concealment so they can escape detection while not firing.

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My god how do people not know how smoke firing penalty works...it's been almost four years since they added that mechanic.

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Perhaps because this is the first time I've seen BB that uses smoke? 

In a dd or smoke cruiser firing guns and a second later popping smoke will break your LOS and you become invisible in smoke. The italian BBs do not do that which is what I find odd.. if the smoke is literally enveloping your ship and the guns have not been fired WHILE inside smoke (aka fired 5 seconds before popping the smoke) then there is NO REASON for the BB to be visible for 20+ seconds while inside its smoke. The LOS should be broken. 

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1 hour ago, Skyfaller said:

Perhaps because this is the first time I've seen BB that uses smoke? 

In a dd or smoke cruiser firing guns and a second later popping smoke will break your LOS and you become invisible in smoke. The italian BBs do not do that which is what I find odd.. if the smoke is literally enveloping your ship and the guns have not been fired WHILE inside smoke (aka fired 5 seconds before popping the smoke) then there is NO REASON for the BB to be visible for 20+ seconds while inside its smoke. The LOS should be broken. 

This is not the case. Activating smoke after firing will only reduce your visibility to maximum smoke firing visibility until your detection drops (i.e. from actually being undetected, or 20 seconds, whichever comes first). For most destroyers, this is < 4km. For ships like Anchorage, this is ~8km. For Colombo, IIRC it's a massive 14+km.

Edited by Compassghost

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29 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

Perhaps because this is the first time I've seen BB that uses smoke? 

In a dd or smoke cruiser firing guns and a second later popping smoke will break your LOS and you become invisible in smoke. The italian BBs do not do that which is what I find odd.. if the smoke is literally enveloping your ship and the guns have not been fired WHILE inside smoke (aka fired 5 seconds before popping the smoke) then there is NO REASON for the BB to be visible for 20+ seconds while inside its smoke. The LOS should be broken. 

Have you played an Italian cruiser? Anchorage? Tried borrowing a smoke in literally any other BB? 

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image.thumb.png.1e0ab215cb627a3b828bf3e9cfe00efb.png

 

Here is an Anchorage, in smoke, 4 seconds after firing, 3 seconds after deploying smoke, with an 8km smoke firing range, still detected. Smoke does not hard reset detection range. It only reduces it to the smoke firing range as long as your 20s firing timer is still up.

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I don't think that smoke is really designed to shoot from. You got to be too far away. It is for cover while crossing open points between islands or making that 180 degree turn without giving a broadside. Just make sure you don't shoot when you are doing this. 

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If you smoke, you can't shoot without being spotted

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12 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

Perhaps because this is the first time I've seen BB that uses smoke? 

In a dd or smoke cruiser firing guns and a second later popping smoke will break your LOS and you become invisible in smoke. The italian BBs do not do that which is what I find odd.. if the smoke is literally enveloping your ship and the guns have not been fired WHILE inside smoke (aka fired 5 seconds before popping the smoke) then there is NO REASON for the BB to be visible for 20+ seconds while inside its smoke. The LOS should be broken. 

Much like you don't understand dispersion, you also don't understand how the smoke firing gun bloom works.  Smoking up after firing does not conceal any ship, DD, CL, CA or BB if an enemy ship with line of sight to the ship in question is within the smoke firing detection range.  Smaller and fewer guns have shorter ranged smoke firing detection ranges (though this is not consistent) and thus it can seem like smoke entirely covers up their having fired, but this is not actually the case, it just reduces the gun bloom from their maximum gun range to their smoke firing detection range.

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On 4/14/2021 at 6:38 PM, SilverPhatShips said:

10000 games and hes asking this.....:Smile_amazed:

Actually is a good question.

The last two patches as a DD player I am getting trashed while trying to GET STOPPED inside my own smoke but OUTSIDE of the enemy DD's ability to detect me at 5.8km or whatever.

Many other bots in range take a exploratory shot which if I do not actually back up and change direction yet again, its enough to trash my ship to the point that I migh tas well start spamming torps and ram.

The smoke is supposed to follow the Columbo or the Lepento etc. However many times it's detected so hard and being so huge you might as well hang a burlesque sign in blinking neon gas saying Here I be, Sink me. I am actually NOT used to being inside BB smoke= that I can call my own for a few moments anyway.

With BB's and stuff bigger than a DD, I usually put the smoke wall about a mile in front and at least a mile in either flank so that I can go shoot, bloom be damned and all the incoming falls inside that smoke where they think I am shooting from.

Then they realize I am not in the smoke but rather a mile back from it. Blasting them when they charge smoke hoping to sink me in it or force me into open where i am sunk.

You can only do this once with humans who learn. They wont be doing taht next time.

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IMO the smoke on Columbo is rarely useful. Whatever was given up to have smoke capability would have been far better.

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On 4/14/2021 at 7:38 PM, SilverPhatShips said:

10000 games and hes asking this.....:Smile_amazed:

TBH, not that I'm unaware of it, but I have no idea offhand how far away I can fire in smoke, because I don't usually try it. (other than DDs or a couple CLs)

For me, smoke me is mostly a GTFO aid lol. 

So I can see where somebody might be a little off when playing their first BB with creeping smoke, and trying to use it offensively.

Edited by Skpstr

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