Yudachi - Tricked into buying by deceptive +200% XP combat mission

[MarkWreckless]

I suppose I'm a fool for thinking it was a "good deal", but I'm still annoyed by what I consider deceptive business practices.  See my correspondence with Wargaming below which summarizes my issue.  I'm curious if others consider this deceptive?

Note that I only played the ship 6 times, and won 4 of those battles (Random).  It wasn't until the 6th game that I looked closely at the "Credits and XP" page and realized that I wasn't getting any bonus Free XP nor any bonus Commander XP.  It's not my favorite ship for sure, but I don't mind it much, and I would have been happy grinding with it if it provided the bonus Free XP and Commander XP that I had been expecting, even if it only lasted 30 days.  As it is, this ship is completely worthless to me as I already have many other ships that are far better.

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SOLVED

Hello again, Mark. 

You can do as you see fit, but we can not add anything to the written before.
If you have any other questions or issues please do not hesitate to contact us at any time. 
Best regards.

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I find your business practices despicable. I only played with this ship a couple of times before I realized that I was not benefiting from anything besides Ship XP, which is of course is completely useless by itself. Again, why doesn't your description clearly state +200% *Ship XP*?!? I'll tell you why, because you purposely DECEIVED people like me into buying this ship. Your company is despicable. I don't think that I'll be playing this game any longer. Further, I plan to do whatever I can to dissuade others to stop participating in your fraudulent schemes. Your game is pretty good, and your company must be making decent profits, so I don't understand why your company thinks it necessary to use such despicable practices. -Mark

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Hello,
Thank you for contacting Wargaming support.

We understand that you would like to receive a refund for your recent purchase. Having checked our records, we found that you have made use of the in-game goods you purchased.
Unfortunately, we cannot proceed with the refund.

I am sorry we cannot do what you are asking for, but we hope that you will understand our limitations.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
Kind regards,

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Please note my misunderstanding of that combat mission. I had assumed that it would be similar to all the other combat missions that I've seen before, in that I would have 30 days to *complete* the mission. I had assumed that the mission might be somewhat difficult, such as sinking 30 DDs, or something like that. And I had assumed that, after *completing* the mission, that I would then be *rewarded* with getting +200% XP *indefinitely*.
And again, why doesn't your description clearly state +200% *Ship XP*?!? You game has Base XP, Ship XP, Commander XP, and Free XP. If you just say "XP", doesn't that convey Base XP, which is then used as the *base* for calculating Ship XP, Commander XP, and Free XP? This seems logical to me, which is why I assumed that this ship would be good for building Commander XP and Free XP, which are the only things that matter to me. Ship XP is completely useless to me.
This +200% XP was the whole reason why I purchased this ship, and so I really feel cheated to learn that this aspect of the ship is completely useless to me.
Thanks in advance. -Mark

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It said the Yudachi would come with "a special combat mission that grants +200% XP per battle." After buying it, I have now come to learn that the +200% XP is only good for 30 days! That was not clear. Further, since it didn't specify the type of XP, I had assumed that this extra XP included Ship XP *and* Commander XP *and* Free XP. After playing I now see that it seems to only be good for extra Ship XP, which is worthless in a premium ship. I would really appreciate it if you can refund the 6800 doubloons, as I feel that I was really cheated on this ship. Thanks in advance. -Mark

 

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

5 minutes ago, MarkWreckless said:

It wasn't until the 6th game that I looked closely at the "Credits and XP" page and realized that I wasn't getting any bonus Free XP nor any bonus Commander XP. 

It has always meant ship XP only. I have bought a few ships with this bonus applied, and that was always my understanding.

If you thought it was otherwise, you might have done better to come here and ask someone before putting the money down. 

However,  you should be aware that free XP is calculated directly from total ship XP earned and commander XP is partially composed of ship XP earned, so you are in fact boosting both of those things (albeit indirectly, and not as much as you might have hoped).

Now that you have the ship in hand, my advice to you would be to flog her to death and get as much out of it as you can in the time for which the bonus is available.

[warheart1992]

I mean, doesn't +200%  ship XP also mean you get +200% Free XP and Commander XP by association?

Also regarding the part of 30 days not being clear, from the premium shop page:

"A special combat mission will become available to owners of this bundle for a period of 30 days from the moment of its purchase. Any battle fought playing Yūdachi in Random, Co-op, and Ranked Battles, as well as in Operations, will bring you three times more XP than usual. You can obtain this combat mission only once per account"

If this isn't clear, I don't know what is.

 

[Burnsy]

FXP is calculated from earned XP.  You are getting a boost to FXP, based on the 200% XP multiplier that comes with the ship. 

That said, the sales page is clear. It says 200% XP, not 200% FXP.  WG did not deceive you, you misunderstood.  Unfortunately in your case, you did play the ship.  WG's policy is that if you take an item into battle, the possibility for a refund is closed.

[RipNuN2]

[OnociTsalk]

That the XP is ships XP has always been the case and is mentioned in the description. Not sure where you got your info.

Also, as the CXCP and FXP is calculated based off of the ship XP, so you are actually indeed getting more of the other two resources in addition to the ship XP. And it is linear, so basically you are earning +200% on both CXCP and FXP. I have a dedicated excel sheet to calculate this stuff (I'm really into optimizing grinds when using special camos/signals) and can walk you through the calculations, if you'd like. 

[DrHolmes52]

Deceptive?

In this instance, no.

[AJTP89]

This is even clearer than the Black Friday deals which caused so much trouble. XP has has always meant XP, why would it mean other things as well? And they specified. And it seems pretty clear to me the mission gives you +200% XP for 30 days. So yeah, they spelled it out pretty clearly.

Also, buying a premium ship just for a XP boost isn't a great idea, buy a premium ship because you think it will be fun to play. The mission should be a bonus. Because if you hate playing the ship why would you want to grind XP in it?

[Parliament_Funkadelic]

Ship XP is Ship XP, Captains XP is Ship XP

you actually got the captains xp you hoped for.

Free XP is 5% of all ship XP after modifiers, always has been always will be. (in theory)

 

I understand your frustration from the 30 day standpoint, if that wasn't made known, there should be some allowance of camos to make up for that. 

 

Lastly, i would wager that any and every person that has spent money on this game has had a feeling afterwards of "that wasn't quite what I expected".  Welcome to the club I say!

[_BlackHawk4_]

Sorry, but you're in the wrong here. 

[Skpstr]

54 minutes ago, MarkWreckless said:

 

Note that I only played the ship 6 times, and won 4 of those battles (Random).  It wasn't until the 6th game that I looked closely at the "Credits and XP" page and realized that I wasn't getting any bonus Free XP nor any bonus Commander XP. 

I'm confused. FXP and commander XP is derived from XP.

Are you saying that your XP earnings are triple what your commander XP is, and your FXP less than 2% of your XP? 

[Litigo_1970]

I've been a vocal critic of WG's practices in the past, so I am by no means a WG fanboy. 

That said, in this specific instance, I see no fraud and no deception on WG's part.

The mission description was clear and accurate: at least as to the issue you raise. 

The mission does indeed provide exactly what WG advertised: +200% exp for 30 days.

Free exp and Captain exp are calculated from the accumulated total experience, so the 200% bonus does earn you more free exp and captain exp.

What bothers me about the +200% bonus, which you did not mention, is that it is excluded from certain game types. That information is not made clear. 

I purchased a tier 9 ship package specifically to use the +200% bonus in clan battles. After using the ship in clan battles, I was disappointed to learn that clan battles is excluded from the +200% bonus. No where is that made clear. However, if you read the description carefully, it says:

"Any battle fought playing *ship name* in Random, Co-op, and Ranked Battles, as well as in Operations, will bring you three times more XP than usual."

Clan battles are not listed. WG doesn't point out the Clan battles exclusion, but if you read very closely and pay very careful attention, you should assume that clan battles are excluded, because they aren't specifically included. 

So, even though I was disappointed that the +200% bonus did not apply to clan battles, it was my own fault for not reading the description more carefully. My own fault for assuming the bonus applied to clan battles. That's on me. Any time you contemplate making  a purchase from WGing, you need to keep in mind that WG has a history of intentionally misleading, or ambiguous descriptions, and read every detail VERY carefully before making a decision. 

However, the issue you raise doesn't present any misrepresentation or ambiguity. Though you may be frustrated, this one is on you.

In your case, for a pleasant change, WG fairly and accurately described the mission, and delivered exactly what they described. 

 

[tcbaker777]

1 hour ago, OnociTsalk said:

/thread

[MarkWreckless]

Wow, so many comments in such a short time!  Thanks for everyone's feedback!

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If you thought it was otherwise, you might have done better to come here and ask someone before putting the money down. 

Good advice.  I didn't realize that this forum was so active and that I could get feedback so quickly.  I've learned a lesson!

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Also regarding the part of 30 days not being clear, from the premium shop page:

"A special combat mission will become available to owners of this bundle for a period of 30 days from the moment of its purchase. Any battle fought playing Yūdachi in Random, Co-op, and Ranked Battles, as well as in Operations, will bring you three times more XP than usual. You can obtain this combat mission only once per account"

If this isn't clear, I don't know what is.

Yes, I already indicated the source of my confusion about that, and I already indicated "I would have been happy ... even if it only lasted 30 days."  The 30 days thing is not my major gripe.

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I mean, doesn't +200%  ship XP also mean you get +200% Free XP and Commander XP by association?

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Also, as the CXCP and FXP is calculated based off of the ship XP, so you are actually indeed getting more of the other two resources in addition to the ship XP. And it is linear, so basically you are earning +200% on both CXCP and FXP. I have a dedicated excel sheet to calculate this stuff (I'm really into optimizing grinds when using special camos/signals) and can walk you through the calculations, if you'd like. 

Are you guys sure about this?  After a battle, on the "Credits and XP" page, it seemed pretty clear that the +200% was only within the Ship XP section.  The amount of Commander XP (which is what I care about the most) did not seem to be affected.  The Commander XP seemed similar to the amount of Commander XP that I get on other similar ships.  I would have expected it to be ~3x higher.  This is my major gripe.  If I am indeed getting 3x more Free XP *and* Commander XP, then I have no gripe.  I suppose I might was well play some more battles and see if I can't confirm.

Regarding those screenshots of their web pages.  I am pretty sure that they updated their webpages as a result of my complaint.  Prior to buying the ship I looked closely at the webpages to see what kind of XP, and I'm quite sure that they did not say "+200% SHIP XP", and I again checked prior to submitting my support ticket.  I wish I took screenshots beforehand.  

In any case, thanks again for all the feedback!

[MarkWreckless]

Actually, regarding those screenshots of their web pages, I just checked their "news" page, which is where I bought it from (within the game of course), and it still doesn't show "+200% SHIP XP"
https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/sales-and-events/premium-shop-0102-yudachi/

 

Not sure where you got your screenshots, but the places I looked did not show "+200% SHIP XP".  

[SgtSpud]

2 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

I mean, doesn't +200%  ship XP also mean you get +200% Free XP and Commander XP by association?

No, it means that you get 200% XP and your FXP and Commander XP remains a percentage of your total XP....has always been so.

[Sovereigndawg]

Sounds like a clear cut case of buyers remorse, due to not really reading the details. I know you feel cheated but you were not.

[Slimeball91]

19 minutes ago, MarkWreckless said:

Are you guys sure about this?  After a battle, on the "Credits and XP" page, it seemed pretty clear that the +200% was only within the Ship XP section.  The amount of Commander XP (which is what I care about the most) did not seem to be affected. 

As others have said FXP and commander XP are calculated from the ship XP.  I don't think that changes for the +200% bonus.  If you can grab a screenshot of your earnings from your next game we can check to see if the bonus is being applied.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

 

Source: https://na.wargaming.net/shop/wows/vehicles/16781/  in the premium shop, just a couple of minutes ago.

The news page purchase link does indeed not specify ship XP, but ship XP is what it has always been. 

@Hapa_Fodder could you pass this up the line? We do need some consistency here. IMHO either the two descriptions must both specify ship XP or the purchase links need to dump you directly into the premium shop page where you can be appraised of that fact before actually commencing the purchase.

[Vader_Sama]

51 minutes ago, MarkWreckless said:

Are you guys sure about this?  After a battle, on the "Credits and XP" page, it seemed pretty clear that the +200% was only within the Ship XP section.  The amount of Commander XP (which is what I care about the most) did not seem to be affected.  The Commander XP seemed similar to the amount of Commander XP that I get on other similar ships.  I would have expected it to be ~3x higher.  This is my major gripe.  If I am indeed getting 3x more Free XP *and* Commander XP, then I have no gripe.  I suppose I might was well play some more battles and see if I can't confirm.

+200%xp can be interpreted the same as +200% commander xp since it's an addition. Any ship xp you have goes directly into the commander xp at the same time.

 

The base free xp is calculated from the final xp you get on a ship after a battle at a rate of 5% of the total xp. A simple example, if your total xp in a game is 100, then the free xp you get is only just 5, now with the +200%, your total xp is gonna be 300 which then means your base free xp is 15.

[Compassghost]

Ship's bonuses are also included.

[Hapa_Fodder]

6 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

 

Source: https://na.wargaming.net/shop/wows/vehicles/16781/  in the premium shop, just a couple of minutes ago.

The news page purchase link does indeed not specify ship XP, but ship XP is what it has always been. 

@Hapa_Fodder could you pass this up the line? We do need some consistency here. IMHO either the two descriptions must both specify ship XP or the purchase links need to dump you directly into the premium shop page where you can be appraised of that fact before actually commencing the purchase.

I suppose I do not understand where the confusion is. I am pretty sure we have always listed directly what the bonus is. And for the premiums its always been a Combat mission for +200% Ship XP. If it were Commander XP it would say so or Free XP. I suppose I will do some research to see if we have worded it differently, but I do not think it has ever been.

-Hapa

[Hapa_Fodder]

AH, now I understand where the confusion is, the Yudachi article stats 200% XP not "Ship XP" as the premium shop states. One moment, doing more digging.

-Hapa

[Hapa_Fodder]

3 hours ago, MarkWreckless said:

I suppose I'm a fool for thinking it was a "good deal", but I'm still annoyed by what I consider deceptive business practices.  See my correspondence with Wargaming below which summarizes my issue.  I'm curious if others consider this deceptive?

Note that I only played the ship 6 times, and won 4 of those battles (Random).  It wasn't until the 6th game that I looked closely at the "Credits and XP" page and realized that I wasn't getting any bonus Free XP nor any bonus Commander XP.  It's not my favorite ship for sure, but I don't mind it much, and I would have been happy grinding with it if it provided the bonus Free XP and Commander XP that I had been expecting, even if it only lasted 30 days.  As it is, this ship is completely worthless to me as I already have many other ships that are far better.

 

Could you PM me your ticket number please?

Mahalo,

-Hapa

[AnimaL21]

10 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Ship's bonuses are also included.

This^^^^  Its definitely in there, look at the breakdown, and do the math.   The modified ship xp *IS* added to the captains xp.