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YouSatInGum

Is spamming Ranked and intentionally suiciding against TOS?

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Just had a ranked game where a player at the very beginning of the match announces in chat (only our team could see at that point) that he intends to suicide.  Shortly after this announcement a player from the other team, not even having seen our team chat, let's us know this player has a reputation for intentional suicides and sabotaging team play.  He had done this with at least two other players the other team.  Didn't matter what you said to the guy... he just says something to blow you off.  Barring coincidence, for that many random players to recognize the guy likely means he's done it a lot... in fact the name seemed familiar to me in the past.

His ship of choice of his suicide run?  A Smolie.  He hit W and did little evasion after that... his only contribution was holding down the left mouse button. You could tell his objective was to die as fast as possible to get to the next game.... ranked by volume.  I bet his Neptune was still in his last match.

Of course, this is a weakness of the current ranked system where wins are what determines the awards, but this guy has dropped of pretense of trying and is literally spamming as fast as he can to game the system.

Our course this is very unsportsman like since it puts your team at a great disadvantage, but does the TOS apply here?  You would think intentional suicide would be against TOS, but the most applicable section only referred to passive and repetitive play.

@Hapa_Fodder, I hope you can clarify.  It's already an issue with bad players who fail their way to the next leagues, but at least most of them are somewhat trying (I hope).  However, if too many players start doing what this guy is doing, it would be very bad for the health of the new ranked system.

 

 

 

 

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Contact support -> Violations and penalties -> Report -> In battle -> Collusions -> Fill everything out and attach a replay

is how I'd go about reporting it. NA support form is a bit different than EU one for some reason.

Edited by El2aZeR
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This is just one more reason why irrecoverable ranks need to go.

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I read a post in these forums from someone that this was their ranked strategy.  He called it a yolo but it’s basically the same thing.

I would like to see a minimum xp implemented so that you have to contribute in some way to earn a star even on the winning team.  Being carried shouldn’t be an option to rank out.

 

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32 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

Just had a ranked game where a player at the very beginning of the match announces in chat (only our team could see at that point) that he intends to suicide.  Shortly after this announcement a player from the other team, not even having seen our team chat, let's us know this player has a reputation for intentional suicides and sabotaging team play.  He had done this with at least two other players the other team.  Didn't matter what you said to the guy... he just says something to blow you off.  Barring coincidence, for that many random players to recognize the guy likely means he's done it a lot... in fact the name seemed familiar to me in the past.

His ship of choice of his suicide run?  A Smolie.  He hit W and did little evasion after that... his only contribution was holding down the left mouse button. You could tell his objective was to die as fast as possible to get to the next game.... ranked by volume.  I bet his Neptune was still in his last match.

Of course, this is a weakness of the current ranked system where wins are what determines the awards, but this guy has dropped of pretense of trying and is literally spamming as fast as he can to game the system.

Our course this is very unsportsman like since it puts your team at a great disadvantage, but does the TOS apply here?  You would think intentional suicide would be against TOS, but the most applicable section only referred to passive and repetitive play.

@Hapa_Fodder, I hope you can clarify.  It's already an issue with bad players who fail their way to the next leagues, but at least most of them are somewhat trying (I hope).  However, if too many players start doing what this guy is doing, it would be very bad for the health of the new ranked system.

 

 

 

 

You got a player that better than a serial afk’er

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I don't understand people like that.  Why even bother if you aren't going to play?

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Just had another one....  Edgecase can verify.... he was on other team.... CV started off doing torp drops on his own team and then yolo'd to the closest cap.... and then the team knew the throw was on so everybody yolo'd the best they could...

1 hour ago, eviltane said:

This is just one more reason why irrecoverable ranks need to go.

That won't necessarily fix it.  Silver doesn't have hardly any anyway.

Unfortunately the problem is more fundamental.  Awarding rewards by wins is the problem.  This has the potential to get out of hand, and WG will have to decide if they want to police this new system or risk the ranked format.

Edited by YouSatInGum

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2 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

Just had another one....  Edgecase can verify.... he was on other team.... CV started off doing torp drops on his own team and then yolo'd to the closest cap.... and then the team knew the throw was on so everybody yolo'd the best they could...

That won't necessarily fix it.  Silver doesn't have hardly any anyway.

Unfortunately the problem is more fundamental.  Awarding rewards by wins is the problem.  This has the potential to get out of hand, and WG will to decide if they want to police this new system or risk the ranked format.

Mind that I think you should be able to fail out of a league too ( I am not up to date if WG still blocks people from failing out of a league between sessions anymore . ).  Would removing irrecoverable ranks not make it require a lot more games to climb since a spammer should have A lot more loosing streaks then winning streaks .  
 

 

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There was a player with 1600 games or more I think in the test season. His best rank was 3 or something in gold. It was to the point where his name was known amongst a few of the other clans I know.

The idea of a league/ladder system in which you cannot move back makes this possible. It's a poor design. I play a game one my phone with a better working competitive ladder even. That's really sad considering how many amazing PC games have set an example on how to do it right and it just skims over WG's heads.

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1 minute ago, eviltane said:

Mind that I think you should be able to fail out of a league too ( I am not up to date if WG still blocks people from failing out of a league between sessions anymore . ).  Would removing irrecoverable ranks not make it require a lot more games to climb since a spammer should have A lot more loosing streaks then winning streaks .  
 

 

The games I've played with ladders generally award points for wins and remove points for losses. Usually you get more points for winning than losing so that if you win you progress but the occasional loss doesnt really set you back. However, continuous losses do set you back. They really need to consider something like this. They already use in in Clan Battles.

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Make it so that the bottom player on the winning team gets no star...? Tanks does it like that, but they are full 15-tank-a-team matches vs the reduced number in boats, so maybe that won't work here.

Or perhaps at least...I dunno...300 xp? 

P.S. I know the player in question, as he is quite famous for this. WG knows, as he's been reported repeatedly and even shown to do it on stream. They don't seem to care.

Edited by MajorEnglush

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33 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

The games I've played with ladders generally award points for wins and remove points for losses. Usually you get more points for winning than losing so that if you win you progress but the occasional loss doesnt really set you back. However, continuous losses do set you back. They really need to consider something like this. They already use in in Clan Battles.

Agreed, but when they revamped it, they were probably trying to do something close to the existing system...and probably figured combining the reward system from brawls would be good since it works OK there.

Well... players will find the weaknesses in the system.  I know WG won't want to change too much since they just did redo the system, but an alarming percentage of my games have players playing abnormally aggressive to the Yolo Spam system mentioned in my OP.  If the problem continues to grow, it will be hard to ignore... and they shouldn't because it is quite toxic and makes me want to stop playing for the night.

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Stars should be rewarded to the 7 players with the most XP in a battle, regardless of teams. The XP multiplier of the winning team should be enough incentive to win.

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No rule against spamming games that I know of. As long as they aren’t TK’ing, yolociding, calling out ships positions, or playing possum. They can try as often as they like.

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2 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

Just had a ranked game where a player at the very beginning of the match announces in chat (only our team could see at that point) that he intends to suicide.  Shortly after this announcement a player from the other team, not even having seen our team chat, let's us know this player has a reputation for intentional suicides and sabotaging team play.  He had done this with at least two other players the other team.  Didn't matter what you said to the guy... he just says something to blow you off.  Barring coincidence, for that many random players to recognize the guy likely means he's done it a lot... in fact the name seemed familiar to me in the past.

His ship of choice of his suicide run?  A Smolie.  He hit W and did little evasion after that... his only contribution was holding down the left mouse button. You could tell his objective was to die as fast as possible to get to the next game.... ranked by volume.  I bet his Neptune was still in his last match.

Of course, this is a weakness of the current ranked system where wins are what determines the awards, but this guy has dropped of pretense of trying and is literally spamming as fast as he can to game the system.

Our course this is very unsportsman like since it puts your team at a great disadvantage, but does the TOS apply here?  You would think intentional suicide would be against TOS, but the most applicable section only referred to passive and repetitive play.

@Hapa_Fodder, I hope you can clarify.  It's already an issue with bad players who fail their way to the next leagues, but at least most of them are somewhat trying (I hope).  However, if too many players start doing what this guy is doing, it would be very bad for the health of the new ranked system.

This is the slippery slope for more shooting games that have "cooperative" teams....  One players fun can be another player's agony...  And, when I play, I don't suicide but I am not that good so............a lot of negative karma.  So, what's the answer?  There isn't one because this is a F2P; with cooperative teams; without a MM that uses skill in any way; nor, does this game use skill for advancement - only what you can spend..........~~!!!!

So, isn't this discussion simply silly?  Because, the game isn't even skill based and a nine year old or anyone can buy into at the highest level.  So, if that nine year old wants to rush in and die a glorious death and he dies fighting, there's not hit, no harm nor any foul that can be used against him/her/them/those.....  Sorry, if you want a skill controlled game.........well, I head MWO is restarting with a new corporation and they have a skill based process.......that doesn't work either and never did......  Unsportsman like?  This isn't a team game - it's a cooperative shooter !!!  If you say it is, answer this:  who is the battle commander that is responsible for the battle? 

I know, you want team work without actual "teams".........and, want a cooperative effort.....  But, that isn't mandatory:  report them all you want.....that is the solution.......or, just don't play.......I don't anymore because of what you reported....

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17 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

No rule against spamming games that I know of. As long as they aren’t TK’ing, yolociding, calling out ships positions, or playing possum. They can try as often as they like.

Define yolociding.

This guy announced from the get go that he was going to suicide.... otherwise known as throwing games or intentionally not trying to win.

 

As much as I hate to admit... if you are trying to get your ranked steel as fast as possible... this maybe the way... even if you only have 25% of your games carried for you, at 3-4 min max per game you get a win in about the same amount of time that a proper game takes on average.... which even if you are pretty good you might win 60% of those.  It doesn't sound very fun, but the math works.  I hope WG will look into some way to prevent this.

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13 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

Define yolociding.

 This guy announced from the get go that he was going to suicide.... otherwise known as throwing games or intentionally not trying to win.

I would call that yolociding

Edited by Capt_Ahab1776

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Saw another guy in a Daring doing this in multiple games yesterday on my team and red teams. Would shoot a couple of times (mostly at me for calling him out each match), then head off to the back of the map spamming "well done" to everyone then stay there for the rest of the game. Total tosser.

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3 hours ago, Bomont said:

I don't understand people like that.  Why even bother if you aren't going to play?

Probably felt like they couldn't win so they decided to try to make the whole team lose for fun. AKA a loser converted troll.:Smile_trollface: Probably a lot of salt made him do it too.

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They won't do anything even if you report him.   I sent in a replay of a player who was attacking other players, purposely trying to sink our ships, and ranting in chat the entire time to WG, never even got a "we've looked into it and taken action" reply, they DO NOT CARE.

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15 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

and ranting in chat the entire time to WG

Ranting about WG but taking it out on others? Probably a good reason for me to take a break. I haven't seen any of this in-game, but I'm not surprised about the behavior.

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5 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

Our course this is very unsportsman like since it puts your team at a great disadvantage, but does the TOS apply here?  You would think intentional suicide would be against TOS, but the most applicable section only referred to passive and repetitive play.

Intentionally dying in a or on consecutive matches.. Is not against the TOS...


Intentionally throwing the match away is against the TOS/EULA however, the caveat here is the bar to conviction is rather high.

Certain parameters have to be met in order for a conviction to stick. An allegation of the/a witness in a match is not enough...

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I've played a lot of Ranked games and I've seen this a couple of times but not usually with the person announcing it in chat. I think their strategy is more games played equals better chance for a win streak with them doing zero work. So basically let's say you have a dozen Tier 9-10 ships. You jump into a Ranked game and go straight ahead and suicide. Then jump into another and repeat, then another, then another. By the time you do this in your 4th ship, the game from your first one is still going. Maybe by the time you get to your 7th ship, the first one is over and you just keep going like this and hoping your team mates that were left are able to win. I don't know what the percentage of wins would be by doing this, I'm guessing pretty low but if they are just farming the wins for the steel then it would probably work but cost a them a lot of credits. 

Yes, I do believe it is against the rules and by him announcing it, that is very blatant. However, it's the ones that don't announce it that are the real plague. WG would have a hard time proving they aren't just a bad player and proving they intentionally suicided. I mean we've all seen DD's run straight into a cap, get radar'd and die in the first minute of the game. How do we know if he just is not good or he did it intentionally. 

Again this goes to matchmaking. I think if the game detects that a person is dying within the first 2 minutes of a game, they should not be put with players who have a 60% win rate or maybe they should be sent to Co-op for 10 games in hopes they improve their game skills lol.

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image.thumb.png.3f32f87ab6551e4f091baf712469c41b.png

this are the Top 20 Players ... not in good but just in total games in this season ... nearly all are in gold

the problem is ... this is not a Ranked System in World of Warships ... its just Random with Rewards.

have a look at World of Tanks Ranked System ... where u have to do your designated rule in order to gain the nessecary Points to move on in the Ranks, like for example as Light Tank you need to earn Spotting Dmg https://worldoftanks.eu/en/content/guide/ranked_battles_guide/

is it a good System in WoT?! i dont know but i know its alot better then this what we have right now in WoWs.

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8 hours ago, eviltane said:

This is just one more reason why irrecoverable ranks need to go.

A star system needs to go.  A team wins or loses full stop.

 

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