Additional factors for damage

[Preditorian]

Although the typical values for the damage a gun can do has been working well in games, there is one that I feel would be better suited to play a role in the abilities of cannons.

 

If we look at a Iwoa Battleship vs a Yamato for gun damage on more historical layout (maybe this will be stock?) we will see how its not all about the bigger guns.

 

Yamato with its 18" cannons could pen a remarkable ammount of armor, but the Iwoa fired a specialised 16" that had almost the same penetration values of the Yamato's 18"s.

This brings about a variation of ammo like in WoT as expected, but what about muzzle velocity being more of a desiding factor? After all, if WG has the physics in mind from the start, then it would be save to assume that this feature would add a very different view on the damage output of certain smaller cannons over the bruisers in the 18+ range.

 

Personally I see the kinetic damage + explosive damage would be a awsome tactical addition to the game, with people focusing on whats more useful for thier play styles over just grinding for the biggest gun in the game. Variation is the key to making this the best naval combat game, so lets hope something like this is added, or is already in play. :)

[MaTriiks]

Like if you hit the fuel tank of the ship the whole ship exploded? that would be cool :D

[Peristeronicify]

I'm sure they have a fairly complex way of doing damage. :)

[Goldeneye54]

Saw a picture somewhere of the armor belts on some of these ships so I'm sure the damage system will be good, I hope*

[InvalidKey]

Peristeronicify, on 17 August 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

I'm sure they have a fairly complex way of doing damage. :)

Really? That'd be a shame.  It's supposed to be fun you know.  Perhaps you're right.  Perhaps they should try to emulate that a shell hit 2nd lieutenant Gerhard Burghermeister while he was manning battle stations in a surprise attack, which in an of itself is rather inconsequential, but he was about to tell lieutenant Heinz Katchupzerian that the bilge pump in the forward powder stores was malfunctioning and might not be fully operational, which in and of itself might not have mattered all that much until a near miss of another shell (which still impacted close enough to rock the ship) knocked over cooks assistant Detlef Thomas, who, while disoriented grabbed the upper cabinet door to steady himself.  That might not have been bad, except that the cooking lard was stored above the stove for easy access (stupid, perhaps, but the capn wants his breakfast and he wants it fast), which also jostled by the impact fell on the stove, which started a fire in the galley, which means nothing... until the fire got into the ventilation system.  Of course, that's as far as it went, until the fire got close to the powder room, and the fire control party battling the blaze decided there was some danger of the fire entering the powder room through the electrical conduits and ordered it flooded, on the understand that it could be bilged later on.  Which, under normal circumstances might have been what happened.  That is, of course, if the bilge pump had been working.  Now, the battle outside rages on.  Another hit below the water line started some flooding in the central stores as well, and wedged open the flood valves of the forward powder room.  The damage control team is now battling smoke, fire, a flood in the powder room they cant' turn off, a flood in central stores they can't stop because the fire is blocking the waterpoof door from being closed.  Then the ship begins to list to port and slow down under the increasing weight of the water.  One flooded set of compartments wouldn't be enough to do this, but two...  That was fine, you know, the ship wasn't done in just yet, but the exact amount of lost speed and the fact that the list pulled the ship ever so slightly to the port, allowed another shell which might have simply missed altogether astern to strike a direct hit on the depth charge rack astern and ...

BOOOM

The ship goes down with all hands.  All because we had complex damage modeling and because Gerhard just *happened* to be walking past at just that moment.  Tragic.

Or... we could just use the WoT style of damage detection where most hits just cause HP damage, certain areas are marked as being related to modules, and the game plays more or less like an arcade game. Like it's supposed to be.  By Jove, that might just be crazy enough to work!

[Crag_r]

If you look in WoT you will see that each gun has stats that are not completely based on gun size; damage and penetration. and not to mention a few others but they can also change with shell type as well. And all that can be changed on both the range you hit the target at, the angle you hit the target at, and what armor of the target you hit.

[Jinxed_Katajainen]

Gun stats vs Armor stats + angle of impact.

Very simplified, but that's basically what WoT runs off of.  Don't see why they would need to change the formula.

[Peristeronicify]

InvalidKey, on 17 August 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

Really? That'd be a shame.  It's supposed to be fun you know.  Perhaps you're right.  Perhaps they should try to emulate that a shell hit 2nd lieutenant Gerhard Burghermeister while he was manning battle stations in a surprise attack, which in an of itself is rather inconsequential, but he was about to tell lieutenant Heinz Katchupzerian that the bilge pump in the forward powder stores was malfunctioning and might not be fully operational, which in and of itself might not have mattered all that much until a near miss of another shell (which still impacted close enough to rock the ship) knocked over cooks assistant Detlef Thomas, who, while disoriented grabbed the upper cabinet door to steady himself.  That might not have been bad, except that the cooking lard was stored above the stove for easy access (stupid, perhaps, but the capn wants his breakfast and he wants it fast), which also jostled by the impact fell on the stove, which started a fire in the galley, which means nothing... until the fire got into the ventilation system.  Of course, that's as far as it went, until the fire got close to the powder room, and the fire control party battling the blaze decided there was some danger of the fire entering the powder room through the electrical conduits and ordered it flooded, on the understand that it could be bilged later on.  Which, under normal circumstances might have been what happened.  That is, of course, if the bilge pump had been working.  Now, the battle outside rages on.  Another hit below the water line started some flooding in the central stores as well, and wedged open the flood valves of the forward powder room.  The damage control team is now battling smoke, fire, a flood in the powder room they cant' turn off, a flood in central stores they can't stop because the fire is blocking the waterpoof door from being closed.  Then the ship begins to list to port and slow down under the increasing weight of the water.  One flooded set of compartments wouldn't be enough to do this, but two...  That was fine, you know, the ship wasn't done in just yet, but the exact amount of lost speed and the fact that the list pulled the ship ever so slightly to the port, allowed another shell which might have simply missed altogether astern to strike a direct hit on the depth charge rack astern and ...

BOOOM

The ship goes down with all hands.  All because we had complex damage modeling and because Gerhard just *happened* to be walking past at just that moment.  Tragic.

Or... we could just use the WoT style of damage detection where most hits just cause HP damage, certain areas are marked as being related to modules, and the game plays more or less like an arcade game. Like it's supposed to be.  By Jove, that might just be crazy enough to work!

Perhaps "farily comex" wasn't th correct term (okay it wasn't at all.),  but it will be more complex than 100 damage gun hits 75mm which is in toatal 25 damage or even 10 damage gun hits does ten damage.

I agrree the WOT model is how the game will work but think about it, it is farily complex. Although we don't know full details it takes distance (I believe) armor thickness in a fairly adquately detailed hit zone with sloping plus an rng variation of +/- 25%. Much more complex than some arcade games I've played. While I agree the above is overly compex, it isn't goingto be simple. They've been planning this a while and I'm sure there are a couple of variables in the equation plus whether a ot oes HPdamage, module damage, or in this case flooding. Add in something like before, it does kind of get complex, not really complex but not simple.

[KriegsMeister]

well there are three ways to sink a ship

 

1.) Fire HUNDREDS of shells at the target hoping to put enough holes into it that water flows in faster than it can be pumped out so that it will capsize

 

2.) Get one or two INCREDIBLY lucky hits in certain key spots like the magazines or fuel tanks or engines that would explode and rip the ship apart into nice shredded bits of metal.

 

3.) Take your ship steam full speed and ram into its side breaking the keel and possibly cutting it in half but at the cost of your ship

 

so the first one will probably be the HP  and flooding mechanics second the module system but much more volatile than in WoT and the third a fun as hecklast ditch suicde run (also it has been confirmed in the Q&A that ships will be able to break into four major sections)

[Gohibniu]

MaTriiks, on 17 August 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Like if you hit the fuel tank of the ship the whole ship exploded? that would be cool :D

Well most ship fuel is so viscous that you would need to heat it to get it to flow...but Japanese ships might have increased fire damage because they fueled directly from the pump ( who cares about all those volatiles anyway?). Lol

[Gohibniu]

Horokew, on 17 August 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Gun stats vs Armor stats + angle of impact.
Very simplified, but that's basically what WoT runs off of.  Don't see why they would need to change the formula.

Most ships were vulnerable to near misses, that would torpedo under the armor belt. The US battleships were somewhat better protected against this, but kind of funny that with all the armor to protect against shells, torpedos sank more ships.

[igorfc]

I want the game as realistic as possible, but knowing it's not a sim I also want the game to be as fun as possible, and this include lots of big booms!

[triptyx]

I'm sure it'll be very similar to WoT, with probably some added "module" hit complexity. Just as in WoT, I'm sure it'll be possible for something really explosivey to massively fail a saving throw resulting in a spectacular one-hit from time to time.  :)

 

Edit - Followed by the one-hit wonder raging on the forums for an hour or two.   :Smile-angry: