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LittleWhiteMouse

Marco Polo does NOT get Smoke

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Hey all, just a quick FYI about the new tier IX premium Italian battleship.  These are Marco Polo's consumables:

dB6kbjK.png     Yubz5gB.png
Can you see what's missing?

Unlike the other high-tier Italian tech-tree battleships, Marco Polo DOES NOT get access to an Exhaust Smoke Generator.  For me, I was very much looking forward to playing with an Italian premium battleship with smoke and I was surprised to see that Marco Polo did not have one.  I dunno if this is a deal breaker for anyone else, but I thought it best to get the word out promptly before people had a chance to spend money or coal on her.

My full review for Marco Polo, the new tier IX Italian battleship will be coming out over the next couple of days. I'm going back to editing, checking references and rewrites.  Mouse out!

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Thanks for the early warning!

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I saw this earlier, and while not personally a deal breaker, it is pretty disappointing. 

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After watching Mr Gibbins get absolutely railed by a surprise Jean Bart I am less interested in it than I was.  I know many ships can be hit hard, but usually they have compensating factors such as big health pools or great heals......

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22 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

After watching Mr Gibbins get absolutely railed by a surprise Jean Bart I am less interested in it than I was.  I know many ships can be hit hard, but usually they have compensating factors such as big health pools or great heals......

A bit of a spoiler, but Marco Polo's best feature is her armour profile.  Like the Soviet battleships before her, her skin is EXTRA THICC and great at shrugging off HE shells.  But you have to ask yourself if that (and slinging SAP shells) is worthwhile when you could just play Sovetsky Soyuz or AL Sovetskaya Rossiya instead and get the same thing but with better gunnery.

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Considering you get 406mms meaning you overmatch 27mm and somewhat better accuracy, would you say it's worth it regardless of the lack of Exhaust Smoke?

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2 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Considering you get 406mms meaning you overmatch 27mm and somewhat better accuracy, would you say it's worth it regardless of the lack of Exhaust Smoke?

Worth it compared to what?  Roma's the better money-maker (with her Makoto Kobayashi camouflage) and Giulio Cesare (if you have her) is the better trainer. In terms of just novel game-play, there are lots (and lots) of nine-gun, 406mm armed battleships at tier IX.    Marco Polo's traits that differentiate her from them are SAP and her armour profile, while paying for it with a painfully long reload and low health.  She also does not take well to the Dead Eye skill having (relatively) short range and a large surface detection radius, giving her a smaller "window" of opportunity to make it work.  So the question becomes, is slow-firing SAP and Soviet-style armour worth it?  Cuz you can get everything else elsewhere.

 

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2 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Worth it compared to what?  Roma's the better money-maker (with her Makoto Kobayashi camouflage) and Giulio Cesare (if you have her) is the better trainer. In terms of just novel game-play, there are lots (and lots) of nine-gun, 406mm armed battleships at tier IX.    Marco Polo's traits that differentiate her from them are SAP and her armour profile, while paying for it with a painfully long reload and low health.  She also does not take well to the Dead Eye skill having (relatively) short range and a large surface detection radius, giving her a smaller "window" of opportunity to make it work.  So the question becomes, is slow-firing SAP and Soviet-style armour worth it?  Cuz you can get everything else elsewhere.

 

Welp that pretty much covers my question, guess it's a pass for now. :Smile_hiding:

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Can some explain to me why smoke for a BB is a good idea :Smile_hiding: 

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Just now, LastRemnant said:

Can some explain to me why smoke for a BB is a good idea :Smile_hiding: 

Just an example, you can disengage within your detection range without worrying about giving broadside. It's a big "get out of jail" card.

 

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SAP is a stupid ammo: doesnt overpen, has a treshold, have improved pen but doesnt start fire. It's basically the HE version of AP.

 

Marco has (or is supposed to have) better accuracy than other Italian BB on top of having 406mm (overmatching 27mm). SAP overmatch is a thing too and last time I checked, her SAP didnt get nerfed like the normal Italian line.

 

I'll still wait for your guide but I dont think it will be *that* bad 

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3 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

SAP is a stupid ammo: doesnt overpen, has a treshold, have improved pen but doesnt start fire. It's basically the HE version of AP.

 

Marco has (or is supposed to have) better accuracy than other Italian BB on top of having 406mm (overmatching 27mm). SAP overmatch is a thing too and last time I checked, her SAP didnt get nerfed like the normal Italian line.

 

I'll still wait for your guide but I dont think it will be *that* bad 

2i9EzNx.jpg
180 AP shells fired at a stationary Fuso-bot that does not have camouflage, skills or upgrades.  Marco Polo is using Aiming System Modification 1 (but not Dead-Eye).  Shots are coming in from right to left with the Fuso effectively bow-tanking.  I rate Marco Polo's accuracy as a solid "meh":  She shoots like Roma, but not as quickly.

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Just give it amazingly accurate, long range, high pen, and high fire chance secondarys so it can be renamed "Marco Yolo".

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37 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

A bit of a spoiler, but Marco Polo's best feature is her armour profile.  Like the Soviet battleships before her, her skin is EXTRA THICC and great at shrugging off HE shells.  But you have to ask yourself if that (and slinging SAP shells) is worthwhile when you could just play Sovetsky Soyuz or AL Sovetskaya Rossiya instead and get the same thing but with better gunnery.

I'm not sure if this is calling Soyuz's gunnery good, or calling Marco's gunnery bad...

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17 minutes ago, YAMATO_DIFFERENCE said:

Just give it amazingly accurate, long range, high pen, and high fire chance secondarys so it can be renamed "Marco Yolo".

 

fozzy.gif

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1 hour ago, Helstrem said:

After watching Mr Gibbins get absolutely railed by a surprise Jean Bart I am less interested in it than I was.  I know many ships can be hit hard, but usually they have compensating factors such as big health pools or great heals......

Gibbons isn't really a good player, so I wouldn't base your decisions strictly based on what he says. (you should be looking at multiple sources anyways.  
Also, you said it was a surprise Jean Bart. Any ship caught by surprise is gonna get hurt, so I don't know why you use that situation to make judgements about the ship.

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If she can have her own beer can camo, she may be nice to have.

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14 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

SAP is a stupid ammo: doesnt overpen, has a treshold, have improved pen but doesnt start fire. It's basically the HE version of AP.

SAP is arguably the best ammo in-game, it has combined chracteristics of both ammo types. 

Or how the wiki says it: The nose of the casing of a SAP shell is thickened to form a penetrator cap, of a sort, with less high explosive than HE but more than AP shells can pack in. SAP is fused to explode on impact similar to HE shell mechanics. Like HE shells, SAP armor penetration is not a function of shell velocity or angle of incidence. SAP penetration depends on the caliber of the shell and the nominal thickness of the armor. The shell penetrates and deals damage if the penetration value is higher than or equal to the thickness of the armor.

SAP tend to deal more damage than same gun calibar AP. SAP could ricochet, but has very good ricochet angles. Even better than those found on ships such as Minotaur, Des Moines, or Stalingrad.

SAP also can penetrate more armor, and deal more damage than HE shells. A downside though is that they cannot penetrate thick armor like AP shells, but at the same time do not overpen. From my career as a BB main, over penning targets can be very frustrating in a BB.

SAP does not blast like a HE shell when striking a surface, which means that it can't destroy modules or AA mounts.

Even though SAP can deal AP alpha using HE mechanics, it doesn't ignite fires.

SAP deals extreme damage saturation, when striking a already saturated section on a ship it deals less damage.

For Italian Cruisers, SAP can deal huge alpha damage without fear of regular AP damage limit. That is why the capped the Italian BBs SAP damage against DDs. Ships like Venezia doesn't suffer from this and is capable of one shotting DDs if aimed properly.

 

Summary: SAP shares the same strengths, and weaknesses of both ammo types. Strengths of one ammo type combined with the strengths of another ammo type is quite strong. 

Edited by YAMATO_DIFFERENCE
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Was it definitively stated to have smoke at some point and only now being revealed to no longer have it?

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2 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Hey all, just a quick FYI about the new tier IX premium Italian battleship.  These are Marco Polo's consumables:

dB6kbjK.png     Yubz5gB.png
Can you see what's missing?

Unlike the other high-tier Italian tech-tree battleships, Marco Polo DOES NOT get access to an Exhaust Smoke Generator.  For me, I was very much looking forward to playing with an Italian premium battleship with smoke and I was surprised to see that Marco Polo did not have one.  I dunno if this is a deal breaker for anyone else, but I thought it best to get the word out promptly before people had a chance to spend money or coal on her.

My full review for Marco Polo, the new tier IX Italian battleship will be coming out over the next couple of days. I'm going back to editing, checking references and rewrites.  Mouse out!

:cap_look:

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1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

Just an example, you can disengage within your detection range without worrying about giving broadside. It's a big "get out of jail" card.

 

 

I can understand a DD using this :fish_book: They are small and agile and can move around in the smoke :Smile_hiding: But a BB using this seems limited sure you make yourself disappear for a bit but DDs and cruiser can still send torps in their  :Smile_teethhappy:  I guess it can useful but not as useful for DD though :Smile_bajan2:

Edited by LastRemnant

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I knew it wasn't getting Smoke long ago when Marco Polo and the new Italian BBs started showing up in Fitting Tool.

1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

Just an example, you can disengage within your detection range without worrying about giving broadside. It's a big "get out of jail" card.

 

Some management is still required.  You fire and are spotted, then pop your ITA BB Smoke a few seconds after, you'll still be spotted thanks to gun bloom.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Hey all, just a quick FYI about the new tier IX premium Italian battleship.  These are Marco Polo's consumables:

dB6kbjK.png     Yubz5gB.png
Can you see what's missing?

Unlike the other high-tier Italian tech-tree battleships, Marco Polo DOES NOT get access to an Exhaust Smoke Generator.  For me, I was very much looking forward to playing with an Italian premium battleship with smoke and I was surprised to see that Marco Polo did not have one.  I dunno if this is a deal breaker for anyone else, but I thought it best to get the word out promptly before people had a chance to spend money or coal on her.

My full review for Marco Polo, the new tier IX Italian battleship will be coming out over the next couple of days. I'm going back to editing, checking references and rewrites.  Mouse out!

LePanto is much better anyway.. 12 barrels is 12 barrels and that smoke mmmfffff. Too bad secondaries got nerfed into useless junk... lepanto's high turn rate, 12 barrels plus secondary build with smoke would've been the ultimate troll boat :( 

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