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Shadow_Wolf7

Harugumo IFHE?

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So I was wondering what the arguments are for and against taking IFHE on Harugumo?

I do take IFHE on Akizuki currently as the bump to 32mm of pen allows you to pen almost everywhere on a lot of T8 BB's but this gets less and less useful the higher the MM becomes.

By the time you get to Harugumo it only allows you to pen bow/stern of: Yamato, Shikishima, Vermont, Montana, Ohio, and does allow you to pen all of a Conqueror, Thunderer, Republique and Bourgogne. And of course, if you are lucky enough to be top tier it does help you more on T8 and T9 BB's.

Generally I much prefer pen damage to fire chance. Fires can be nice, but it's annoying if RNG screws you over during a match and you only end up setting 2 fires or something stupid. But idk if it's worth it at T10. The other thing is that not taking IFHE does allow me to spend the points elsewhere and take "Main battery and AA specialist" which is a nice 5% boost to dpm as well as giving me a better fire chance without IFHE. So the real question becomes is the IFHE pen damage worth both the 50% nerf in fire chance and the 5% loss in dpm since you can't take "Main battery and AA specialist"?

IFHE Build

IFHE.JPG.2581f58d5c06e9528d6801117866c4be.JPG

No IFHE build

43207335_NoIFHE.JPG.a004aee2c6350dd8d5f15884a341fe3c.JPG

Edited by Shadow_Wolf7

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13 minutes ago, Shadow_Wolf7 said:

I do take IFHE on Akizuki currently as the bump to 32mm of pen allows you to pen almost everywhere on a lot of T8 BB's but this gets less and less useful the higher the MM becomes.

The opposite it true. IFHE is pretty much a toss-up on tier VIII 152mm CLs and Akizuki because you only need it to pen the 32mm plating of tier VIII+ BBs (30mm pen is enough to pen every cruiser). As you go up in tiers, these BBs become more prevalent in your MM spread so the skill becomes more valuable.

13 minutes ago, Shadow_Wolf7 said:

So the real question becomes is the IFHE pen damage worth both the 50% nerf in fire chance and the 5% loss in dpm since you can't take "Main battery and AA specialist"?

Cant answer this because I don’t consider this nerfed version of BFT to be worth three points. IMO, you’d be better off taking SI or Pyrotechnician + PT, or also drop Grease the Gears and grab RPF.

Edited by Nevermore135

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In reality, IFHE have more use for Harugumo than Akizuki: in average you will face more ships with less than 30mm of armor: every ships at tier 7 and 6 do not require 32mm of pen. Meanwhile, Harugumo will only face BB with 32mm bow and stern. Even the GK and the Kremlin have massive 32mm bow and stern to farm (yes, they have extended belt and ice breaker, but you can still farm them.

 

Also, with IFHE you should tech pyrotechnician. With IFHE and all the flags you get 3% fire chance, with Pyro you rise it to 4%, increasing you fire per minute by roughly 25%.

 

All in all, I would not take it: the cost is quite high for the situational use. I would instead :

1 Preventive Maintnance

2 Last Stand

3 Survivability expert

4 Concealment Expert, Radio Location

3 Superintendant

2 Priority Target, Pyro or  Extra Heavy AP.

 

Adrenaline Rush tend to be lackluster on gunboat, since you can hardly gun to full potential once you are low on health. Main Battery and AA expert is a 2 edged swords: more range let you hit more stuff, but also make you bloom more, making cover harder to use. And at max range, the 100mm shells are like clown balloon. Meanwhile, one more smoke and one more torp reload is pretty useful, Radio Location helps your poor concealment ships to not get surprised, priority target to shoot in open water when needed and Extra Heavy AP can let you farm like no tomorrow superstructure.

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6 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

The opposite it true. IFHE is pretty much a toss-up on tier VIII 152mm CLs and Akizuki because you only need it to pen the 32mm plating of tier VIII+ BBs (30mm pen is enough to pen every cruiser). As you go up in tiers, these BBs become more prevalent in your MM spread so the skill becomes more valuable.

Cant answer this because I don’t consider this nerfed version of BFT to be worth three points. IMO, you’d be better off taking SI or Pyrotechnician + PT, or also drop Grease the Gears and grab RPF.

You may have more BB's the higher MM you go but at T8 32mm let's you pen almost the entire BB at T9 less and by T10 it's only the bow and stern. So maybe more BB's but less area of the BB to pen with 32mm.

IFHE was a 4pt skill before so it's this a buff to DD's to make it a 3pt skill now? Or are you just meaning the 50% reduction in fire chance?

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10 minutes ago, Shadow_Wolf7 said:

You may have more BB's the higher MM you go but at T8 32mm let's you pen almost the entire BB at T9 less and by T10 it's only the bow and stern. So maybe more BB's but less area of the BB to pen with 32mm.

My argument is that you should be able to target the bow and stern with good efficiency at typical engagement ranges anyways, so being able to damage hulls that you couldn’t before is the biggest advantage of the skill. On most BBs, a significant number of your shots that hit amidships will damage the superstructure anyways.

10 minutes ago, Shadow_Wolf7 said:

IFHE was a 4pt skill before so it's this a buff to DD's to make it a 3pt skill now? Or are you just meaning the 50% reduction in fire chance?

I’m referring to Main Battery and AA Specialist, which is a nerfed version of the old BFT skill. IMO, this skill is not worth taking for 3 skill points.

Edited by Nevermore135

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22 minutes ago, Shadow_Wolf7 said:

You may have more BB's the higher MM you go but at T8 32mm let's you pen almost the entire BB at T9 less and by T10 it's only the bow and stern. So maybe more BB's but less area of the BB to pen with 32mm.

You do pen more part of Amagi, and a little bit more on Izumo than on Yamato.

For the fast American, they all have 38mm of deck plating. The only plus is the upper belt on North Carolina at 32mm, but it is quite a small target.

For the fat American Tier 9 and 10 got enough deck armor to mitigate 37mm of HE pen.

Kremlin and Vladivostosk offer similar protection.

GK offer more protection than Bismarck

The rest are all 32mm covered.

 

Overall, tier 10 BB can still be farmed by IFHE if you know where to aim, and you will almost never face BB with less than 32mm of plating on the bow or stern. While at tier 8 you will face plenty of BB with less than 32mm parts,  making it more questionable to be picked at tier 8.

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I go without IFHE on Akizuki through Harugumo because I get plenty of damage with good shot placement. I don't feel like I am missing anything without the little bit of extra pen.

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You don't need IFHE on the Haru, it's a waste of points in my own opinion. I do just fine in her without it and she tears anything up that gets in her way. BB's will melt, cruisers that show me broadside get my AP and it shreds them, DD's get my machine gun HE and anything and everything better remember that the Haru's torps will send you to the oceans bottom. 

HaruRankDoubleStrike.jpg

HaruRankDoubleStrike1.jpg

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1 hour ago, Shadow_Wolf7 said:

You may have more BB's the higher MM you go but at T8 32mm let's you pen almost the entire BB at T9 less and by T10 it's only the bow and stern. So maybe more BB's but less area of the BB to pen with 32mm.

IFHE was a 4pt skill before so it's this a buff to DD's to make it a 3pt skill now? Or are you just meaning the 50% reduction in fire chance?

I don't think this changes as much as you are thinking.

Most US BBs are the same Tier VIII through X, with Kansas being the only exception and that is a recent addition.

Tier VIII IJN BBs are more vulnerable, Kii and Amagi (+ clones)  are all 32mm compared to Izumo (+ clone), Musashi, Yamato and Shikishima having large parts of their decks being 50+mm, but the new Tier IX Hizen is all 32mm.

German BBs are all the same, Tier VIII through X, with only small parts of 32mm.

Soviet BBs are, again, the same Tier VIII through X, with only small parts of 32mm.

Italian BBs are, likewise, the same Tier VIII through X, with only small areas of 32mm.

British BBs are the same Tier VIII through X, with almost everything being 32mm plating other than their tall belts, turrets and little bridge armor.

French BBs are also the same, Tier VIII through X, being almost all 32mm plated, save the turrets and a conning towers.

 

I really don't see where the big difference between Tier VIII an X BBs are, other than the Japanese.

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38 minutes ago, Lord_Argus said:

You don't need IFHE on the Haru, it's a waste of points in my own opinion. I do just fine in her without it and she tears anything up that gets in her way. BB's will melt, cruisers that show me broadside get my AP and it shreds them, DD's get my machine gun HE and anything and everything better remember that the Haru's torps will send you to the oceans bottom. 

...

HaruRankDoubleStrike1.jpg

That screenshot says 100k out of your 150k damage came from BBs eating 7 torps. How does that have anything to do with IFHE?

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3 hours ago, Edgecase said:

That screenshot says 100k out of your 150k damage came from BBs eating 7 torps. How does that have anything to do with IFHE?

My average damage in the Haru is 111k over some 900 games played in her. I have many games where I get 140-200k without hitting with a single torp. She is a monster and doesn't need IFHE to rule the ocean

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