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jags_domain

Do commander skills really matter?

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there have been several threads and some youtube chatter about whether you meed commander skills.

Yes they can help in some thing especially stealth but if you run without them and do about the same.  

Then maybe all the complaining is for not?

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Do commander skills really matter?

ABSOLUTELY.

Commander skills are what adds variety to gameplay. Without commander skills, a lot of builds just wouldn't work, as well.

You're probably thinking in regards to Co-Op Battles, where anything and every ship can technically work...but try going into a high-tier Random or Ranked battle without Fire Prevention, or not taking Long Range Secondary Battery Shells on Massachusetts. It just won't work as well as it should.

Edited by SaiIor_Moon
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At end-game, they do. Concealment Expert and RPF distinctly change how Paolo Emilio play, for example. A Paolo without Concealment Expert will require an additional 1km of running room to get into kill range.

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Depends on the ship and tier your playing.  However skill out trumps any commander skill.

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The skill of the player is far greater influence than captain skills. All things being equal though, yes the captain skills help give you an edge. 
 

DPM Boosts - there are many skills that help sone ships boost DPM by 5%,10%, 19.9% 

survival  - shortening flooding and fires, accelerating repairs, additional heals 

utility - extra consumables, enemy or torp detection, AA 

while none of these will make a poor player into a great player. They can give an edge to a same skill level player. 

 

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Just now, xXUglykidXx said:

The skill of the player is far greater influence than captain skills. All things being equal though, yes the captain skills help give you an edge. 
 

DPM Boosts - there are many skills that help sone ships boost DPM by 5%,10%, 19.9% 

survival  - shortening flooding and fires, accelerating repairs, additional heals 

utility - extra consumables, enemy or torp detection, AA 

while none of these will make a poor player into a great player. They can give an edge to a same skill level player. 

 

Ultimately, the point of captain skills (and modules, to be fair) is to add variety to ship builds. Do you want more range on your secondaries? Do you want to be seen less often? Do you want to take less damage from fires? Do you want to deal more AP damage? Do you want to be more accurate? Modules and Captain Skills allow this customization, which is FUN! And that's what World of Warships need to be. Fun!

So yes of course, when certain skills don't work as well as they need to OR if said skill works too well, then balancing is needed, yes. Much better to balance something than not have it at all, in my opinion!

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I have been in Co-Op since 0.8.0.

When playing Co-Op there is no need for training commanders, wearing Camo, using signals.

I do agree with the Random assessment  want to die go in NAKED.

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1 hour ago, xXUglykidXx said:

The skill of the player is far greater influence than captain skills. All things being equal though, yes the captain skills help give you an edge. 
 

DPM Boosts - there are many skills that help sone ships boost DPM by 5%,10%, 19.9% 

survival  - shortening flooding and fires, accelerating repairs, additional heals 

utility - extra consumables, enemy or torp detection, AA 

while none of these will make a poor player into a great player. They can give an edge to a same skill level player. 

 

Agree 100%

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57 minutes ago, Nikolay_Kuznetsov_ said:

I have been in Co-Op since 0.8.0.

When playing Co-Op there is no need for training commanders, wearing Camo, using signals.

I do agree with the Random assessment  want to die go in NAKED.

That's a terrible way to do it, even in co-op, camo can provide more XP, FXP, Command XP and Credits for doing the same work.  Same with economic signals.  I play a mix so I save my special signals and most combat signals for other modes, but with the amount of free camo and signal's provided, why not use them, even in Co-op.  Same goes for commander skills,   why not use them?  Even if its not an 'optimal' build, its still something else that can give you an edge.

Abbye

 

Edited by Abbye
typo
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1 hour ago, Nikolay_Kuznetsov_ said:

I have been in Co-Op since 0.8.0.

When playing Co-Op there is no need for training commanders, wearing Camo, using signals.

I do agree with the Random assessment  want to die go in NAKED.

They matter but are different than some you would pick for Randoms, for instance, you generally never need Superintendent because you are lucky if you get to use 2 charges of any of them before the battle ends anyway.

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1 hour ago, Abbye said:

Same goes for commander skills,   why not use them?  Even if its not an 'optimal' build, its still something else that can give you an edge.

I generally prefer my DDs to outspot their counterparts. Even in coop. And since the bots are so good at targeting you before you are even spotted, even my cruisers enjoy not being the first ship spotted with the entire red fleet instantly having shells on the way.

Edit:

Additionally, Last Stand can be  HUGE quality of life item, even in COOP.

Edited by Sabot_100
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45 minutes ago, Abbye said:

That's a terrible way to do it, even in co-op, camo can provide more XP, FXP, Command XP and Credits for doing the same work.  Same with economic signals.  I play a mix so I save my special signals and most combat signals for other modes, but with the amount of free camo and signal's provided, why not use them, even in Co-op.  Same goes for commander skills,   why not use them?  Even if its not an 'optimal' build, its still something else that can give you an edge.

Abbye

 

As I said there is no NEED to use them but if that's what you want go for it.

I use my camo and signals in Operations where they gain Max effect.

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i setup several ships for random play before the free resets were removed... dunno why.. as I am playing mostly coop, I would like to change those specs to something more brawl/coop friendly, and not knowing what weegee is going to do with the skills, i can't justify spending dubs to reset them...  no matter what i spec to, they may turn around and break those skills too...  so no i am not 'rewarding' them for what they have done.

 

why bother.. may as well just wait... 

almost all the snow we had melted last couple days... at this rate i will have the summer car out and wows will be on the shelf until next winter before the skill changes come

 

 

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2 hours ago, jags_domain said:

there have been several threads and some youtube chatter about whether you meed commander skills.

Yes they can help in some thing especially stealth but if you run without them and do about the same.  

Then maybe all the complaining is for not?

I've taken the occasion to run ships without skills.  Yes, they do make a difference.  But as you note, with a few exceptions like CE on sneaks, they don't make that much of a difference.

IMO, most of the whinging is just that.

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For the main guns not a lot but for the secondaries and AA they are huge.

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2 hours ago, Rothgar_57 said:

Depends on the ship and tier your playing.  However skill out trumps any commander skill.

This. There were a few times early on in the rework patch where I put a commander onto a ship but it was missing in the battle itself (whether it was a bug with the actual patch or just the division ‘ready’ code) and both times I still did well without any skills. Granted they were t5/6 ships and in divisions, but the t5 ships were still Murmansk and Marblehead and I did well in both. Once I realized I didn’t have a commander in the game I did play a little more cautiously and passively than I would have otherwise, but I was still able to make both ships work. 

Commander skills/modules/etc are nice bonuses and upgrades, but they’re just that - bonuses. Player skill and ability are definitely the most important aspects of being able to play a ship well. Without the player skill, a fully built OP ship won’t be that great, but if you as a player know what you’re doing you can work around the lack of commander skills/upgrades/flags. 

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2 hours ago, iDuckman said:

I've taken the occasion to run ships without skills.  Yes, they do make a difference.  But as you note, with a few exceptions like CE on sneaks, they don't make that much of a difference.

IMO, most of the whinging is just that.

I have done my fair share!:cap_old:

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Y'know... some old timers used to suggest the use of skills actually made the battle harder for the player, something to do with RNG I suppose. 

If everyone is running the skills, camos and all the fluff fluff available for the game, in a strange way it would as if nobody was because everyone would have the same advantages. In that scenario, you would be playing at a lower competitive level if you too did not have all "the good stuff". 

Seriously here... the one I hated were camo effects... almost always puts a dent in dispersion/accuracy skills. 

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Captain's skills help.
 

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Captain skills give big advantages to people that know what they are doing.

 

By and large people that dismiss the advantages that skills and ships have with "skill trumps all" are poor players using bad logic. When good players are picking skills or ships they are almost always assuming that the enemy will play well. For example, I dont need CE, SE, or RPF on my DD if the enemy DD will just park in a smoke cloud on the cap and eat a bunch of torps, however if they are a good player its going to be a massive advantage to me if I know their general location, have an HP advantage, or can spot them for my allies while stealthed. Same with ships, there was a thread recently about Clan Battles bans specifically the Musashi, all the good players who have experience know the advantages of the Musashi, they have seen what it can do, and they know the data that shows it does well. Poor players were opposed and argued "the ship doesnt matter, stop crying" precisely because they dont understand the advantages, dont have the ability to abuse those advantages, and for some reason there is this common theme of remembering exceptional battles and applying that over the general. (i.e. I played against a musashi that missed all their shots so it doesnt seem like a scary ship to me) Or, maybe they know but they need that exclusive option as a crutch to help them win...

 

Basically the numbers are out there to show the advantages make a difference. Anybody should be able to realize that skills like CE offer a massive advantage over ships that dont have it. People  choosing to not use skills are sabotaging themselves and the teams that they force to endure such poor play. However if you are not a great player you probably wont notice much of a difference. None of the skills are an auto win so if you dont know how to take advantage 1+ km of concealment CE probably wont make any difference to you.

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2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

For the main guns not a lot but for the secondaries and AA they are huge.

I agree with this. The captain skills really do make a BIG difference for secondaries builds.

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8 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Captain skills give big advantages to people that know what they are doing.

 

 

And by players that know what they are doing you mean skilled players?

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4 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

And by players that know what they are doing you mean skilled players?

Mostly yes, I’m not really sure what the point of this question. Is there really any debate that the better a player is the better they can abuse the advantages of the skills?
 

Although there are some skills that don’t take a lot of skill. Last stand and SE for example are useful for everyone but is a lot more useful to a poor player who gets spotted accidentally than some other skills like RPF or priority target. 

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1 minute ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Mostly yes, I’m not really sure what the point of this question. Is there really any debate that the better a player is the better they can abuse the advantages of the skills?
 

Although there are some skills that don’t take a lot of skill. Last stand and SE for example are useful for everyone but is a lot more useful to a poor player who gets spotted accidentally than some other skills like RPF or priority target. 

You said that people saying skill trumps all are by and large not good, then follow it up by explaining how skilled players make the most of captains skills, contradicting the original statement..

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Skills can make or break a ship. Back when secondaries were a thing, having the necessary skills would turn a boring ship that can't hit crap, like the Bismarck, into a very fun ship to play. Now it is back at square one, so skills don't matter that much to it now.

The same holds true for lots of ships out there. Gunboat DDs being the primary example that comes to mind. 

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