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Why We Need the CIA and Other Intelligence Services

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Despite how much their reviled and ridiculed also despite the sometimes oh so stupid actions they've taken:Smile_facepalm: They at times have been responsible  for  heading off things like  https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/cuban-missile-crisis  without the intelligence services might well have led to WWIII :Smile_hiding:   And as even they'd been scaled way back they were able to head off the (all too soon burred and forgotten)1st attempt at 9/11   https://www.state.gov/1993-world-trade-center-bombing/  And then there's the successful bombing attacks on the USS Cole  and the embassies in Africa https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/uss-cole-attacked-by-terrorists    https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/world/africa/index-east-africa-bomb.html?Partner Which were only possible because how badly the intelligence services were scaled back

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29 minutes ago, shadowsrmine said:

Despite how much their reviled and ridiculed also despite the sometimes oh so stupid actions they've taken:Smile_facepalm: They at times have been responsible  for  heading off things like  https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/cuban-missile-crisis  without the intelligence services might well have led to WWIII :Smile_hiding:   And as even they'd been scaled way back they were able to head off the (all too soon burred and forgotten)1st attempt at 9/11   https://www.state.gov/1993-world-trade-center-bombing/  And then there's the successful bombing attacks on the USS Cole  and the embassies in Africa https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/uss-cole-attacked-by-terrorists    https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/world/africa/index-east-africa-bomb.html?Partner Which were only possible because how badly the intelligence services were scaled back

May I present a counter argument??? IMO, no nation needs a developed centralized intelligence agency.. Those job are handled by diplomats and the external law enforcement in some countries...

Its hard to not politicize the spook community... When you cant leave out the negative to maintain the positive (its autonomy for example) , the community can cause more casualties then going to war w/o their intel. 

The CIA has destroyed Latin America and the middle east... I am of the opinion the Intel community makes the world unstable and volatile... I based that on past precedent on the history of the CIA.


Nice topic.. Spooks live the interesting life...

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23 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

May I present a counter argument??? IMO, no nation needs a developed centralized intelligence agency.. Those job are handled by diplomats and the external law enforcement in some countries...

Its hard to not politicize the spook community... When you cant leave out the negative to maintain the positive (its autonomy for example) , the community can cause more casualties then going to war w/o their intel. 

The CIA has destroyed Latin America and the middle east... I am of the opinion the Intel community makes the world unstable and volatile... I based that on past precedent on the history of the CIA.


Nice topic.. Spooks live the interesting life...

:Smile_great:My counter counter argument 👀 The sometimes ridiculous actions The State Department  Diplomats and or Bureaucrats have made most of the CIA's Faux Pas look sensible, I'll only mention one of the most recent  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/10/21/fact-checking-the-benghazi-attacks-2/   And part and parcel of that (mainly because the same person was back of it) I'll go back to the USS Cole  and African embassy bombings, My contention being our state department is responsible for far more mainly the bureaucracy as many bureaucrats(not all but most)only got where they are by stalling and using Not Think:Smile_facepalm:

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32 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

May I present a counter argument??? IMO, no nation needs a developed centralized intelligence agency.. Those job are handled by diplomats and the external law enforcement in some countries...

Its hard to not politicize the spook community... When you cant leave out the negative to maintain the positive (its autonomy for example) , the community can cause more casualties then going to war w/o their intel. 

The CIA has destroyed Latin America and the middle east... I am of the opinion the Intel community makes the world unstable and volatile... I based that on past precedent on the history of the CIA.


Nice topic.. Spooks live the interesting life...

It is a fundamental tenet of tribal survival that some form of espionage is needed, and whomever has the best espionage gains a significant tactical advantage in the event of any conflict, large or small. The only reason an intelligence agency wouldn't be needed is if there was a single unified world government. 

BTW, Mods, you may want to lock this. It is literally impossible that this doesn't turn into a political theory and ideology discussion just by nature of the applications of the subject matter.

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Quote

Secret operations are essential in war; upon them the army relies to make its every move. -- Sun Tsu ca 500 BCE

Quote

And Joshua the son of Nun sent two men secretly from Shittim as spies, saying, “Go, view the land, especially Jericho.” -- The book of Joshua ca 550 BCE

Successful militaries have always relied on spies.

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Check out the connection between Facebook, Google and the CIA.

Then there is this:

Fom the NVN News Service, Nov. 1993:
 WASHINGTON (Nov. 4) UPI - A Senate veteran of foreign policy and intelligence matters accused elements of the Central Intelligence Agency Thursday of "engaging in a separate foreign policy" by conducting a smear campaign against elected Haitian President.   Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., a long-time member of the Foreign Relations and Intelligence committees, said he has concluded that an unflattering CIA profile of Aristide was leaked to the media in a concerted effort to discredit the deposed Haitian leader. "There is no doubt that individuals within the agency are engaging in a separate foreign policy track," Kerry said during testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee by Secretary of State Warren Christopher. "They have sought purposefully, beyond any doubt whatsoever in my mind, to place certain information in certain hands in an effort to run a course counter to the policy of this country. That is very perfidious, dangerous undertaking."

From the Prodigy News service, 3-19-95:
  NEW YORK--The CIA brought the blind clecric accused of
masterminding a terror campaign against the US government
into the country to rally support for Islamic
fundamentalists fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, New
York Magazine reports.....
  The "jihad," or holy war, offices were American CIA
outposts for the CIA-funded Mujahedeen fighting the
occupying Soviets....
  CIA spokesman Vin Swayze said Saturday that the agency
would have no comment on the magazine report......(from AP)
 
From the Seattle Times, 4-18-95, page A6:
  WASHINGTON - The CIA yesterday denied FBI allegations that
the agency destroyed crucial computer evidence against
terrorist suspect Ramzi Yousef.
  If such evidence was destroyed, it did not happen while in
the CIA custody, said a CIA spokesman.
  Newsday reported Sunday that the FBI believes that files
on a computer hard drive and three floppy disks found in
Yousef's Manilia apartment were altered or destroyed while
in the custody of the CIA.

 

From a book review on the Prodigy service, Nov. 14, 1993:
  Michale Levine has a mantel-full of citations for 25 years
of work as a federal narcotics expert....Because of his
background, his contention that the CIA is massively
involved in drug trafficking and bears heavy responsibility
for the cocaine coming across our borders is astounding.  In
The Big White Lie (Thunder's Mouth, 448 pp, $22.95),
however, that is exactly his contention.  In his
introductions, Levine quotes Sen John Kerry, (D-Mass) as
saying during the Iran-Contra hearings that "our covert
agents had converted themselves into channels for the flow
of drugs into the United States."  He also quotes Kerry's
chief investigator, Jack Blum, who quit, saying: "I am sick
to death of the truths that cannot be spoken." Levine
maintains that as a DEA agent he witnessed "the most
scandalous of these truths."

  From the Prodigy News Service, Nov. 14, 1993:
  NEW YORK--The CIA created an intelligence service in Haiti
to fight drug trafficking but the unit became an instrument
of terror and its officers engaged in drug trafficking,
according to a published report.  Senior members of the
unit, which produced little information about narcotics,
committed acts of political terror against supporters of
Rev. Jean-Bertrand Aristide, including interrogations and
torture, today's NY Times reports.  Members of the unit also
threatened last year to kill the local chief of the US Drug
Enforcement Administration, the Times reports.

  From The News Tribune (Tacoma, Washington), Oct. 27, 1994:
  WASHINGTON - The former top U.S. drug-enforcement offical
in Myanmar has sued the former top State Department and
CIA officals based in the Asian nation, saying they tapped
his phone, subverted his anti-drug efforts and expelled him
from the country.  The lawsuit by Richard Horn, a Drug
Enforcement Administration special agent, is the latest of a
series of embarrassing clashes between U.S. drug-enforcement
officals and their counterparts in the intelligence and
diplomatic services.

 

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