The Salt Mines Overlord take on the Flamu debacle

[Bandi73]

As per the title.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

Appeal to authority is the worst type of argument.

"Jingles says it so it must be right." No, it doesn't have to be.

[Bandi73]

3 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Appeal to authority is the worst type of argument.

"Jingles says it so it must be right." No, it doesn't have to be.

As surprising as it could seem,  I agree with you 100%. But I don't think that you watched the video :)

[Navalpride33]

An opinion about a nasty divorce between a Finnish farmer and WG...

Where I come from, this^^ can pass as a good Korean Soap Oprah

[Bandi73]

9 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

An opinion about a nasty divorce between a Finnish farmer and WG...

Where I come from, this^^ can pass as a good Korean Soap Oprah

 I would go instead with the J Springer variant. Especially the we are already in it :).Nevertheless is not what you think.

[Taylor3006]

33 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Appeal to authority is the worst type of argument.

"Jingles says it so it must be right." No, it doesn't have to be.

I have zero reason not to believe what Jingles is saying. There was no argument, just relaying to viewers his experience is all. I haven't listened to a Jingles video since the carrier rework/PR debacle (can't remember which came last) but it is good to hear him again. Of all the people who make content for WoWS, WoWP, and WoT, Jingles is the only one I trust. He has earned it because he has never given me a reason not to trust him. I see no reason not to believe him now. 

[SoothingWhaleSongEU]

They're fairly obvious points but Jingles makes them well.

[Parliament_Funkadelic]

15:54 mark listen for about 12 seconds.

[_WaveRider_]

26 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

I have zero reason not to believe what Jingles is saying. There was no argument, just relaying to viewers his experience is all. I haven't listened to a Jingles video since the carrier rework/PR debacle (can't remember which came last) but it is good to hear him again. Of all the people who make content for WoWS, WoWP, and WoT, Jingles is the only one I trust. He has earned it because he has never given me a reason not to trust him. I see no reason not to believe him now. 

He is a CC that has generally given reasonable comments on topics in the past. Hasn't been particularly salty or over exaggerated.

I am more likely to listen to him and what he has to say, more than someone who is obviously trying to get more involved with WG and whose input has steadily changed to reflect that (CC drive maybe? @Ensign_Cthulhu).

 

[Bandi73]

1 hour ago, Taylor3006 said:

I have zero reason not to believe what Jingles is saying. There was no argument, just relaying to viewers his experience is all. I haven't listened to a Jingles video since the carrier rework/PR debacle (can't remember which came last) but it is good to hear him again. Of all the people who make content for WoWS, WoWP, and WoT, Jingles is the only one I trust. He has earned it because he has never given me a reason not to trust him. I see no reason not to believe him now. 

Thank you.

[SkaerKrow]

And if Jingles hadn’t burned all of his objective credibility by pandering to the outrage crowd for the past two years, his take on the Flamu reckoning might actually be worth something. 

[Hukom]

"Wargaming's priority is to screw us all for as much money as they possibly can, but not quite so much that we realize that we are being screwed."

[WarStore]

8 minutes ago, Hukom said:

"Wargaming's priority is to screw us all for as much money as they possibly can, but not quite so much that we realize that we are being screwed."

Gold. 

But I do think some people wouldn't want to realize anyway.

[HallaSnackbar]

43 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

And if Jingles hadn’t burned all of his objective credibility by pandering to the outrage crowd for the past two years, his take on the Flamu reckoning might actually be worth something. 

Pretty much this, he is entertaining but in a National Enquirer sort of way.

[Taylor3006]

56 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

And if Jingles hadn’t burned all of his objective credibility by pandering to the outrage crowd for the past two years, his take on the Flamu reckoning might actually be worth something. 

Or it could be opinions he held himself. How can you possibly know what Jingle's motivation behind any of his videos are especially something as subjective as that? I mean seriously, some of you people are just making crap up now to seem relevant.  

[Bandi73]

1 hour ago, SkaerKrow said:

And if Jingles hadn’t burned all of his objective credibility by pandering to the outrage crowd for the past two years, his take on the Flamu reckoning might actually be worth something. 

Just.....lolz.... 

[iRA6E]

Why is anyone surprised that WG cut someone from their community contributor program (Please note the "THEIR")  that spent the last 2 years beating them over the head in front of their plentiful community.    I'd feel most intelligent folks would understand that that program would be considered a marketing tool for the company.   Viewing Flamu as a profitable marketing tool at this point?  is any of this a stretch to absolutely anyone?     This isn't a community REPRESENTATIVE or a game CRITIC program..  it's a community CONTRIBUTOR program, that I'm sure the companies primary desire & goal for is to introduce new players and stimulate favorable views of their product.   If your not doing that...   Why would they keep you?    Jingles has some deep tentacles at WG right now..   But I'd I'd be surprised someone there  isn't starting to wonder what he is contributing at this point too?   

[SoothingWhaleSongEU]

9 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

Why is anyone surprised that WG cut someone from their community contributor program (Please note the "THEIR")  that spent the last 2 years beating them over the head in front of their plentiful community.    I'd feel most intelligent folks would understand that that program would be considered a marketing tool for the company.   Viewing Flamu as a profitable marketing tool at this point?  is any of this a stretch to absolutely anyone?     This isn't a community REPRESENTATIVE or a game CRITIC program..  it's a community CONTRIBUTOR program, that I'm sure the companies primary desire & goal for is to introduce new players and stimulate favorable views of their product.   If your not doing that...   Why would they keep you?    Jingles has some deep tentacles at WG right now..   But I'd I'd be surprised someone there  isn't starting to wonder what he is contributing at this point too?   

So, as much as Flamu whines (and I feel much of it is justified), he still plays WoWS a vast amount and plays it very well. And he has over 100K followers on Youtube.

And he goes into depth explaining mechanics, which engages people's interests. In much the same way that LWM's reviews which will blast a rubbish Premium might make me far more inclined to buy another premium if she states it's interesting, and gets myself (and likely others) engaged and invested with the mechanics.

It's not quite all publicity is good publicity, but taking up mindspace is good for a game.

[Ranari]

5 minutes ago, SoothingWhaleSongEU said:

So, as much as Flamu whines (and I feel much of it is justified), he still plays WoWS a vast amount and plays it very well. And he has over 100K followers on Youtube.

And he goes into depth explaining mechanics, which engages people's interests. In much the same way that LWM's reviews which will blast a rubbish Premium might make me far more inclined to buy another premium if she states it's interesting, and gets myself (and likely others) engaged and invested with the mechanics.

It's not quite all publicity is good publicity, but taking up mindspace is good for a game.

The community contributor program is a branding tool for war gaming, and in order to effectively brand your company you have to successfully do three things:  1) Create a positive experience, 2) Create awareness, and 3) Do #1 and #2 over a long period of time. Like you said, Flamu does play the game a lot, can be quite objective with his content, and is a very good player to watch. This fulfills #2 and #3 quite well.  The downside is that Flamu is extremely negative, and he creates a very toxic environment if he watch him long enough. This is absolutely horrible, in fact downright destructive to a company's bottom line. Honestly, I'm surprised it took them this long to remove him from the community contributor program, and I wouldn't be surprised if a few other community contributors were to be axed alongside him.  

The thing to be careful with, is that branding works both ways. If you were consistently negative and creative toxic atmosphere with your content, then you are going to negatively brand a company, This has an enormous effect on a company's bottom line. There are numerous studies that support this, and is the very reason why branding is a multi-hundreds-of-billion dollar market.

[iRA6E]

19 minutes ago, SoothingWhaleSongEU said:

So, as much as Flamu whines (and I feel much of it is justified), he still plays WoWS a vast amount and plays it very well. And he has over 100K followers on Youtube.

And he goes into depth explaining mechanics, which engages people's interests. In much the same way that LWM's reviews which will blast a rubbish Premium might make me far more inclined to buy another premium if she states it's interesting, and gets myself (and likely others) engaged and invested with the mechanics.

It's not quite all publicity is good publicity, but taking up mindspace is good for a game.

Well they'll get that same "partially good" publicity without being attached to it or spending any investment in.  Because like it or not..  I'm sure he doesn't.. WOWS is Flamu's cash cow...   Amazingly, he's literally eating from the well he  in daily.    And I imagine this will set a new standard of what they expect from the program going forward...  this is a business to them.  It's their playground & their ball...    I have no idea why they let it go on so long.    Kudos for Jingles for calling out the obvious here, regardless of how [edited] towards them he did it.  This is a F2P game, we all knew that the day we walked in the door...   At least Jingles has a lot of audience in other games.. a luxury that Flamu doesn't have.   If Flamu wants to really be the hero...  Why doesn't he leave it?  Clearly he doesn't care for it anymore.  Could be he's selling out for the money,. exactly the same as he is calling out  company he now has such a boner for.    Funny what happens when it becomes about the money.      

[guns_at_last_light]

When I think of how WG bungled Flamu's getting kicked out as a CC, I think of John Hurt's character in "A History of Violence" excoriating his henchman for not being able to kill the unarmed character played by Viggo Mortenson. How do you you screw that up?

It isn't that WG didn't have a business reason for kicking him out, it's that they screwed something up that should have been so simple: say that you are removing him for being overly critical of the company. Sure, WG would have had the community call it thin skinned for a while, but it probably would have blown over faster than claiming it was for toxicity.

[JCC45]

                             

[MackDye]

5 hours ago, Bandi73 said:

As per the title.

There is no Flamu debacle. The kid is a juvenile delinquent and deserved to lose his CC status. He belittles other players. Constantly talks trash on WG employees. He clearly didn't get spanked enough as a child.

[mcgibe]

While I think most of jingles video on this "drama" was pretty good (staying out of it for the most part and seeing that there isn't much drama here), I disagree with him on two points. That being statshaming is ok because wargaming gives you a tool to do it, and that flamu admits to when he's wrong.

In terms of the statshaming bit, stating that it's justified because wargaming gives you the tools is just like stating being a toxic jerk in chat is justified because wargaming gives you the option to. It's not a pick and choose, both are wrong to do.

On flamu admitting he's in the wrong, welp, I'll just say that flamu is wrong and has been wrong before. The most egregious being Bagration being "better than kutuzov" and Tallinn being a "soviet super hipper". There are other examples, but I don't want to keep going since this isn't a flamu rage thread. I will just say that we haven't seen any admission of wrongdoing on this part. (And this may have strayed a little far from jingles original point, but I'll leave it here).

I will say though, that jingles is completely right on the response to this situation. Flamu got removed and he's happy. His followers are happy. The people who don't like him are happy. And wargaming is probably happy.

Everybody wins and is happy.... for now

[tcbaker777]

is it just me, or does that island at 14:50 look exactly like the Taiho or Essex?