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xamdam

Low Tier

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So, I figured I'd try to round out my PVP randoms battle count at 5K. I need 85 more battles. I got it! Tier 2! No CVs, use premium ships, mount 21pt captains, have fun! (I've basically stopped playing randoms since the CV rework...)

5 min queues for 1:1 or 3:3 (humans, the rest bots). For some reason, I seem to be getting the drunk bots as they are mostly dead a few mins in and I'm left fending off the an exceedingly lopsided amount of fire while the enemy humans are laughing in the background enjoying the show, at full hp. 

Last battle, in my Diana.

81K damage.
8 kills
Confederate

Kraken

Double strike X 2
Close Quarters X2
High Caliber

The enemy human sat in my cap zone cheering me on while I battled his bots... He was full HP, didn't even fire on me that I could tell. My bots managed to kill 2.

So, this is what the game has come to at this tier? No ideas on how to improve it WeeGee? The Diana is a beauty of a ship. Too bad it's just a port queen.
 

Screenshot 2021-03-08 175253.png

Screenshot 2021-03-08 175437.png

Edited by xamdam

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10 minutes ago, xamdam said:

So, this is what the game has come to at this tier? No ideas on how to improve it WeeGee?

Few things.

  • Bots are in place to stop the Random wait...
  • They're addressing the issue with a lot of recruitment drives...

I've been saying this since 2018, if low tiers dont have any blood (fresh or otherwise).. Then the game will start to bleed out from the top...

 

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You’re not going to find any new players at Tier 2 because new players get protected matchmaking. The only people you will encounter at that tier are clubbers and people leveling new lines.

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1 hour ago, Compassghost said:

You’re not going to find any new players at Tier 2 because new players get protected matchmaking. The only people you will encounter at that tier are clubbers and people leveling new lines.

Wasn't looking for "new" players. I'm aware of the protected matchmaking. I was just looking for... players. There were almost none.

 

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Maybe what I'm asking is... if they can't fix Operations (that they've pulled, I don't mean continually nerfing the ones we've got left...), perhaps they can work on the last part of PVP that doesn't include CVs? Or is that too much to ask? lol

 

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Update 0.9.6 in July 2020 separated "new players" from old when they're playing tiers 1 - 4.

When they play at 5+, they're in the full match maker queue, regardless of how many games they've played.

From my own experience with the French cruisers on this tiny alt account it took the 3 mandatory co-op games and 14 random battles to research my first tier 5. This was just using the free premium days and similar resources you get with a new account (I think using an Extra Credits new player code IIRC). Of course I had the benefit of over 5000 games on my EU account.

I do however entirely agree that tiers 1-4 could do with some love and attention, as there are plenty of interesting ships with important history down there, and the structure of the game is different from mid to high tiers.  Even just contributing to daily combat missions would be a nice change.

Spoiler

Low-Tier Matchmaker Changes

When playing low-tier ships (Tiers I through V) in Random Battles, teams often entered battle with an incomplete roster. Such a situation could occur due to the fact that most of the activity in our game take place at higher tiers. Now, if the waiting time spent by the first player in the queue exceeds 3 minutes, the remaining places in the teams will be occupied by bots.

  • In Tier I–IV battles, bots are equal in strength to the bots in Co-op Battles.
  • In Tier V battles, bots have received improved AI and fight at the skill level of those in Operations.

Matchmaker Changes for Newcomers

  • The number of battles a player needs to fight in order to be placed in the general queue for Random Battles has been increased from 69 to 200. Thus a new player will gain more game experience before moving on to general Random Battles. If any newcomers decide they are ready to fight with experienced players, they will be able to enter battle playing Tier V ships:
  • A player who has played 200 battles or less and enters battle playing Tier I–IV ships will be placed in the queue for newcomers only.
  • A player who has played 200 battles or less and enters battle playing a ship of Tier V or above will be placed in the general queue.
  • Players who have played more than 200 battles will always be placed in the general queue.
  • If the waiting time spent by the first player in the queue exceeds 3 minutes, battles are possible where there is only one live player mirrored by a bot. In this case, the rest of the player’s team will be filled out with bots, and the opposing team will also be filled with bots, mirroring the player’s team in terms of ship tiers and types.

Matchmaker Changes in Low-Tier Random Battles

  • In Tier I–V Random Battles, bots will be added until complete teams are formed if the waiting time spent by the first player in the queue exceeds 3 minutes. A battle will only be matched if the general queue contains at least one pair of players playing ships of the same tier.
  • If players have ships of different types, then after 3 minutes of waiting in the queue, they will be mirrored by bot ships of the same types and tiers, and the teams will be complemented with bots within the limits for ship types and tiers for this particular battle tier. It means each team will have the same number of bots.
  • A visual notification about the maximum waiting time and possibility of matching bots to the battle has been added to the battle loading screen.


 

 

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5 minutes ago, xamdam said:

Wasn't looking for "new" players. I'm aware of the protected matchmaking. I was just looking for... players. There were almost none.

 

It is rare for veterans to go that low, for a variety of reasons (no missions can be done there, mostly). So it shouldn't be strange to not find any player at tier II if you re a veteran

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Just now, hanesco said:

It is rare for veterans to go that low, for a variety of reasons (no missions can be done there, mostly). So it shouldn't be strange to not find any player at tier II if you re a veteran

No go zone? Damn, why do I keep those ships in my port?

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Just now, xamdam said:

No go zone? Damn, why do I keep those ships in my port?

 

Just now, xamdam said:

No go zone? Damn, why do I keep those ships in my port?

I have them too, in the hope that low tier matchmaking get some love. My hopes are (very) small, but they are still there.

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10 minutes ago, xamdam said:

 is that too much to ask?

 

I think maybe I've just answered my own question.

Played a Tier III round in the awesome Dreadnought shortly after the match above and yep, an enemy Hosho to deal with. While it wasn't that hard, it was still annoying as hell having to "take it" while I couldn't do a damned thing in return until I finally got the bugger in the open. Had he continued to use islands for cover, I probably wouldn't have got him. He would have whittled me down with a final, tick, tick, tick, sunk... flooding or fire.

That's just wrong. Not fun, not engaging, not even tempting.

So, they can either do something to encourage Tier 1~2 play for "vets" (I'm all for protected matchmaking), give us CV free game modes or more love to operations. Otherwise, what's the point? Has this game really become a CV (arcade) sim? Do the rest of us just have to "deal with it"? What happened to the fun? Are subs going to make it that much better? lol

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Low tiers are fun to play.  It is a shame there aren't more players there to populate them.  That is partially the players' fault (not much interest), and partially WG's fault (not adding low tier incentives to boost interest). 

WG should add some credit missions for low tiers.  Or missions for signals.  Or Free XP missions (let's be honest...even with earning boosts, at low tiers you aren't going to earn much Free XP.  But, it may convince a few players, anyway).

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3 minutes ago, xamdam said:

I think maybe I've just answered my own question.

Played a Tier III round in the awesome Dreadnought shortly after the match above and yep, an enemy Hosho to deal with. While it wasn't that hard, it was still annoying as hell having to "take it" while I couldn't do a damned thing in return until I finally got the bugger in the open. Had he continued to use islands for cover, I probably wouldn't have got him. He would have whittled me down with a final, tick, tick, tick, sunk... flooding or fire.

That's just wrong. Not fun, not engaging, not even tempting.

So, they can either do something to encourage Tier 1~2 play for "vets" (I'm all for protected matchmaking), give us CV free game modes or more love to operations. Otherwise, what's the point? Has this game really become a CV (arcade) sim? Do the rest of us just have to "deal with it"? What happened to the fun? Are subs going to make it that much better? lol

the reason why lower tiers look like a ghost town is simple, there are no reason to go there and will keep that way as long as WG keeps making all the events and missions t5+   or with fixed requiremens that are much easier to pull on higher tiers.

 

convince WG to include all tiers on the missions and may be drop a few buff to low tier AA and those tiers will be full of humans again.

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11 minutes ago, pepe_trueno said:

there are no reason to go there and will keep that way as long as WG keeps making all the events and missions t5+

Sadly true. When I'm on stream I'll take suggestions to go play low-tier randoms. I don't like to do it a lot because I know there are newbs who raced up to T5, or bought themselves a Warspite or Texas or something like that and played it, and thereby took themselves straight out of the kiddy pond forever.

And because I've still got a bad taste in my mouth from iChase's vid where he tried to show how stupidly powerful two-torp Hosho was by divving up with a clanmate in a Nikolai and going clubbing with it. And barely pulled out the win.

That's my reason for not playing low-tier randoms much, although paradoxically, having the bots down there makes it somewhat more ethical. Fortunately, I haven't needed to grind a T4 carrier at all since the CV rework, because I got the T6's in earlybird events. I played the Rhein in Randoms a little bit, but that was mostly to grab the permacamo they offered. Then I got the Weser unlock in a box and I haven't touched the Rhein since.

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37 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Sadly true. When I'm on stream I'll take suggestions to go play low-tier randoms. I don't like to do it a lot because I know there are newbs who raced up to T5, or bought themselves a Warspite or Texas or something like that and played it, and thereby took themselves straight out of the kiddy pond forever.

I'm still a tad confused, although ironically in an ideal state to experiment, so maybe I should.

But my understanding from the patch note wording is that if you have less than 200 matches, play a tier 5 but then *go back down* to tier 4 or lower, then you still have protected matchmaker.

Edited by SoothingWhaleSongEU

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1 hour ago, desmo_2 said:

Low tiers are fun to play.  It is a shame there aren't more players there to populate them.  That is partially the players' fault (not much interest), and partially WG's fault (not adding low tier incentives to boost interest). 

WG should add some credit missions for low tiers.  Or missions for signals.  Or Free XP missions (let's be honest...even with earning boosts, at low tiers you aren't going to earn much Free XP.  But, it may convince a few players, anyway).

This makes sense, though I'd lay more of the blame on WG. They have the spreadsheets, after all...

It used to be easy to pop on down for a bit o' nostalgic low tier fun. Now, nothing there. Might as well play COOP. The queue will be four and a half minutes faster (they say unlimited, but it cuts off at 5 mins and fills it with bots).

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there is no money in it....   or at least they can't think of a way to generate revenues from low tiers.. it is that simple.

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Low tiers = cheap ships

One high tier ship will generate more income than several low tier ships, and players tend to gravitate towards the top tiers as if it is some type of endgame.  So, WG puts incentives at the top and none at the bottom.  The bad part of this is that it creates a ghost town at the bottom, where there is some fun to be had.  

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2 hours ago, SoothingWhaleSongEU said:

I'm still a tad confused, although ironically in an ideal state to experiment, so maybe I should.

But my understanding from the patch note wording is that if you have less than 200 matches, play a tier 5 but then *go back down* to tier 4 or lower, then you still have protected matchmaker.

My understanding was always that once you've played a single match at T5, you are out of the kiddie pool forever.

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Regarding the protected matchmaking--what happens to the new player if he divs up with a more experienced player?  That whole mentoring thing, you know?

 

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It's a vicious cycle that feeds on itself: low/no players, people stop queueing, then even lower number of players at that particular line.

I even stopped queueing anything below tier 7 after certain points at night.

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WG wants experienced players to stay out of low tiers, period, for several reason:

  • To avoid clubbing new players and making them leave
  • To concentrate the player base in a smaller number of tiers (V-X) for faster matchmaking
  • Because low-tier premium ships weren't as profitable (same cost to model, but lower sticker price)
  • Because gameplay mechanics at low tier are not well tuned, and it's easier to retire than fix them

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4 hours ago, SoothingWhaleSongEU said:

I'm still a tad confused, although ironically in an ideal state to experiment, so maybe I should.

But my understanding from the patch note wording is that if you have less than 200 matches, play a tier 5 but then *go back down* to tier 4 or lower, then you still have protected matchmaker.

No, I think once you play in the big pond, you are not allowed back into the kiddie pool anymore.

 

1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

My understanding was always that once you've played a single match at T5, you are out of the kiddie pool forever.

Me too.

 

46 minutes ago, ogrejager said:

Regarding the protected matchmaking--what happens to the new player if he divs up with a more experienced player?  That whole mentoring thing, you know?

You can division but you will not get protected MM if someone in the division does not meet the protected criteria.  As long as you stay at T4 or lower, you will remain in protected matchmaking as long as you play solo, or if everyone in the division meets the protected criteria.

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6 hours ago, xamdam said:

No go zone? Damn, why do I keep those ships in my port?

Better question is why do they still exist?

 

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5 hours ago, Edgecase said:

WG wants experienced players to stay out of low tiers, period, for several reason:

  • To avoid clubbing new players and making them leave
  • To concentrate the player base in a smaller number of tiers (V-X) for faster matchmaking
  • Because low-tier premium ships weren't as profitable (same cost to model, but lower sticker price)
  • Because gameplay mechanics at low tier are not well tuned, and it's easier to retire than fix them

1) quite sure t4 cvs are far more toxic for new players than seasoned players with 21 points captains 

2)  debatable, if they are so desperate to speed the quew there are far better way than pushing everyone into the high tiers

3) ding ding ding  i think we have a winner, only real reason to keep pushing everyone into the high tiers

4)i find the oposite to be true, low tier balance is surprisingly good, no flametrhowers or radar or huge torpedo walls or ships that can nail you from 25km away.

 

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1 hour ago, pepe_trueno said:

quite sure t4 cvs are far more toxic for new players than seasoned players with 21 points captains 

 Not if they're driven by other new players. It took me quite a while to get my carriers to the point where they weren't completely useless.

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