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CylonRed

Ahhhhh - After going back to CAs and got the Mino went back

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Last I checked Minotaur was a CL not a CA.

~Hunter

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23 minutes ago, Hunter_Steel said:

Last I checked Minotaur was a CL not a CA.

~Hunter

Darn, you beat me to it. :Smile_hiding:

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1 hour ago, Hunter_Steel said:

Last I checked Minotaur was a CL not a CA.

~Hunter

I was thinking the exact same thing, Hunter.  :cap_like:

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I do not distinguishing between cruiser types because I don't know them...  So every cruiser is a CA for me.

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10 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

I do not distinguishing between cruiser types because I don't know them...  So every cruiser is a CA for me.

case CLosed.

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5 hours ago, CylonRed said:

I do not distinguishing between cruiser types because I don't know them...  So every cruiser is a CA for me.

In general, cruisers were categorized primarily according to their gun caliber. The naming convention generally used throughout the 20th century arose out of the definitions utilized in the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922 among the victorious major powers of WWI (the US, France, UK, Italy, and Japan). The distinction comes up a lot in these forums because it also happens that many of the game mechanics effect the play styles of cruisers depending on similar distinctions based on gun size, making such a distinction convenient.

CL (light cruiser): Guns less than or equal to 155mm

CA (heavy cruiser): Guns greater than or equal to 190mm. The new British Hawkins-class was utilized as the model for the definition of a Treaty-era “heavy cruiser.”

The 180mm gunned Soviet cruisers in game (Kirov, Molotov, Mikoyan, D. Donskoi, A. Nevsky, and Tallinn) are in a bit of a grey area for a few reasons. The Soviet Union wasn’t a signatory of the Washington and later London Naval Treaties, so they never felt bound by the nomenclature of the other powers. The Soviets classified ships that were built with these guns (Kirov and Molotov) as CLs despite having guns in excess of 155mm in diameter. In addition, of the three tech tree ships on the list, two of them are a part of the Soviet “light” cruiser line, while the other is the first ship in the “heavy” branch, with general playstyles to match. The way WG set up the Heavy AP Shells skill (only affects 190mm or greater guns) suggests that these ships are considered CLs by WG using the Soviet definition despite the fact that Tallinn also has the unique Soviet heavy cruiser dispersion curve and AP characteristics shared by her successors, Riga and Petropavlovsk. Keep in mind that the Soviets also had a fixation on having bigger guns than their rivals, and this can also be seen in their CA designs of the era that mounted 220mm guns in contrast to the standard 203mm caliber (which was the maximum gun caliber permitted among the signatories of the Washington and London Treaties).

Personally, given how muddy this is, I define them by the way they interact with game mechanics and their other characteristics. Thus, they are all CLs expect arguably Tallinn, due to her placement in the tech tree and her specific gun flavor.

Edited by Nevermore135
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Minotaur traditionally has been a pretty influential ship because she tended to contest caps and be hell for DDs.  But that playstyle, combined with the light armor and gargantuan Citadel she has, means that she's extremely unforgiving.  You slip up with Minotaur and get caught for it, chances are, you won't survive to make a second fail in that game.  Most especially if a BB, CA / Super Cruiser catches you.

You.

Are.

Done.

I know some guys do well with her, I recall even some nutjobs doing Radar Minotaur (give up Smoke and slot Radar instead) and be a menace that way, and actually win.  But it's a hard, unforgiving style of play.

 

I did okay with her, but I already stressed my butt off already playing Des Moines.  I love DM but the style is stressful.  I don't need more stress as a cap contesting Cruiser.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

know some guys do well with her, I recall even some nutjobs doing Radar Minotaur (give up Smoke and slot Radar instead) and be a menace that way, and actually win.  But it's a hard, unforgiving style of play

Can confirm, Minotaur is essentially the definition of a glass cannon. 

And radartaur is even harder - but oh, so good if the enemy team doesn’t support their DDs and/or otherwise inexplicably leaves you alone to do your work...

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4 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Can confirm, Minotaur is essentially the definition of a glass cannon. 

And radartaur is even harder - but oh, so good if the enemy team doesn’t support their DDs and/or otherwise inexplicably leaves you alone to do your work...

Part of the reason is Radar Minos are so rare.  Typical preference is the safety of Smoke.  One of the few Radar Cruisers where Radar range exceeds its Stealth Build concealment range.  In her case, it's exceeded by 0.95km.  Lord help you if you're a DD and you run into a Radar Mino in a 1-on-1 situation.  You're about 1km deep in her Radar range and she fires very fast, and RNCL AP is still deadly to DDs.  Chuck torps at Radar Mino if you want.  She has Hydro also.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Radar Mino and DD pairings are a brutal combination 

CLs in general are not thriving in the current Meta.

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13 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

In general, cruisers were categorized primarily according to their gun caliber. The naming convention generally used throughout the 20th century arose out of the definitions utilized in the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922 among the victorious major powers of WWI (the US, France, UK, Italy, and Japan). The distinction comes up a lot in these forums because it also happens that many of the game mechanics effect the play styles of cruisers depending on similar distinctions based on gun size, making such a distinction convenient.

CL (light cruiser): Guns less than or equal to 155mm

CA (heavy cruiser): Guns greater than or equal to 190mm. The new British Hawkins-class was utilized as the model for the definition of a Treaty-era “heavy cruiser.”

The 180mm gunned Soviet cruisers in game (Kirov, Molotov, Mikoyan, D. Donskoi, A. Nevsky, and Tallinn) are in a bit of a grey area for a few reasons. The Soviet Union wasn’t a signatory of the Washington and later London Naval Treaties, so they never felt bound by the nomenclature of the other powers. The Soviets classified ships that were built with these guns (Kirov and Molotov) as CLs despite having guns in excess of 155mm in diameter. In addition, of the three tech tree ships on the list, two of them are a part of the Soviet “light” cruiser line, while the other is the first ship in the “heavy” branch, with general playstyles to match. The way WG set up the Heavy AP Shells skill (only affects 190mm or greater guns) suggests that these ships are considered CLs by WG using the Soviet definition despite the fact that Tallinn also has the unique Soviet heavy cruiser dispersion curve and AP characteristics shared by her successors, Riga and Petropavlovsk. Keep in mind that the Soviets also had a fixation on having bigger guns than their rivals, and this can also be seen in their CA designs of the era that mounted 220mm guns in contrast to the standard 203mm caliber (which was the maximum gun caliber permitted among the signatories of the Washington and London Treaties).

Personally, given how muddy this is, I define them by the way they interact with game mechanics and their other characteristics. Thus, they are all CLs expect arguably Tallinn, due to her placement in the tech tree and her specific gun flavor.

Yea....  They are all still CAs for me... sorry.

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14 hours ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

Radartaur with RPF is straight savage.

I tried playing that a few times, it's just I wasn't good enough.  Regular Mino stressed me out enough lol

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