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LtMFDann

Positive Dead Eye Rant

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As a closed beta tester I've been playing this game for quite some time now.  I have quit playing multiple times usually because I get so disgusted with the dispersion. I want to play games that take skill and not chance (RNG).

The problem is the HE issues around the UK BB's (combined with deadeye)... Its been that way for years and is never fully called out. 

Dead eye only exposes the worse players (those that sit in one position and those that travel in a straight line).  They'll either learn to play right or get farmed. To suggest that deadeye is to blame for the meta is completely false for multiple reasons.. I'll list what I think is the top 3.

1. UK BB line combined with deadeye has exposed how ridiculous the fire chance of these ships are.  2 salvos at any angle potentially kills a T10 battle ship.  This is directly responsible for the passive play we're seeing now.

2. It is easily countered by a DD pushing within detect range.

3.  WASD is still your best friend learn to use it. Along with the minimap.

I am completely thrilled with how dead eye works.  I wouldn't change a thing. I mean that idea that some one can predict movement, lead a target and land more than one or 2 shells has you all upset? In a warship game? Really?

I'm sure I'll get raked over the coals for this but I don't care.  This is the most fun I've had in game for years.

In closing NERF UK HE fire chances as it should have never been this way from the beginning. Or make deadeye for AP only.

Edited by LtMFDann
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I dont use deadeye ever. I tried it for a few days and the tactical problems are not improved. So I quit using that.

Its so sad WG wants to rework the game but issue a crappy skill like dead eye and then wonder why the unexpected or wanted player behavior comes up. So tragic. Better that they never did the rework at all and introduced a skillrow 5 in addition to the four we possessed and increased commander skill points to 30.

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26 minutes ago, LtMFDann said:

As a closed beta tester I've been playing this game for quite some time now.  I have quit playing multiple times usually because I get so disgusted with the dispersion. I want to play games that take skill and not chance (RNG).

The problem is the HE issues around the UK BB's (combined with deadeye)... Its been that way for years and is never fully called out. 

Dead eye only exposes the worse players (those that sit in one position and those that travel in a straight line).  They'll either learn to play right or get farmed. To suggest that deadeye is to blame for the meta is completely false for multiple reasons.. I'll list what I think is the top 3.

1. UK BB line combined with deadeye has exposed how ridiculous the fire chance of these ships are.  2 salvos at any angle potentially kills a T10 battle ship.  This is directly responsible for the passive play we're seeing now.

2. It is easily countered by a DD pushing within detect range.

3.  WASD is still your best friend learn to use it. Along with the minimap.

I am completely thrilled with how dead eye works.  I wouldn't change a thing. I mean that idea that some one can predict movement, lead a target and land more than one or 2 shells has you all upset? In a warship game? Really?

I'm sure I'll get raked over the coals for this but I don't care.  This is the most fun I've had in game for years.

In closing NERF UK HE fire chances as it should have never been this way from the beginning. Or make deadeye for AP only.

With dead eye I am an incredible Ohio player.  Without it, I hit things sometimes.

 

All British ships need to be nerved fire chance.  BB and CA get a fire every salvo and do incredible damage. 

Make the damage negligible or reduce fire chance alot. 

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30 minutes ago, LtMFDann said:

.

2. It is easily countered by a DD pushing within detect range.
 

It seems you don't understand how deadeye works.

Edited by WarStore
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31 minutes ago, LtMFDann said:

To suggest that deadeye is to blame for the meta is completely false for multiple reasons

While I agree with this statement in general and believe that Dead eye has exposed an issue in the game, I think that Dead Eye when combined with other skill changes has created the current meta. A meta we have not seen before. 

31 minutes ago, LtMFDann said:

2. It is easily countered by a DD pushing within detect range.

This I disagree with. It is not enough for the DD to be in the BBs detection range, it must be spotted for dead eye to stop applying. And if a DD is spotted, it is usually focused and dies. 

I have tried this tactic with my DDs, it is very situational. 

Edited by Geococcyx

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1 hour ago, LtMFDann said:

As a closed beta tester I've been playing this game for quite some time now.  I have quit playing multiple times usually because I get so disgusted with the dispersion. I want to play games that take skill and not chance (RNG).

The problem is the HE issues around the UK BB's (combined with deadeye)... Its been that way for years and is never fully called out. 

Dead eye only exposes the worse players (those that sit in one position and those that travel in a straight line).  They'll either learn to play right or get farmed. To suggest that deadeye is to blame for the meta is completely false for multiple reasons.. I'll list what I think is the top 3.

1. UK BB line combined with deadeye has exposed how ridiculous the fire chance of these ships are.  2 salvos at any angle potentially kills a T10 battle ship.  This is directly responsible for the passive play we're seeing now.

2. It is easily countered by a DD pushing within detect range.

3.  WASD is still your best friend learn to use it. Along with the minimap.

I am completely thrilled with how dead eye works.  I wouldn't change a thing. I mean that idea that some one can predict movement, lead a target and land more than one or 2 shells has you all upset? In a warship game? Really?

I'm sure I'll get raked over the coals for this but I don't care.  This is the most fun I've had in game for years.

In closing NERF UK HE fire chances as it should have never been this way from the beginning. Or make deadeye for AP only.

What you are completely failing to take in to account is wargamings obsession with high caliber bb's. 30mm overmatch is everywhere at t10 so nerfing uk fire chance doesn't fix anything. Sorry buddy, but wargaming screwed up, as always, and refuses to acknowledge it, as always. Why? Because they don't care about you. They don't care about high level play. They only care about metrics.

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1 hour ago, LtMFDann said:



2. It is easily countered by a DD pushing within detect range.
 

It must also be detected to deactivate Death Eye. 

Edited by Pugilistic

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1 hour ago, Geococcyx said:

While I agree with this statement in general and believe that Dead eye has exposed an issue in the game, I think that Dead Eye when combined with other skill changes has created the current meta. A meta we have not seen before.

This meta isn't anything special tbh. The game was very campy before we had the skill rework, but now we're just more cognizant of it because the non-campy build for BBs has been made even worse, and the campy BBs get an actual bonus that they then waste with poor play.

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2 minutes ago, Pugilistic said:

It must also be detected to deactivate Death Eye. 

Just fire.

....followed by....

Just dodge,.

:cap_popcorn:

 

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38 minutes ago, LtMFDann said:


Dead eye only exposes the worse players (those that sit in one position and those that travel in a straight line).  They'll either learn to play right or get farmed. To suggest that deadeye is to blame for the meta is completely false for multiple reasons.. I'll list what I think is the top 3.
 

You are Dead Wrong (pun intended) on this issue.  Before 10.0 a cruiser could play an open water style since a typical engagement might have a properly angled DM or Hindy at 15km taking a couple pens (or 7k damage) every 30 seconds or so.  Not sustainable long-term (relative to a 20 min battle) , but the BB would be taking equal or more damage so he might be looking for cover or help as much as the cruiser would be. 

After 10.0 a decently aimed BB Salvo will land at least double the number of pens, if not more, so now we are talking about 15k which even a full hp cruiser cannot take more than 3 salvos of.  At that point, all the Dead Eye BB's on the board smell blood so our hypothetical cruiser is now in a shooting gallery.  I have rolled up 2 million potential in the first 5 minutes numerous times.  I haven't even brought up the fact that more than half of T10 BBs overmatch all cruisers now.  Basically, open water play style for any cruiser not french or Italian is not so viable anymore.

This leaves the island camping style which can be effective but is much more situational.  It's also leads to playing more conservatively which leads to DDs having more room to work with.  So now battles depend that much more on DD and CV play than ever before since cruiser influence is diminished.

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2 hours ago, LtMFDann said:

I want to play games that take skill and not chance (RNG).

This is downright stupid.  Historically, a 5% hit rate was considered outstanding and probably won your BB an award for best gunnery in the fleet.  The reality is that there wasn't that much actual skill in shooting main guns at any decent range.  If ships wanted to score more hits, they had to close to point blank range.  As it is already (w/o Deadeye, I mean), a do-able 25% hit rate with a BB is vastly better than historical BB gunnery.  Thinking that the game should allow for much higher levels of BB main gun accuracy is nuts.

Note:  I'm not really talking about Deadeye.  I'm talking more about the skill vs chance crap you mention above.  There's already a considerable amount of skill in this game without needing to introduce even more.  If you want to play a game that's all about skill over chance, go play chess.

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4 hours ago, LtMFDann said:

As a closed beta tester I've been playing this game for quite some time now.  I have quit playing multiple times usually because I get so disgusted with the dispersion. I want to play games that take skill and not chance (RNG).

The problem is the HE issues around the UK BB's (combined with deadeye)... Its been that way for years and is never fully called out. 

Dead eye only exposes the worse players (those that sit in one position and those that travel in a straight line).  They'll either learn to play right or get farmed. To suggest that deadeye is to blame for the meta is completely false for multiple reasons.. I'll list what I think is the top 3.

1. UK BB line combined with deadeye has exposed how ridiculous the fire chance of these ships are.  2 salvos at any angle potentially kills a T10 battle ship.  This is directly responsible for the passive play we're seeing now.

2. It is easily countered by a DD pushing within detect range.

3.  WASD is still your best friend learn to use it. Along with the minimap.

I am completely thrilled with how dead eye works.  I wouldn't change a thing. I mean that idea that some one can predict movement, lead a target and land more than one or 2 shells has you all upset? In a warship game? Really?

I'm sure I'll get raked over the coals for this but I don't care.  This is the most fun I've had in game for years.

In closing NERF UK HE fire chances as it should have never been this way from the beginning. Or make deadeye for AP only.

1) Deadeye does reinforce back of the map play but it is not the "be all end all" four point skill for all BB's. I laugh when I see a German BB playing back and did before Deadeye because that is when their turtle deck is pretty much useless.

2 & 3) I agree, it is broken too easily for a four point skill. Now as a lower point skill to be used when advancing but set up so it doesn't reinforce back line play it would be interesting.

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4 hours ago, Geococcyx said:

While I agree with this statement in general and believe that Dead eye has exposed an issue in the game, I think that Dead Eye when combined with other skill changes has created the current meta. A meta we have not seen before. 

This I disagree with. It is not enough for the DD to be in the BBs detection range, it must be spotted for dead eye to stop applying. And if a DD is spotted, it is usually focused and dies. 

I have tried this tactic with my DDs, it is very situational. 

Deadeye is the new boogieman. it gets the blame for everything.

Edited by Laser_Beam

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6 hours ago, LtMFDann said:

As a closed beta tester I've been playing this game for quite some time now.  I have quit playing multiple times usually because I get so disgusted with the dispersion. I want to play games that take skill and not chance (RNG).

The problem is the HE issues around the UK BB's (combined with deadeye)... Its been that way for years and is never fully called out. 

Dead eye only exposes the worse players (those that sit in one position and those that travel in a straight line).  They'll either learn to play right or get farmed. To suggest that deadeye is to blame for the meta is completely false for multiple reasons.. I'll list what I think is the top 3.

I have to agree with most of this. Games, especially PvP games that use as little RNG as possible and reward skill or intelligent play are always more satisfying than slot machines. And BB dispersion makes them seem like slot machines at times. Combine that with citadel overpens, BB gun overmatch and armor in general, then you end up in a game where a broadside at close range either deletes a CL or does nothing (exaggeration, obviously).

Deadeye as a skill is not broken or OP in a vaccuum, it only becomes so in the current meta and with how ships are balanced right now. I think of it more as a catalyst that amplified these issues and made them obvious, rather than the root cause of it. Removing Deadeye or reworking it is a good first step, but working on the underlying balance issues (oversimplified mechanics, too much RNG in balancing damage output, little emphasis on counterplay options) would be better.

But alas, reworking deadeye would be a great first step in my mind.

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6 hours ago, LtMFDann said:

It is easily countered by a DD pushing within detect range.

If the DD is spotted, yes.

I dunno about other DD players, but letting myself be seen at short range, just to remove a BB's dispersion buff, is not something I'm going to do on purpose lol.

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6 hours ago, LtMFDann said:

2. It is easily countered by a DD pushing within detect range.

 

I dont think any DD player would want to be spotted within 12km of a UK BB. 

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19 hours ago, Crucis said:

This is downright stupid.  Historically, a 5% hit rate was considered outstanding and probably won your BB an award for best gunnery in the fleet.  The reality is that there wasn't that much actual skill in shooting main guns at any decent range.  If ships wanted to score more hits, they had to close to point blank range.  As it is already (w/o Deadeye, I mean), a do-able 25% hit rate with a BB is vastly better than historical BB gunnery.  Thinking that the game should allow for much higher levels of BB main gun accuracy is nuts.

Note:  I'm not really talking about Deadeye.  I'm talking more about the skill vs chance crap you mention above.  There's already a considerable amount of skill in this game without needing to introduce even more.  If you want to play a game that's all about skill over chance, go play chess.

You think we're playing a historical simulation?  Yet your fine with single torpedoes not sinking battleships? You're calling my thoughts stupid? Bless your heart.

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22 hours ago, MnemonScarlet said:

This meta isn't anything special tbh. The game was very campy before we had the skill rework, but now we're just more cognizant of it because the non-campy build for BBs has been made even worse, and the campy BBs get an actual bonus that they then waste with poor play.

Absolutely. Passive BB play was here before this latest patch. All too often if A DD was even anywhere in the area BB's would crap their pants and run.  Too scared of torps to even play the game.  Its not even passive BB play at this point its every class playing passively. I'm winning more games now as a brawl Ohio player placing caps in secondary range and supporting my lower class ships.  Laughing at the snipers letting their team get farmed.  Rolling my eyes at the thunderers chiming about 250k damage and no win. 

Also to further my point that dead eye is not an issue.  Its not breaking ranked games or CB.  Its just random games with people who never learned to play and are paying for it.

 

Edited by LtMFDann

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4 hours ago, LtMFDann said:

You think we're playing a historical simulation?  Yet your fine with single torpedoes not sinking battleships? You're calling my thoughts stupid? Bless your heart.

No, I don't.  But at the same time, I don't think that some historical realities should be ignored.  Also, you do see single torps sinking BBs once in a while (when they detonate the enemy BB).

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

No, I don't.  But at the same time, I don't think that some historical realities should be ignored.  Also, you do see single torps sinking BBs once in a while (when they detonate the enemy BB).

Then you get signal flags that prevent it from 100% happening.  I think you just want to argue.

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7 minutes ago, LtMFDann said:

Then you get signal flags that prevent it from 100% happening.  I think you just want to argue.

And you remind me of someone who completely blew his stack because I wouldn't agree with him, just because.  (And proceeded to TK me in the next WoT battle in which we were both in.  And proceeded to quit our WoT clan before he could get thrown out.)

I don't avoid debate just to avoid conflict.  Never have.  Never will.  

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8 minutes ago, Crucis said:

And you remind me of someone who completely blew his stack because I wouldn't agree with him, just because.  (And proceeded to TK me in the next WoT battle in which we were both in.  And proceeded to quit our WoT clan before he could get thrown out.)

I don't avoid debate just to avoid conflict.  Never have.  Never will.  

None of that means you're right.  Oh and none of the dribble you rambled on about in your previous posts makes any logical sense as it pertains to what should or shouldn't be historically accurate.  Also please stop torturing your clan members in TS/Discord with your none stop fact checking battleship knowledge (I've heard your kind before). No one is impressed.

 

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2 minutes ago, LtMFDann said:

None of that means you're right.  Oh and none of the dribble you rambled on about in your previous posts makes any logical sense as it pertains to what should or shouldn't be historically accurate.  Also please stop torturing your clan members in TS/Discord with your none stop fact checking battleship knowledge (I've heard your kind before). No one is impressed.

 

Yawn.  You don't impress me with your foolish ramblings.

 

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

Yawn.  You don't impress me with your foolish ramblings.

 

 At what point did I try to impress you? Narcissism is real.  Seek help my dude. This was never about you.  Toodles :Smile_facepalm:

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