Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
murder_0ne

Quick Review: ANDREA DORIA

33 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

474
[F4E]
Members
339 posts
6,809 battles

The good:

- GREAT looking ship (in my opinion). Art dept. crushed it. Really well proportioned. I like it.

- decent speed, great turning circle, good rudder shift, decent concealment, okay range, good turret traverse, good rate of fire.

The bad:

- What is SAP supposed to accomplish? I get better results with AP in almost every situation than with SAP. Even against DDs etc. SAP is useless.

- AP is... underwhelming.

The UGLY:

- Oh my God this thing is an absolute SHOTGUN. Dispersion is terrible, both vertical and horizontal. To the point that Deadeye doesn't really help anything. Even at ranges inside 10km the dispersion is so bad that half your rounds go in the water in front of the target. At 12-15km shells rain down all around the point of aim and hit everywhere except where you're aiming. Typical salvo results is one, maybe two shells out of 10 and if you're very very lucky you'll actually get a full pen vs. an overpen or shatter/bounce.

- Regularly sees T8 games. This is horrible. The guns underperform at T6. At T8 they just bounce/shatter on basically everything.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,240
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
29,858 posts
25,782 battles

The AP is extremely bad.  Below is my post when I used her in PVE Operation Raptor Rescue and she completely failed to Citadel bot Kongo, Fuso, and a MYOGI at very close ranges.

On 2/24/2021 at 4:11 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Raptor Rescue is now the Op of the Week, tried out Tier VI Andrea Doria.  I have to point out I did this with her default 6 pt captain

*snip*

4.  Her AP is unbelievably weak.  I was <1km from a broadside FUSO and all I got were 7 Pens.  I couldn't tell you how disappointing this was when it happened.  Below is after I made the pass, we were literally perpendicular to each other and I could have thrown rocks to knock out some of their crewmen.

shot-21-02-24-15-54-32-0679.jpg

 

shot-21-02-24-15-55-33-0203.jpg

shot-21-02-24-15-55-38-0846.jpg

 

On 2/24/2021 at 4:45 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

My second A.Doria game, had a better team this time and we got a 5 star run.

*snip*

3.  The AP continued to fail big time.  Here are my subsequent AP salvos at practically point blank ranges and I got no Citadel hits against a Kongo and Myogi.  Failed to Cit a Myogi.  This is unbelievably sad.

  Reveal hidden contents

shot-21-02-24-16-27-32-0303.jpgshot-21-02-24-16-27-39-0428.jpgshot-21-02-24-16-28-05-0873.jpgshot-21-02-24-16-28-16-0513.jpg

SAP Citadeling Cruisers this Op is possible.

shot-21-02-24-16-30-52-0825.jpg

 

For Operation Raptor Rescue, IMO, Andrea Doria should never use her AP shells.

The above wouldn't be so bad if it was just a 1 time event and I still got better results against the other squishy IJN BBs.  But that's not what happened.  It completely failed in back to back games against IJN BBs in super close ranges.

 

Here's the Artillery Chart for A.Doria (320mm), New Mexico (356mm), Fuso (356mm), Bayern (380mm), Normandie (340mm).

shot-21-02-09-18-16-09-0672.jpg

A.Doria has the smallest guns of this selection, weak AP Pen.  Bad mention for Bayern with terrible AP shells despite being 380mm, the biggest guns of this group.

 

Something I'm increasingly bothered with these new ITA Battleships is they all uniformly have 1.6 Sigma.  Usually WG likes to give 1.5, 1.6 Sigma for Battleships with lots of guns.  Pommern, Lepanto, Fuso, New Mexico and 16-gun Lyon are examples of this happening.

But Andrea Doria only has 10 guns and she's being punished with 1.6 Sigma.  Tier VIII Vittorio Veneto has 1.6 Sigma and she only has 9 guns.

 

  • Cool 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50
[DW-62]
Beta Testers
222 posts
1,728 battles
19 minutes ago, murder_0ne said:

The good:

- GREAT looking ship (in my opinion). Art dept. crushed it. Really well proportioned. I like it.

- decent speed, great turning circle, good rudder shift, decent concealment, okay range, good turret traverse, good rate of fire.

The bad:

- What is SAP supposed to accomplish? I get better results with AP in almost every situation than with SAP. Even against DDs etc. SAP is useless.

- AP is... underwhelming.

The UGLY:

- Oh my God this thing is an absolute SHOTGUN. Dispersion is terrible, both vertical and horizontal. To the point that Deadeye doesn't really help anything. Even at ranges inside 10km the dispersion is so bad that half your rounds go in the water in front of the target. At 12-15km shells rain down all around the point of aim and hit everywhere except where you're aiming. Typical salvo results is one, maybe two shells out of 10 and if you're very very lucky you'll actually get a full pen vs. an overpen or shatter/bounce.

- Regularly sees T8 games. This is horrible. The guns underperform at T6. At T8 they just bounce/shatter on basically everything.

You really don't want to use SAP against DDs. Because of DD paper thin armor, SAP behaves like AP shells against DDs when overpen without AP Alpha to help with the sad damage. 

Also chunking pretty consistent 10k per salvo against angled targets seems pretty good to me...if you had cruiser dispersion too then this line would be OP....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,240
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
29,858 posts
25,782 battles
14 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

She was quite the nice ship for her time.

SS_Andrea_Doria.jpg

:Smile_hiding:

Normandie can have company!

shot-21-03-03-20-53-37-0149.jpg

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
583
[NMKJT]
Members
3,058 posts
8,291 battles
56 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

A.Doria has the smallest guns of this selection, weak AP Pen.  Bad mention for Bayern with terrible AP shells despite being 380mm, the biggest guns of this group.

As you can see, there's always worse. There's always Bayern. :^)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
959
[TIGRB]
Members
939 posts
17,292 battles

In my opinion, Their experience with the Giulio Cesare made them gun shy.  They were so worried about Doria being OP at tier 6 I think they over did it with her guns. Against tier 5,6 and 7 these 12.6 inch AP capped shells should citadel pretty good unless faced with turtle back. On a Historical level though, Wargaming got it correct. The Quality control at Italian factories who made the shells and powder was less than Steller which resulted with very poor dispersion in battle

During a surface battle at 26,000 yards Cesare found the range on HMS Waspite quickly but no hits were scored. Shells splashed all around the British BB but thats it. In other battles the same thing happened. It seems Littorio was the only Italian BB to land a few solid hits and she also did a lot of splinter damage to British DD's.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
392
[D33P6]
Members
568 posts

I played a few matches in the Andrea Doria.  In comparison it's almost identical the Giulio Cesare but with some differences.

The biggest thing I noticed was the dispersion.  It has slightly worse dispersion than the Giulio Cesare but while playing the Andrea Doria its dispersion seems A LOT worse.  The shots spread out horizontally like crazy.  I've had plenty of good lined up shots against broadside targets only to watch the rounds hit water all around the enemy ship.  I wonder if its dispersion is far worse than what is posted in game.

As far as SAP it seems to do well against other ships, notably cruisers, but after the first match I started firing strictly AP.

I like everything else about the ship but its dispersion is very infuriating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
392
[D33P6]
Members
568 posts
32 minutes ago, MnemonScarlet said:

As you can see, there's always worse. There's always Bayern. :^)

I actually enjoyed the Bayern.  I don't remember it being that terrible. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
583
[NMKJT]
Members
3,058 posts
8,291 battles
3 minutes ago, HeadSplit120 said:

I actually enjoyed the Bayern.  I don't remember it being that terrible. 

Bayern as a ship is pretty good. The only thing that's wrong with her is her WW1 AP.

But that AP is really, really bad. I got so tired of it when I ground it years ago that she became the only BB I ever rage sold and skipped through, and I ground out the dog that is Bretagne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,240
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
29,858 posts
25,782 battles
37 minutes ago, HeadSplit120 said:

I played a few matches in the Andrea Doria.  In comparison it's almost identical the Giulio Cesare but with some differences.

The biggest thing I noticed was the dispersion.  It has slightly worse dispersion than the Giulio Cesare but while playing the Andrea Doria its dispersion seems A LOT worse.  The shots spread out horizontally like crazy.  I've had plenty of good lined up shots against broadside targets only to watch the rounds hit water all around the enemy ship.  I wonder if its dispersion is far worse than what is posted in game.

As far as SAP it seems to do well against other ships, notably cruisers, but after the first match I started firing strictly AP.

I like everything else about the ship but its dispersion is very infuriating.

There's a reason for that wild accuracy.

People have gone around saying that Tier V G.Cesare is supposedly, statistically very close to Tier VI A.Doria.  But there's one thing that throws all that out to the sh*tters and why Cesare is just so superior.

Cesare has 1.9 Sigma, all the new, tech tree ITA Battleships have 1.6 Sigma.  They can be a 12 gun BB like Lepanto, a 10 gun BB like A.Doria, or a 9 gun BB like Vittorio Veneto.  They ALL have 1.6 Sigma.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
392
[D33P6]
Members
568 posts
1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

There's a reason for that wild accuracy.

People have gone around saying that Tier V G.Cesare is supposedly, statistically very close to Tier VI A.Doria.  But there's one thing that throws all that out to the sh*tters and why Cesare is just so superior.

Cesare has 1.9 Sigma, all the new, tech tree ITA Battleships have 1.6 Sigma.  They can be a 12 gun BB like Lepanto, a 10 gun BB like A.Doria, or a 9 gun BB like Vittorio Veneto.  They ALL have 1.6 Sigma.

That explains a lot, thanks.  I completely forgot about the Sigma.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
754
[TFK]
[TFK]
Alpha Tester
1,729 posts
21,163 battles
6 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

She was quite the nice ship for her time.

SS_Andrea_Doria.jpg

We all know that one was citadel by an Ice breaker bow in a ram. :Smile_Default: . However in WoWS game mechanics IMO all Italian BBs need to be dropped one tier. There is no way the Italian BBs are balanced versus the tier MM game mechanics. If not top tier the Italian BBs will be attrition to death. Both their guns and armor are weak in not giving a game opportunity to do things. Unless WG is making a statement by making these Italian BB ships with poor game performances. 

The Andria Doria was part of the Caio Duilio class. The Giulio Cesare (GC) was part of the Conte di Cavour class battleships. Andria Doria has the same type of guns as the GC. Also add the difference between the two ship infrastructures based on the 1930's reconstruction projects. Despite those notes, the two ships should have the same gun types available. 

Now Wargaming will not allow another Giulio Cesare ship in world of warships today. There is a reason why you will not see the GC sold in the premium shop. There is talk of saying that Giulio Cesare should be tier 6, however Wargaming will not change the GC configuration. That is a whole different can of worms for discussion.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
935
[REVY]
Members
2,634 posts
14,446 battles
7 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The AP is extremely bad.  Below is my post when I used her in PVE Operation Raptor Rescue and she completely failed to Citadel bot Kongo, Fuso, and a MYOGI at very close ranges.

I've had fun with her in Op Raptor.

Yes her dispersion is crap, but I have successfully citadeled the first Myogi, as well as the later Fuso and Myogis. I have even scored citadels with SAP on the cruisers, and even one on the Fuso (dont ask me how, but it registered).

She works well within a certain range, just what that is I'm zero-ing in on. But I am having fun with it in Raptor Ops at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
236
[FFG33]
[FFG33]
Members
397 posts
15,156 battles
8 hours ago, murder_0ne said:

- Regularly sees T8 games. This is horrible. The guns underperform at T6. At T8 they just bounce/shatter on basically everything.

That is why they wanted to do to GC. Glad we dodged that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15,303
[ARGSY]
Members
23,385 posts
17,319 battles
8 hours ago, murder_0ne said:

The guns underperform at T6. At T8 they just bounce/shatter on basically everything.

That has not been my experience. I've gotten in some pretty heavy hits. I'll give you this, though; the SAP seems inconsistent. One minute I'm delivering salvoes into broadside DDs that should have them taking harp lessons; the next, I'm chunking the Roma I'm brawling with for over 10K. 

That speed, though - she's still one of the fastest BBs at her tier, and her gun layout's a whole lot friendlier than that of the Izmail or Normandie. (Those guns, by the way - even to 12.6 inch, Izmails sailing broadside are still showing their glass jaw.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
754
[-TRM-]
[-TRM-]
Members
2,524 posts

The ship's gunnery is so bad you get sunk picking at a opponet. Its not worth the trouble. Typical italian pile. Over done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,351
[SPTR]
Members
27,312 posts
17,556 battles

I find her to be a hidden gem in Ops or at least in Raptor and Aegis which are frequently plague with bot japanese cruisers which is something that can easily get burst by SAP like you can wipe of 10-17k of their health per salvo. 

The only reason I would switch to AP is for broadside enemy BBs which happens on a uncommon basis in Ops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,383
[WOLFG]
Members
32,288 posts
10,008 battles

I'll have to play it some more, but I didn't find it that bad. 

First game was an 85k loss, the shells felt underwhelming, but the pens added up. Looking at the battle results, the SAP was working better than the AP against a Lyon, but the AP worked better against a Fuso. Most of those shots were at 13-17km.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
754
[-TRM-]
[-TRM-]
Members
2,524 posts
9 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Normandie can have company!

shot-21-03-03-20-53-37-0149.jpg

Leviathan, later USS Vaterland as a troop ship for WW1. During one Atlantic winter storm crossing she lost her eagle which was about a ten foot bow decoration as she took waves on the bridge.

A part of her I think still rests after scrapping in Scotland to this day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15,303
[ARGSY]
Members
23,385 posts
17,319 battles
2 hours ago, Rolkatsuki said:

The only reason I would switch to AP is for broadside enemy BBs which happens on a uncommon basis in Ops.

Yeah, the Spider Sense that bots have when you switch to AP is disturbing.

It's one of the reasons I like Sansonetti in the Italian cruisers. The shell switching is super-enhanced, so the bot doesn't have time to angle away before the AP is loaded and you can muck his ship up. The timing might have to be more careful in BBs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
474
[F4E]
Members
339 posts
6,809 battles
4 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

That has not been my experience. I've gotten in some pretty heavy hits. I'll give you this, though; the SAP seems inconsistent. One minute I'm delivering salvoes into broadside DDs that should have them taking harp lessons; the next, I'm chunking the Roma I'm brawling with for over 10K. 

That speed, though - she's still one of the fastest BBs at her tier, and her gun layout's a whole lot friendlier than that of the Izmail or Normandie. (Those guns, by the way - even to 12.6 inch, Izmails sailing broadside are still showing their glass jaw.)

Indeed, I really like the gun layout, turret angles aren't terrible and the turret traverse is quite decent. The speed/turning circle/rudder shift is quite good as well. It's just the guns that are terrible. Which is the entire point of playing a BB: effective guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
474
[F4E]
Members
339 posts
6,809 battles
12 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The AP is extremely bad.  Below is my post when I used her in PVE Operation Raptor Rescue and she completely failed to Citadel bot Kongo, Fuso, and a MYOGI at very close ranges.

 

 

The above wouldn't be so bad if it was just a 1 time event and I still got better results against the other squishy IJN BBs.  But that's not what happened.  It completely failed in back to back games against IJN BBs in super close ranges.

 

Here's the Artillery Chart for A.Doria (320mm), New Mexico (356mm), Fuso (356mm), Bayern (380mm), Normandie (340mm).

shot-21-02-09-18-16-09-0672.jpg

A.Doria has the smallest guns of this selection, weak AP Pen.  Bad mention for Bayern with terrible AP shells despite being 380mm, the biggest guns of this group.

 

Something I'm increasingly bothered with these new ITA Battleships is they all uniformly have 1.6 Sigma.  Usually WG likes to give 1.5, 1.6 Sigma for Battleships with lots of guns.  Pommern, Lepanto, Fuso, New Mexico and 16-gun Lyon are examples of this happening.

But Andrea Doria only has 10 guns and she's being punished with 1.6 Sigma.  Tier VIII Vittorio Veneto has 1.6 Sigma and she only has 9 guns.

 

Aha! I knew it was bad just by "feel" and I hadn't looked at it in wowsft just yet but that totally confirms what I've been experiencing in game with the AP performance. Yuck. Really too bad too because other than the gun performance the ship is really quite nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,393
[SOLOH]
[SOLOH]
Beta Testers
4,293 posts

The ANDREA DORIA development team

 

Head developer: Ok people we need a tier 6 battleship for the Italian battleship line.

Developer Ted: I got an idea

HD: Go on Ted 

Ted: We take the Guilio Cesare and remove everything good about it.

HD: Ok ok go on

Ted: then we kick it up a tier

HD: Ted....You goddamn genius that is brilliant here are the keys to my car go to my house and bang my wife

 

or so I think 

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15,303
[ARGSY]
Members
23,385 posts
17,319 battles
1 hour ago, murder_0ne said:

It's just the guns that are terrible.

We'll agree to disagree, but the SAP which is meant to be the signature of these ships being so inconsistent is very disappointing.

Oddly enough, the accuracy feels better firing AP. I accept that this may be a subjective thing in my hands.

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×