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LaughingLupine

So if you torp a friendly at 9K is it really your fault?

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At what point do people need to take responsibility for their own actions. Pay attention to the map people.

 

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If a team-mate runs into Black or Sims torps...  THEY should get the TK penalty.

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7 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

If a team-mate runs into Black or Sims torps...  THEY should get the TK penalty.

Black yesterday, Yugamo today at 11 k, Our bb behind an island hitting their broadsides, I torp into a group of 4 enemy ships. Force 2 cruisers to turn broadside to the BB, and he pulls out and takes the torp at 11 k. 

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11 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

If a team-mate runs into Black or Sims torps...  THEY should get the TK penalty.

It doesn't matter if it is a fast torp or a moving mine field. Even if they know the torps are there they are constricting their movement and forcing them to watch the torps and to watch the enemy and mistakes in maneuvering will happen.

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I've been torpedoed and I've been pink, Friendly fires happens.  Sometimes things get FUBAR  But when you have DD's laying back firing 16km torps and you're capping  They are wrong for firing behind you ,This includes Cruisers as well !

Edited by jr_token

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1 hour ago, LaughingLupine said:

At what point do people need to take responsibility for their own actions. Pay attention to the map people.

 

Your torps, your Responsibility to make sure they do not hit your friendlies...

 You been around to know that is the sentiment regarding sending torps when friendlies are in front.

If this was in Co-op.. You can;t get mad... He is probably practicing... Its still the fault of whoever pulled the trigger.

If its in Random, Rank or any other game mod that is not Co-op... No excuse, hit a friendly with torps its your fault...

The automatic system is in place to prevent escalation... Warn those who need to be warned..

So be responsible with torps...

 

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At tier 2 and tier 3 most of us learnt  - Only drop Torps from the front.  If someone can jump in they way... they will.  

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Remember kids, once the fish leave the tubes they are no ones friend.

Your fish , you fired them. You own them. 

 

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OP, let's see if I can explain this clearly, once and for all ...

Do you ride motorcycle? Have you heard of the term 'defensive driving'? As a motorcyclist you are a more vulnerable participant in traffic than someone in a car. Someone in a car is looking out for other cars. Not for motorcycles. So sometimes even when the motorcyclist is doing everything right their presence just doesn't register, and a car driver can pull out in front of the motorcyclist, causing an accident. Car driver's 'fault'? Well, he caused the accident. But was he at fault? No. It's just human psychology. And could've easily been prevented if the motorcyclist anticipated what the car driver might do, given more space, had his escape route ready and planned out. The motorcyclist kept responsibility over his own safety in his own hands, by creating a safety cushion around himself in case the car driver did something unexpected. This is what's meant by defensive driving.

Now, let me zoom in on the matter of responsibility here. If the motorcyclist hadn't created space in case the car driver did <insert thing here>, the motorcyclist would've handed off the responsibility for his own safety to the hands of the car driver, by giving up the space he would need to swerve out of the way in case the car driver did X. By creating that space, the motorcyclist kept the responsibility for his own safety in his own hands, by giving himself a safe way out in case the car driver did something stupid. Something the motorcyslist can not predict with any certainty. And by keeping his responsibility for his own safety in his own hands, he prevented a stay in the hospital. "But the motorcyclist had the right of way! The car cut him off!" - yeah, tell that to the doctor who has to put your spine back together. 'Fault' doesn't really matter when dealing with a 400 pound vehicle with exposed driver vs a 2000 pound steel cage, does it. No matter who's at fault, the motorcyclist is gonna lose. And I'd much, much rather be 10 seconds slower on my journey and give up my space at a crossing than spend 6 months in a hospital. I'm damn well going to give that car space because I don't know 100% certain that he's seen me and is giving me space.

Similar thing - though at much lower stakes - applies here. You don't know what a teammate is going to do. He might turn right, he might turn left, he might stop and reverse - so give him the space to do so. Why would you hand over responsibility for not getting hit by your torpedoes to someone else who might need to turn a certain way to avoid beaching, to avoid giving broadside, to avoid overextending or who might just be stupid? Why would you hand over responsibility to not get hit by your torpedoes to someone who might already have his hands full controlling his ship and shooting at the enemies? God knows far too many teammates are already struggling to remember what those funny circles on the map are for and what ammo to use against what targets to also need to worry about your triggerhappy fingers and torpedoes from behind.

Like the motorcyclist using defensive driving, try some defensive trigger discipline. Don't launch ordnance when - for whatever reason - a teammate might turn in to them. It's one of the basic rules of gun safety, be aware of your target and what's behind it.

And if not? Well, just keep on doing what you're doing and the problem will solve itself eventually when the auto ban kicks in after repeated teamkills.

No we don't care who's fault it is. But it's the responsibility of the person who fired the ordnance. Yes I'm aware of the torpedoes you launched from behind me. But I'm driving my ship here, and if the choice is between beaching in front of half the enemy team or giving them broadside, or turning in the way of your torpedoes? Well, you're going pink. Other teammates might already have their hands full with the basics of the game and not be aware of your torpedoes to begin with.

Edited by Lert
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8 hours ago, LaughingLupine said:

At what point do people need to take responsibility for their own actions. Pay attention to the map people.

 

Take responsibility for their actions!? Why don't you start with yourself and your actions

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1 hour ago, MasterDiggs said:

Take responsibility for their actions!? Why don't you start with yourself and your actions

Let's say, for the sake of situation, that this is just a computer game without anyone actually being injured..  Just pretend for a moment.

Also pretend that this game is set up as you are a Destroyer, you can only see some percentage past your gun range.
Since that gun range is also your detection range, you want to cut that down as much as possible.
You can only see friendlies and enemies in this 'visibility' range.

So when you are lining up your torps to fire at an enemy BB..  YOU SEE NO FRIENDLIES THERE.
Torps are away...  But they move so slow (Black and Sims), that time has to pass before they get to that intercept.

By the time your torps finally get into the area, a friendly DD has appeared out of the ether and is now suicide torping your target.
You didn't know it was there because WG WOULDN'T TELL YOU.

This system is set up to create this sort of unwanted drama.

------------------   MORE DRAMA ---------------

Your cruiser is 3km from a medium health enemy BB.  You are dead if you can't get this spread off (still might be dead).  In fact, you are so close, the target fan is right off the nose of your target.  You fire....

Right after you fire, a friendly BB does the service of deleting this BB for you.  
But your torps will still hit it...  right???    Ummm...   NOPE !!!   Oh Crap !!!

Wargaming has all eliminated targets do an IMMEDIATE STOP.  There is no inertia in this game.

So now, you need to think about what lies beyond that spread of torps.  Usually, there is nothing, but sometimes......  Oh well...  Pinkerino time.

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8 hours ago, Lert said:

OP, let's see if I can explain this clearly, once and for all ...

Do you ride motorcycle? Have you heard of the term 'defensive driving'? As a motorcyclist you are a more vulnerable participant in traffic than someone in a car. Someone in a car is looking out for other cars. Not for motorcycles. So sometimes even when the motorcyclist is doing everything right their presence just doesn't register, and a car driver can pull out in front of the motorcyclist, causing an accident. Car driver's 'fault'? Well, he caused the accident. But was he at fault? No. It's just human psychology. And could've easily been prevented if the motorcyclist anticipated what the car driver might do, given more space, had his escape route ready and planned out. The motorcyclist kept responsibility over his own safety in his own hands, by creating a safety cushion around himself in case the car driver did something unexpected. This is what's meant by defensive driving.

Now, let me zoom in on the matter of responsibility here. If the motorcyclist hadn't created space in case the car driver did <insert thing here>, the motorcyclist would've handed off the responsibility for his own safety to the hands of the car driver, by giving up the space he would need to swerve out of the way in case the car driver did X. By creating that space, the motorcyclist kept the responsibility for his own safety in his own hands, by giving himself a safe way out in case the car driver did something stupid. Something the motorcyslist can not predict with any certainty. And by keeping his responsibility for his own safety in his own hands, he prevented a stay in the hospital. "But the motorcyclist had the right of way! The car cut him off!" - yeah, tell that to the doctor who has to put your spine back together. 'Fault' doesn't really matter when dealing with a 400 pound vehicle with exposed driver vs a 2000 pound steel cage, does it. No matter who's at fault, the motorcyclist is gonna lose. And I'd much, much rather be 10 seconds slower on my journey and give up my space at a crossing than spend 6 months in a hospital. I'm damn well going to give that car space because I don't know 100% certain that he's seen me and is giving me space.

Similar thing - though at much lower stakes - applies here. You don't know what a teammate is going to do. He might turn right, he might turn left, he might stop and reverse - so give him the space to do so. Why would you hand over responsibility for not getting hit by your torpedoes to someone else who might need to turn a certain way to avoid beaching, to avoid giving broadside, to avoid overextending or who might just be stupid? Why would you hand over responsibility to not get hit by your torpedoes to someone who might already have his hands full controlling his ship and shooting at the enemies? God knows far too many teammates are already struggling to remember what those funny circles on the map are for and what ammo to use against what targets to also need to worry about your triggerhappy fingers and torpedoes from behind.

Like the motorcyclist using defensive driving, try some defensive trigger discipline. Don't launch ordnance when - for whatever reason - a teammate might turn in to them. It's one of the basic rules of gun safety, be aware of your target and what's behind it.

And if not? Well, just keep on doing what you're doing and the problem will solve itself eventually when the auto ban kicks in after repeated teamkills.

No we don't care who's fault it is. But it's the responsibility of the person who fired the ordnance. Yes I'm aware of the torpedoes you launched from behind me. But I'm driving my ship here, and if the choice is between beaching in front of half the enemy team or giving them broadside, or turning in the way of your torpedoes? Well, you're going pink. Other teammates might already have their hands full with the basics of the game and not be aware of your torpedoes to begin with.

I think I'd reverse the position of the motorcycle and car in this situation. The one launching torps is the car. You have a responsibility to treat motorcycles just the same as other vehicles, even if it's harder to see them. The motorcyclist out of their own personal safety Should be practicing defensive driving, just like the allied ship Should be on the lookout for friendly torpedoes.

Car's not 'seeing' the motorcycle isn't a legal excuse for crushing them and at the end of the day the law will still rule against the car should it break right-of way. WG will turn you pink if you friendly fire torps, regardless of how far away you launched.

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1 minute ago, Qyygle said:

Car's not 'seeing' the motorcycle isn't a legal excuse for crushing them and at the end of the day the law will still rule against the car should it break right-of way.

Correct. However, when I'm in the hospital with a cracked pelvis and a broken spine, I'm less occupied with what 'should' be, with who's 'at fault', than I am with what I could've done to give the car some space. After all, I don't know for sure what he's going to do, whether he has seen me, is distracted by other things or not. Why hand off responsibility? I'm responsible for my own actions, including the choice whether or not to put me in a position where someone else being stupid can cause harm to me. I do my best not to leave my safety to other people.

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13 hours ago, LaughingLupine said:

Black yesterday, Yugamo today at 11 k, Our bb behind an island hitting their broadsides, I torp into a group of 4 enemy ships. Force 2 cruisers to turn broadside to the BB, and he pulls out and takes the torp at 11 k. 

So, you are a DD, firing "around" a BB that's 11k away....

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Ran a stop sign and T-boned someone. It's their fault for not noticing my speeding car from miles away.

22 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

You can only see friendlies and enemies in this 'visibility' range.

No. You can see all your friendlies on the mini map no matter the distance. 

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On 3/4/2021 at 10:18 AM, arch4random said:

nope not your fault that somebody sailed into your torp lane ...in my opinion

Normally I think you responsible for anything you hit, but there are exceptions. One that comes to mind is a Le Terrible turning around, hitting speed boost and becoming so fixated on the enemy he ran into Italian torps I’d launched over a minute earlier. When the ship is faster than the torps, some responsibility has to be taken for sailing right into them.

Edited by pallas_2

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On 3/4/2021 at 9:03 AM, chewonit said:

Ran a stop sign and T-boned someone. It's their fault for not noticing my speeding car from miles away.

No. You can see all your friendlies on the mini map no matter the distance. 

The scale on the mini-map will sometimes show a ship behind you that is actually in front of or beside you.  You have to swivel you field of view in order to see, and sometimes that isn't an option in a tight situation.  Still, the responsibility is the shooters to try and avoid friendly fire... been pink plenty of times in many of the scenarios listed in the previous responses.  Take your lumps, its not like it actually means anything.

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I've dumped torps and figured they were well clear of teammates (and even issued warnings to the nearest friendlies) and still wound up pink. And I've always apologized when that happens, because it was my misjudgement/assumption that resulted in the poor sap blundering into the position to eat one of my torps. My torp, my fault. That's the end of it.

--Helms

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Sometimes it is in fact the fault of the person that got hit.  I have seen DDs rush in between ships that launched torps when they had no need to (they were safe behind island) just to try and get the kill themselves.  If a ship is in a brawl with a red they will launch torps as much to stay alive as to get the kill, if you get hit by those it is your fault.

Always give the ship in contact with the enemy the right of way.

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