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Thor_1138

Battleship vs Destroyer

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First a question and then my rant. Does anyone know the DPM comparison between a T8 BB main guns and a T8 gunboat DD (ex. Benson)? 

It seems like the actual damage caused by the destroyer far exceeds that of the battleship, especially when firing HE. It seems like even if the BB manages to hit the DD, rather difficult, it doesn't deal anything like catastrophic damage. Since dispersion makes it impossible to land more than a couple shells on it, the DD seems to basically shrug off the damage. It is extremely frustrating to have to actually turn tail and RUN because a destroyer is shooting at my battleship. This actually happens, even when the DD is out in the open and visible. If it is one on one and the DD player is halfway decent, the destroyer burns the battleship up before the BB can fire enough shells to kill the DD. Is it just me or does it seem unrealistic that a destroyer can take several 16 inch HE shells and still be fighting (if anyone knows of a historical example of that actually happening feel free to correct my perceptions). As for game mechanics and balancing, a DD can survive at least 2 direct hits from a BB main gun (assuming max damage) which is rather difficult in general and basically impossible for a single volley. Also, there seems to be no way to get full damage from a hit as DDs have no citadel and so are immune (unfairly) to critical hits. I know the theory is that the battleship secondary batteries are supposed to fend off DDs but unless you have a high level captain with the right skill, the dispersion is so bad you rarely score hits on a maneuvering destroyer. Also, as another recent post pointed out, whet hits you do land do depressingly little damage. In summary, a battleship should have to avoid destroyers because of the torpedo threat not because of their guns!

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10 minutes ago, Thor_1138 said:

First a question and then my rant. Does anyone know the DPM comparison between a T8 BB main guns and a T8 gunboat DD (ex. Benson)? 

It seems like the actual damage caused by the destroyer far exceeds that of the battleship, especially when firing HE. It seems like even if the BB manages to hit the DD, rather difficult, it doesn't deal anything like catastrophic damage. Since dispersion makes it impossible to land more than a couple shells on it, the DD seems to basically shrug off the damage. It is extremely frustrating to have to actually turn tail and RUN because a destroyer is shooting at my battleship. This actually happens, even when the DD is out in the open and visible. If it is one on one and the DD player is halfway decent, the destroyer burns the battleship up before the BB can fire enough shells to kill the DD. Is it just me or does it seem unrealistic that a destroyer can take several 16 inch HE shells and still be fighting (if anyone knows of a historical example of that actually happening feel free to correct my perceptions). As for game mechanics and balancing, a DD can survive at least 2 direct hits from a BB main gun (assuming max damage) which is rather difficult in general and basically impossible for a single volley. Also, there seems to be no way to get full damage from a hit as DDs have no citadel and so are immune (unfairly) to critical hits. I know the theory is that the battleship secondary batteries are supposed to fend off DDs but unless you have a high level captain with the right skill, the dispersion is so bad you rarely score hits on a maneuvering destroyer. Also, as another recent post pointed out, whet hits you do land do depressingly little damage. In summary, a battleship should have to avoid destroyers because of the torpedo threat not because of their guns!

all fire damage is equal... regardless of the ship that hit you...

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There is a huge difference between theoretical and actual dpm first. Second, if this were a purely historical game no one would play destroyer, it would be called world of aircraft carriers. 

Edited by ditka_Fatdog
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9 minutes ago, ditka_Fatdog said:

There is a huge difference between theoretical and actual dpm first. Second, if this were a purely historical game no one would play destroyer, it would be called world of aircraft carriers. 

...and with rare exceptions the CV's would be well back from the battle.

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58 minutes ago, Thor_1138 said:

First a question and then my rant. Does anyone know the DPM comparison between a T8 BB main guns and a T8 gunboat DD (ex. Benson)? 

It seems like the actual damage caused by the destroyer far exceeds that of the battleship, especially when firing HE. It seems like even if the BB manages to hit the DD, rather difficult, it doesn't deal anything like catastrophic damage. Since dispersion makes it impossible to land more than a couple shells on it, the DD seems to basically shrug off the damage. It is extremely frustrating to have to actually turn tail and RUN because a destroyer is shooting at my battleship. This actually happens, even when the DD is out in the open and visible. If it is one on one and the DD player is halfway decent, the destroyer burns the battleship up before the BB can fire enough shells to kill the DD. Is it just me or does it seem unrealistic that a destroyer can take several 16 inch HE shells and still be fighting (if anyone knows of a historical example of that actually happening feel free to correct my perceptions). As for game mechanics and balancing, a DD can survive at least 2 direct hits from a BB main gun (assuming max damage) which is rather difficult in general and basically impossible for a single volley. Also, there seems to be no way to get full damage from a hit as DDs have no citadel and so are immune (unfairly) to critical hits. I know the theory is that the battleship secondary batteries are supposed to fend off DDs but unless you have a high level captain with the right skill, the dispersion is so bad you rarely score hits on a maneuvering destroyer. Also, as another recent post pointed out, whet hits you do land do depressingly little damage. In summary, a battleship should have to avoid destroyers because of the torpedo threat not because of their guns!

Yes, 4 he shells kills benson...

 

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9 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Yes, 4 he shells kills benson...

I stopped worrying so much about torpies, and started learning to hit and kill them, when I got tired of getting sunk by them in South Carolina.

Main thing is map awareness, and paying attention to where destroyers are, or might be.

Run if necessary, yes, but if one comes after you, be focused on how you need to hit and kill them, especially if you can see them.

Smart destroyer drivers can tell if a battleship driver is losing it; they tend to get a bit more nervous when they realize the main battery guns are constantly pointed their way, and that the battleship might actually be hunting them.

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25 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

I stopped worrying so much about torpies, and started learning to hit and kill them, when I got tired of getting sunk by them in South Carolina.

Main thing is map awareness, and paying attention to where destroyers are, or might be.

Run if necessary, yes, but if one comes after you, be focused on how you need to hit and kill them, especially if you can see them.

Smart destroyer drivers can tell if a battleship driver is losing it; they tend to get a bit more nervous when they realize the main battery guns are constantly pointed their way, and that the battleship might actually be hunting them.

  Pretty much.   That's the choice, when you learn to BB- either learn how to fight back effectively, or enjoy eating someone's torpedoes.   I chose to SHOOT the little jerks, lol.    AND to avoid the usual DD hotspots.   And to get better at dodging torpedoes.

 Finally, I got irritated enough with the stinkers that I began hunting THEM.   After all, that 12,500 damage from wiping out that DD pays pretty well!   Just like dev striking a cruiser, or smashing that enemy BB- it just doesn't look as impressive on the results screen.

  HE works well- if I remember to switch, and if they're still visible when my guns reload.   If it's AP loaded, that's what's getting shot- either way, if a DD is spotted within reasonable chance of hitting him range, I AM shooting at him.   Heck, I'll run them over if I have to!!   (my NY has quite a track record of doing this!)

  As a DD player, I really hate it when the BB's come after me.   Those ginormous shells really trash my modules!!

 

 

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1 hour ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Yes, 4 he shells kills benson...

 

If you don't detonate them first.

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1 hour ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

 Heck, I'll run them over if I have to!!   (my NY has quite a track record of doing this!)

My first Die Hard was in the Slot on Solomons. My St Louis squished an Umikaze against the island on the north side of the slot, during a scrum. :fish_viking:

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15 hours ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

HE works well- if I remember to switch, and if they're still visible when my guns reload.   If it's AP loaded, that's what's getting shot- either way, if a DD is spotted within reasonable chance of hitting him range, I AM shooting at him.   Heck, I'll run them over if I have to!!   (my NY has quite a track record of doing this!)

  As a DD player, I really hate it when the BB's come after me.   Those ginormous shells really trash my modules!!

BB AP is actually rather effective against DDs, though not in the way you'd think. He can do massive damage and break modules, but against a saturated structure etc. its damage potential is more limited. BB AP however, will always overpen (it overmatches everything on a DD anyway, with a few exceptions) and give you 10% damage. Doesn't sound like a lot, but when you compare DD health to BB AP alpha you'll see it is more than enough.

So, don't be afraid to just sling AP at DDs, especially the low HP ones. HE is technically the superior ammo choice, but AP gets the job done as well. As a DD driver I can tell you, the moment you actively engage and maneuver against a DD instead of running away or ignoring it, you will become a very unattractive target to farm.

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9 hours ago, shinytrashcan said:

BB AP is actually rather effective against DDs, though not in the way you'd think. He can do massive damage and break modules, but against a saturated structure etc. its damage potential is more limited. BB AP however, will always overpen (it overmatches everything on a DD anyway, with a few exceptions) and give you 10% damage. Doesn't sound like a lot, but when you compare DD health to BB AP alpha you'll see it is more than enough.

So, don't be afraid to just sling AP at DDs, especially the low HP ones. HE is technically the superior ammo choice, but AP gets the job done as well. As a DD driver I can tell you, the moment you actively engage and maneuver against a DD instead of running away or ignoring it, you will become a very unattractive target to farm.

  When I turn away and "run" from a DD, it's a trap.   If he chases me, the chances of him landing a big torp salvo on me plummet- and I can SEE him turn out to launch.   Which, of course, I've been waiting for- to get a better shot at effing up his torp launchers, engine and/or rudder, lol.

  I'm also doing it to avoid giving him the chance of simply  charging me and dropping point blank torps I have 0 chance of avoiding, if he can aim at all.

  Ignoring one?  Not an option.   I learned that lesson way back in tier 3 lol.  THIS BB player got tired of being blown to kingdom come by torpedoes rather early in his career.   (which also led to my love of playing cruisers)

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