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entreri89

DD player returning and radar

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I have returned to the game after a couple years of not playing. My favorite ships were destroyers. Radar is actually the dumbest thing I have ever seen. It basically makes playing DD no fun and unplayable. I cant even get into torpedo range at all. You know that radars cant actually see through islands right? Smoke is completely useless. I thought destroyers were supposed to be like stealthy scouts.You cant even do that anymore. I basically have to sit in the back half the game and wait for everyone to use all there radars.   Ive never posted before but radar pisses me off enough to post. I used to have a lot of fun playing destroyer but it looks like i have to switch to something else or just stop playing again. The whole play style and reason I liked playing destroyers is completely gone and ruined.  That crapis stupid.

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Welcome back I guess. Sell your DD's past tier 6 and play cruisers and BBs is my recommendation.

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You need to adjust your play style to the situation.   Constantly doing the same thing every match would be boring.  Carriers and radar make playing a destroyer more difficult, but the other team has to adjust too.  

Your team needs to kill the radar cruisers or drive them off.  You can't just rush into caps and torp everything in sight.  You have to plan your actions and get help from teammates.

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As someone who recently became a DD main, you have to add radar threats to your list of priorities. Either push them back, bait out their radar, or spot them so teammates can farm them.

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You can deal with radar, you just have to plan it. Don't just sit in smoke when you don't know that there are no radar ships in range. Actually you mostly shouldn't sit in smoke anyway. Be ready to dodge out and duck behind a rock for a bit. If a cruiser is behind an island using radar, they can't shoot you, and very often they will pop radar when no one else on their team is in a good position to shoot you either.

Smoke draws radar, and gives the cruiser an idea of where you are so they know where to position to get you in range, so overall it's better to use smoke a lot less often than you would have years ago. It's usually a lot better to just use your regular concealment, and have an escape route planed. You might need to nibble at the edges of a cap and leave it a few times now instead of just popping smoke and sitting there immune like we used to.

I find the new way a lot more fun, but I've never been exclusive to one ship type. 

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1 hour ago, entreri89 said:

I have returned to the game after a couple years of not playing. My favorite ships were destroyers. Radar is actually the dumbest thing I have ever seen. It basically makes playing DD no fun and unplayable. I cant even get into torpedo range at all. You know that radars cant actually see through islands right? Smoke is completely useless. I thought destroyers were supposed to be like stealthy scouts.You cant even do that anymore. I basically have to sit in the back half the game and wait for everyone to use all there radars.   Ive never posted before but radar pisses me off enough to post. I used to have a lot of fun playing destroyer but it looks like i have to switch to something else or just stop playing again. The whole play style and reason I liked playing destroyers is completely gone and ruined.  That crapis stupid.

Radar is only an issue when there is a lot of it.  1-2 radar ships arent that difficult to play around.  Learning how to bait out a radar use is a key skill.

Right now, I'd say DDs are probably in the best place they've been since the carrier rework went live 2 years ago.

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Radar? :Smile_veryhappy: You'll be "fun and engaged" by a lot more than radar.

image.png.1535030721a88cff897eeb967d39893e.png

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1 hour ago, entreri89 said:

I have returned to the game after a couple years of not playing. My favorite ships were destroyers. Radar is actually the dumbest thing I have ever seen. It basically makes playing DD no fun and unplayable. I cant even get into torpedo range at all. You know that radars cant actually see through islands right? Smoke is completely useless. I thought destroyers were supposed to be like stealthy scouts.You cant even do that anymore. I basically have to sit in the back half the game and wait for everyone to use all there radars.   Ive never posted before but radar pisses me off enough to post. I used to have a lot of fun playing destroyer but it looks like i have to switch to something else or just stop playing again. The whole play style and reason I liked playing destroyers is completely gone and ruined.  That crapis stupid.

Is this opinion based on the 2 DD games you have had at tier 9 or the 17 tier 8 DD games you have had?

 

IMHO you're not in a position to comment.  Radar is consumable that can be worked around.  No pun intended.

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Being gone for years means you need to relearn most things. Playing around radar is one such thing.

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Another example of a new player rushing up the lines. 

 

Play a few more games at 5 and 6.  Try some other nations, try some other ships.  Higher tiers are more competitive, which is not always the same as more fun.

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You realize I have more that 4 times the amount of games played than you do? I think you are in no position to comment on the amount of games played. It is based one my almost 300 games in Destroyers. The experience is objectively worse than it was two or 3 years ago.

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Radar is the least of problems how about a flying radar with rockets.  How about laser accurate BBs from 24km.   Cruisers are a dying class in the deadeye meta.  Radar sucksa but it can be played around.  There is no positioning you can do against flying radar.

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2 hours ago, entreri89 said:

I have returned to the game after a couple years of not playing. My favorite ships were destroyers. Radar is actually the dumbest thing I have ever seen. It basically makes playing DD no fun and unplayable. I cant even get into torpedo range at all. You know that radars cant actually see through islands right? Smoke is completely useless. I thought destroyers were supposed to be like stealthy scouts.You cant even do that anymore. I basically have to sit in the back half the game and wait for everyone to use all there radars.   Ive never posted before but radar pisses me off enough to post. I used to have a lot of fun playing destroyer but it looks like i have to switch to something else or just stop playing again. The whole play style and reason I liked playing destroyers is completely gone and ruined.  That crapis stupid.

When radar ships are present: don't immediately run into a cap. Wait until they or you spot them to determine your next move. Know the ranges and durations of each ship. Know the usual spots the radar ships go and take an angle to torp them and help yourself out.

Not unplayable just more difficult. Radar is easier to deal with than a CV, by the way.

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Left a few months ago over CV. Came back other day and now I am gone again. CV just ruin the game for me. They may be fine for others, but I just feel they make the game un-fun for me. 

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1 hour ago, entreri89 said:

You realize I have more that 4 times the amount of games played than you do? I think you are in no position to comment on the amount of games played. It is based one my almost 300 games in Destroyers. The experience is objectively worse than it was two or 3 years ago.

Radar adds to the game.  It's a really old mechanic, DDs players are used to it and have learned to play with the mechanic.  I get that it's new to you, but it really not the massive deal you are making it out to be.  You will learn what ships are likely to have it, what their ranges are and how to play DDs with it.  Give it some time and practice.

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19 minutes ago, USMC2145 said:

Left a few months ago over CV. Came back other day and now I am gone again. CV just ruin the game for me. They may be fine for others, but I just feel they make the game un-fun for me. 

Oh just wait... There is a test ship on the live server that is a battleship with CV torp bombers coming off the back. Wargaming has lost their minds. Literally lost any iota of sane rational thought they might have had to think that is what this game needs. So check this out....

2 CV and a division of 3 of those. Then you have the random whales with it in the same match. The planes will blot out the sun.

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It's a simple matter of learning which ships have radar (or might have it, or German Hydro), what the ranges of said radar are, and watching for the radar ships in question when they get spotted.

Best ones to spot them for you is your team's CV, he's most likely going to spot them before you or them get to the cap, allowing you to make an informed decision and not sail into a cap with 5 radar cruisers bearing down on it.

Next best thing is to note if radar ships have division mates. it's a fair bet that a Nagato that can be seen from orbit divisioned with an Atlanta or Belfast is probably heading to the same place as his division mates.

Last is seeing where they are when they fire or are otherwise spotted. This will have the least warning.

In all cases, never fully commit until you know where those Radar or German Hydro ships are. Always leave yourself an escape route.

Smoke is very useful, it is not a magical answer to everything. You aren't going to survive driving up in front of some reds, popping smoke, and waiting for the reds to drive up to you blind to eat a bunch of torps to the face. You will get flushed out with radar or hydro, and you will get shot to pieces. If the red CV is doing his job once you're out of the smoke he'll be on top of you and you will stay spotted so his teammates can kill you if he can't do it himself.

Never drive up in front of your own team, pop smoke then sit in it. It's a real jerk move in that you've just blinded your own team, that likely had just been firing their guns and are going to remain spotted regardless of the smoke. 

Smoke is a great decoy, drop smoke near the edge of a cap, and leave it. It will draw torpedoes, cause people to light off their radars, and otherwise react to the potential torpedo launching smoke cloud.

There's a lot of other things you can use smoke for, provided you understand it's limitations and how the enemy can counter it.

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16 minutes ago, Vekta408 said:

Oh just wait... There is a test ship on the live server that is a battleship with CV torp bombers coming off the back. Wargaming has lost their minds. Literally lost any iota of sane rational thought they might have had to think that is what this game needs. So check this out....

2 CV and a division of 3 of those. Then you have the random whales with it in the same match. The planes will blot out the sun.

Speaking of BBs, OP a little tip, 99% of the ships in the game that have radar are cruisers, so for the most part, if it's a BB or a DD, you are safe from radar.

Smalland and Black are the exceptions for DDs, they have radar.  Black is kind of rare and you don't see to many of them but Smalland is....everywhere.  If you smoke up in front of one, it's just going to light you up.  They have smoke too, so you can find yourself in a situation where you can't see them, but they can see you. They are the meta DD right now, beware of them.

The BB exception is the Missouri, which left the shop many moons ago and they are somewhat rare to actually run into.  I have one and it's fun to take out though, just because of that fact and many newish players don't know or remember that it's a BB....but it has radar.  I can't tell you the number of DDs that I have had do their DD thing and smoke up, only to find that I can suddenly see them, and I have 9 barrels of HE loaded.

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17 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

Smalland and Black are the exceptions for DDs, they have radar.  Black is kind of rare and you don't see to many of them but Smalland is....everywhere.  If you smoke up in front of one, it's just going to light you up.  They have smoke too, so you can find yourself in a situation where you can't see them, but they can see you. They are the meta DD right now, beware of them.

Orkan has radar too, as well as the odd Hsienyang/Yueyang running radar instead of smoke.  And Smaland does not have smoke.  Black does though.

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Radar may seem overpowered, especially for less experienced DD players. However, as you get better and learn more about how radar works in practice, you find that radar is not hard to work around. 

Only certain ships can equip radar, and almost all radar cruisers can be spotted without entering their detection range. In addition most radar cruisers stick to islands, making their positions predictable. As a DD, you can always outmaneuver a cruiser. 

Even if you get caught in radar, you can still juke shots as you run out of radar range or get behind an island. The classic WASD hacks works nicely assuming you are further than 8km away. 

1 hour ago, entreri89 said:

You realize I have more that 4 times the amount of games played than you do? I think you are in no position to comment on the amount of games played. It is based one my almost 300 games in Destroyers. The experience is objectively worse than it was two or 3 years ago.

I would disagree. DDs are very powerful right now, second only to CVs in terms of match impact. In fact, some DDs like the French DDs don't even care about radar. 

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1 hour ago, entreri89 said:

You realize I have more that 4 times the amount of games played than you do? I think you are in no position to comment on the amount of games played. It is based one my almost 300 games in Destroyers. The experience is objectively worse than it was two or 3 years ago.

The experience is objectively different than it was two or three years ago.  Whether or not it's worse is a subjective judgment.  It's definitely more challenging to do well in a DD than it used to be, but increasing the challenge does not make a game objectively worse.  Some people enjoy challenges and learning to overcome them - therefore, for them, a more challenging game is subjectively better.  If you don't enjoy the increased challenge, feel free to play another ship class.

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39 minutes ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

Radar may seem overpowered, especially for less experienced DD players. However, as you get better and learn more about how radar works in practice, you find that radar is not hard to work around. 

Only certain ships can equip radar, and almost all radar cruisers can be spotted without entering their detection range. In addition most radar cruisers stick to islands, making their positions predictable. As a DD, you can always outmaneuver a cruiser. 

Even if you get caught in radar, you can still juke shots as you run out of radar range or get behind an island. The classic WASD hacks works nicely assuming you are further than 8km away.

This is correct. Some additional advice for OP:

  • enable radar range for enemy ships in the minimap if you're having a hard time remembering what it is for all radar-equipped ships. Good idea to remember what the duration is too
  • bait out radar, for example by driving through a cap near a radar cruiser at full speed, by the time the radar is active you should already be going away at full speed, WASDing. Then return for a capture.

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7 hours ago, entreri89 said:

I have returned to the game after a couple years of not playing. My favorite ships were destroyers. Radar is actually the dumbest thing I have ever seen. It basically makes playing DD no fun and unplayable. I cant even get into torpedo range at all. You know that radars cant actually see through islands right? Smoke is completely useless. I thought destroyers were supposed to be like stealthy scouts.You cant even do that anymore. I basically have to sit in the back half the game and wait for everyone to use all there radars.   Ive never posted before but radar pisses me off enough to post. I used to have a lot of fun playing destroyer but it looks like i have to switch to something else or just stop playing again. The whole play style and reason I liked playing destroyers is completely gone and ruined.  That crapis stupid.

You're simply wrong. There isn't any issue with radar and DD's. You maybe need to position better and get better at map awareness. 

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Radar Boo Hoo.

Wawae'ing about Radar in game is non sequitur. We have been dealing with Radar as DD's for years in some cases. I run a game clock on the keyboard to determine cool down, I pay attention to distances from ships that possess radar (That means remembering which of them are such as the Petro) and also radar range of each Nation's ships. Then some Radar ships possess Hydro. So when the enemy radar quit working if there are no other Red Radars taking turns being active, you can close to a certain distance before launching torps.

If you had a human carrier in the game, you are going to get vultured to death. Planes for however long over your DD's head until you are sunk.

We had a Benham that tried to hide inside B base in Clan Battles last night. My Alaska B lit him up long enough to burn him at 5 km and inside smoke to the water line. Another teammate finished the kill after I was sunk. My opinion was DD was wasted trying to go too far forward too early. And got fished.

You want torps with longer range than radar ships. Don't bother trying to torp with crappy DD's with short ranged torps. All you are doing is being inside either the 12km or 10km of enemy radar who will know you are close by your torps going by then light you up until you are summarily destroyed. Bring friends as in Battleships on your team to sink the Radar ships first. Once they are cleared out of the way, then your team's DD force can now advance forward with your own cruisers and take everything.

Sometimes in battle you can be behind a very large rock snickering as a enemy wastes radar on you. You in some situations don't give a damn if you are being radared and will wait a minute or two to burn that off then continue to advance.

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Based on OP’s experience it looks like he steamed into a cap, smoked up and expected everything to be ok. Along came a radar cruiser (or DD or BB) and OP quickly get deleted. Sound about right?

If you don’t like radar then I recommend you stay down at tiers 4-6. But then you’ll be posting in a few days about planes perm-spotting you...

Radar and planes can be a pain in the behind for a DD player. Then on the other hand, a skilled DD operator can be a pain as well. 

Good luck with your game...

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