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I am seeking opinions on a new captain/ship build archetype for cruisers that has emerged from the captain skill rework. For those of you who don't already know, there is a bit of a fad build going around for some cruisers that goes against traditional wisdom for how to run a ship in the game in the name of boosting reload rate and damage output. There are some people running this kind of build on almost every cruiser line, although much like the over-hype with Dead Eye and battleships, playing this new style can take a ship right out of its ability to affect wins and losses in the name of damage farming. For those of you who don't already know what I am talking about, this new archetype is known as "Anti-Concealment".

The premise of Anti-Concealment is to always have the Top Grade Gunner skill engaged as long as any enemy ships are visible within the firing range of your main battery. To do this, you have to make your concealment bad. Really bad. Unfathomably bad. Holy crap, I can see that cruiser from orbit bad. This is done in three ways.

  1. 1) Take the skill "Heavy HE and SAP shells" as this not only provides a damage boost to the HE,
    • it also provides a concealment penalty on any cruiser with guns above 149mm.
  2. 2) Do not take Concealment Expert.
    • You want to be seen, and the four points will go elsewhere.
  3. 3) Do not take the concealment module in slot 5.
    • There are 2-3 better options if you are running anti-concealment, including going double rudder shift, taking the module that provides extra consumable time for engine boost and main battery reload boost, or even the UU for Henri IV.

 Once these three things are in place, you are left with a cruiser that could not sneak up on Helen Keller, but can rain down large amounts of HE or SAP damage at very long range very quickly.

I have already had some brain storming with some really good players about the pros and cons about this build, and concluded that with most cruiser lines in the big picture, it usually is not worth running this build. If you are a cruiser with radar, or any kind of smoke, your ability to affect cap presence is just too important to sacrifice in the name of damage farming, so American, Russian, British light, and Italian cruisers are a big no for this kind of build. Japanese cruisers are as stealthy as some destroyers, and with their low HP pool, it isn't worth sacrificing to this kind of build (Although Yoshino may be an exception). Germans and British heavies are almost interesting, except they have shorter gun range, and running this kind of build wastes their awesome hydro and ability to hunt destroyers with it, not to mention makes them even more vulnerable to Dead Eye in the current meta. This leaves only French cruisers, and they may be the champions of this unusual new build. They have long range, great speed, good turning, outstanding DPM, and really nave no cap presence to lose in the first place. They are the best cruisers at damage farming already, and this build may take them to another level.

The question is: Is it worth going over the top for damage farming in French cruisers, or is it better to stay more traditional to maintain the ability to drop off concealment from time to time? What are your opinions? Do any of you like running anti-concealment?

Edited by Shannon_Lindsey

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Its testing phase for a lot of ideas... Some crazy but thought out ones... If it survives the 6 month test... Then it stays in the game.. (the 6 month test is when people test out anything and everything.).. In the end, the population settles down to a conclusion, on what viable build to use naturally...

I wouldn't pay it any mind in the short term (because everyone is testing). In the long term, we'll have to wait and see.

Also, let me edit your paragraph...

15 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

The premise of Anti-Concealment is to always have the Top Grade Gunner skill engaged as long as any enemy ships are visible within the firing range of your main battery. To do this, you have to make your concealment bad. Really bad. Unfathomably bad. Holy crap, I can see that cruiser from orbit bad. This is done in three ways.

  1. 1) Take the skill "Heavy HE and AP shells" as this not only provides a damage boost to the HE,
    • it also provides a concealment penalty on any cruiser with guns above 149mm.
  2. 2) Do not take Concealment Expert.
    • You want to be seen, and the four points will go elsewhere.
  3. 3) Do not take the concealment module in slot 5.
    • There are 2-3 better options if you are running anti-concealment, including going double rudder shift, taking the module that provides extra consumable time for engine boost and main battery reload boost, or even the UU for Henri IV.

 Once these three things are in place, you are left with a cruiser that could not sneak up on Helen Keller, but can rain down large amounts of HE or SAP damage at very long range very quickly.

I wanted the recommendations and the reasons to look organized. Easy to view to the readers... Nothing crazy...

GL.

 

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16 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Its testing phase for a lot of ideas... Some crazy but thought out ones... If it survives the 6 month test... Then it stays in the game.. (the 6 month test is when people test out anything and everything.).. In the end, the population settles down to a conclusion, on what viable build to use naturally...

I wouldn't pay it any mind in the short term (because everyone is testing). In the long term, we'll have to wait and see.

Also, let me edit your paragraph...

I wanted the recommendations and the reasons to look organized. Easy to view to the readers... Nothing crazy...

GL.

 

Thank you for the paragraph edit. I went ahead and copied it, as I agree that it is an easier read that way. I like most of my captain builds, but I did reset the French cruisers right before patch because I am not sure if I want to commit to this. Also, many people would have laughed at our Yoshino discussion, because we concluded that there are at least 6 different ways to run Yoshino effectively.

Edited by Shannon_Lindsey

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It's called the lighthouse build.

Farming cruisers like HIV are best suited as it fits their playstyle. Utility cruisers like Des Moines don't use it as they need concealment to be effective.

You don't hunt DDs with your hydro at T10, even if you are Hindy. It's a defensive tool vs DDs, not an offensive one. If a DD gets surprised by your hydro with max conceal build of 12.6km, then he will get surprised by a lighthouse build. 

For HIV, if you can dodge shells then lighthouse is better. If you can't, then play a different ship that uses concealment. 

 

 

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Isn’t there a possibility of using this on the higher tier RM CA? Although they don’t have the fastest loading guns the extra damage output on already heavy hitting guns could have its advantages. As you have smoke, are a pretty fast moving ship and having already pretty good rudder shift this may be an option. Add to that you have smoke to enable disengagement and with the extra Capt slot for consumables you get the extra charge.

With Sansoneti (sp) you can also add to your already good range and possibly reload time also.

Havent put too much thought into this and certainly haven’t done any number crunching but was curious.

 

 

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The only real use I see for this is if you are playing Divs with trustworthy mates so you could reliably play your role of gun support. It could also be an interesting option for Coop. As a solo random player, no way... It is madness imo.

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3 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

Heavy HE and AP shells

Heavy HE and SAP Shells?

3 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

Germans and British heavies are almost interesting, except they have shorter gun range, and running this kind of build wastes their awesome hydro and ability to hunt destroyers with it, not to mention makes them even more vulnerable to Dead Eye in the current meta.

:Smile_amazed: German CAs all have gun ranges in excess of 17km and great ballistics. They are very effective at long range combat.

12 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

The only real use I see for this is if you are playing Divs with trustworthy mates so you could reliably play your role of gun support. It could also be an interesting option for Coop. As a solo random player, no way... It is madness imo.

I would generally agree with this, since the build forces you into a more passive play style. This is fine if you have teammates to rely on and can trust them to play the objectives, but in Randoms I’m not so sure.

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If a DD is dumb enough to venture into a German 6km Hydro or allow itself to be detected by a DD with hydro then it's REALLY dumb.

Concealment is everything in this game. With it no one sees you, no one sinks you.

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49 minutes ago, Bravo4zero said:

Isn’t there a possibility of using this on the higher tier RM CA? Although they don’t have the fastest loading guns the extra damage output on already heavy hitting guns could have its advantages. As you have smoke, are a pretty fast moving ship and having already pretty good rudder shift this may be an option. Add to that you have smoke to enable disengagement and with the extra Capt slot for consumables you get the extra charge.

With Sansoneti (sp) you can also add to your already good range and possibly reload time also.

Havent put too much thought into this and certainly haven’t done any number crunching but was curious.

 

 

I was experimenting with this during the free respec and seriously considered it until someone pointed out the importance of Italian cruisers helping cap manage.

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I thought about taking it on the Flint just so my detection range is longer than my gun range...

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2 hours ago, Swervenkill said:

I thought about taking it on the Flint just so my detection range is longer than my gun range...

You can't, because Top Grade Gunner concealment penalty is only for guns >149mm.  Since Flint's guns are 127mm you won't get the penalty. Even without the penalty it's not worth it since at a cost of 4 points it only takes your reload from 4.9 to 4.5 seconds.

Edit - concealment penalty is for heavy AP/SAP,  not Top Grade Gunner. So you could in fact go negative concealement. 

Edited by DouglasMacAwful

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Henri and Hindenburg can do this lighthouse build pretty effectively, from the few times I've run into those players in-game. Now, not an easy build, and you need to be proactive about dodging, but played right, you can enrage a lot of BaBBies

I think possibly feasible on Moskva and Petro, but not seeing either ship much in Random, so cannot say for sure.

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4 hours ago, xHeavy said:

If a DD is dumb enough to venture into a German 6km Hydro or allow itself to be detected by a DD with hydro then it's REALLY dumb.

Concealment is everything in this game. With it no one sees you, no one sinks you.

Sometimes the focus fire gets intense and Stealth can save you.

 

Also, dropping CSM1 means not having the accuracy penalty for ships shooting at you.  With ASM1, APRM2 (IX-X USN BBs), Dead Eye, and certain Legendaries giving a Dispersion Bonus, everything counts.

Slot 5: CSM -5% Dispersion Penalty to gunfire against you.

Camo:  -4% Dispersion Penalty to gunfire against you.

Camo + CSM1 can give a total 9% Dispersion Penalty to gunfire against you.

 

Bonus for your attackers:

Slot 3: ASM1 7% Dispersion Bonus.  This is what you can expect out of most ships.

Slot 6:  Tier IX-X USN BBs:  APRM2 10% Dispersion Bonus;  USN BBs do not have access to ASM1.

Slot 6:  Yamato Legendary 7% (A Yamato player can stack ASM1 + Legendary for a 14% Dispersion Bonus total, better than what IX-X USN BBs get at 10% max).

Dead Eye Trait:  10% Dispersion Bonus

 

Camo + CSM1 with the 9% Dispersion Penalty actually is better than the ASM1 Accuracy Bonus by 2%.  A BB with ASM1 + Dead Eye overcomes it by 9%.

USN BBs can overcome that by 1% via APRM2 at Tier IX-X.  If they had Dead Eye, they overcome it by 11%.

Yammie ASM1 + Legendary overcomes it by 5%.  With Dead Eye, she overcomes it by 15%.

 

Without CSM1 and relying on Camo alone:

Camo alone gets overwhelmed by ASM1 by 3%.  If the ASM1 BB had Dead Eye also, it's improved over it by a total of 13%.

USN BBs with APRM2 in Tier IX-X overwhelm camo by 6%.  If the APRM2 USN BB has Dead Eye also, it's even better by 16%.

Yammie ASM1 + Legendary overwhelms camo alone by 10%.  If Dead Eye is there, then it's by a whopping 20%.

 

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I use it on HIV and tested it out before they locked the free respec.  It actually makes the ship more playable after they trashed it with nerfs.  So I kept the build.

I also tried it out on Hindenberg.  It did okay, but I ended up  with a traditional concealment build.  Mostly, because it gave me two different ways of playing, even though they're different ships.

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